Minutemen

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
261

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I can only assume that you think every black person should have simply grabbed fire arms during the 50’s and 60’s and that would have ended things real quick.

by the way, wouldn’t it?
I’m willing to be there would have been alot fewer assholes getting away with lynching people, for one thing. Would have been a form of natural selection, and society would be better off.
[/quote]

JW,

Were you being serious when you wrote that? You think if blacks had taken up weapons that there would be less lynchings?

Taking up weapons would have been the worst thing possible, it would have fed the notion that blacks were a violent and dangerous group. Giving those violent racists more leeway in their killing of blacks. Maybe even making killing large groups/communities of blacks at the sametime acceptable.

The only natural selction I can see in that situation would have been the killing off of the weakest group. (blacks). Hopefully, I misunderstood you and you weren’t implying that that would be better for society.

262

[quote]Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Aleksandr wrote:
That is the point others are arguing. Why do other groups have to lobby government in order to get anything adjusted, while this group is allowed to relove the problem themselves?

If the minutemen were doing anything illegal, you’d have a point.

The Black Panthers were doing something illegal? Do tell.[/quote]

You have got to be kidding me. He is saying the panthers didn’t do anything illegal and you opposed them getting messed with. So you should hold the same position on the minutemen, yet you cherish the black panthers and think the minutemen suck. Whats the difference other than one’s a black group and one (you think) is all whites. So yet again, you take one sentince out of his whole post and respond to it out of context. How many times do I have to call you on this before you realise this is not good debating practice. ALA vroom, Sigh

V

263

[quote]BookerT wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I can only assume that you think every black person should have simply grabbed fire arms during the 50’s and 60’s and that would have ended things real quick.

by the way, wouldn’t it?
I’m willing to be there would have been alot fewer assholes getting away with lynching people, for one thing. Would have been a form of natural selection, and society would be better off.

JW,

Were you being serious when you wrote that? You think if blacks had taken up weapons that there would be less lynchings?

Taking up weapons would have been the worst thing possible, it would have fed the notion that blacks were a violent and dangerous group. Giving those violent racists more leeway in their killing of blacks. Maybe even making killing large groups/communities of blacks at the sametime acceptable.

The only natural selction I can see in that situation would have been the killing off of the weakest group. (blacks). Hopefully, I misunderstood you and you weren’t implying that that would be better for society.

[/quote]

Yet again more poor reading comprehension. He is saying that maybe some black folk would have killed a few white assholes and that my friend would be natural selection. If you were an asshole, you get plugged. How can you even read that to mean somthing else. Why are you guys trying so hard to paint JW and Rain as racist. Shit!

V

264

[quote]Vegita wrote:
You have got to be kidding me. He is saying the panthers didn’t do anything illegal and you opposed them getting messed with. So you should hold the same position on the minutemen, yet you cherish the black panthers and think the minutemen suck. Whats the difference other than one’s a black group and one (you think) is all whites. So yet again, you take one sentince out of his whole post and respond to it out of context. How many times do I have to call you on this before you realise this is not good debating practice. ALA vroom, Sigh

V[/quote]

I never gave my opinion of the Black Panthers. Therefore, your entire post here is nothing but assumption.

265

[quote]Vegita wrote:
Yet again more poor reading comprehension. He is saying that maybe some black folk would have killed a few white assholes and that my friend would be natural selection. If you were an asshole, you get plugged. How can you even read that to mean somthing else. Why are you guys trying so hard to paint JW and Rain as racist. Shit!

V[/quote]

You can’t be this dull. Booker T was right. If blacks had taken matters into their own hands, there would have been a nationwide labeling of all blacks as dangerous to society. It could have quite possibly led to mass killings of blacks in retaliation. Do you even realize how rampant racism was at that time? I can’t believe you grew up in the same country I did.

266

[quote]Vegita wrote:
BookerT wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I can only assume that you think every black person should have simply grabbed fire arms during the 50’s and 60’s and that would have ended things real quick.

by the way, wouldn’t it?
I’m willing to be there would have been alot fewer assholes getting away with lynching people, for one thing. Would have been a form of natural selection, and society would be better off.

JW,

Were you being serious when you wrote that? You think if blacks had taken up weapons that there would be less lynchings?

Taking up weapons would have been the worst thing possible, it would have fed the notion that blacks were a violent and dangerous group. Giving those violent racists more leeway in their killing of blacks. Maybe even making killing large groups/communities of blacks at the sametime acceptable.

The only natural selction I can see in that situation would have been the killing off of the weakest group. (blacks). Hopefully, I misunderstood you and you weren’t implying that that would be better for society.

Yet again more poor reading comprehension. He is saying that maybe some black folk would have killed a few white assholes and that my friend would be natural selection. If you were an asshole, you get plugged. How can you even read that to mean somthing else. Why are you guys trying so hard to paint JW and Rain as racist. Shit!

V[/quote]

This, ‘my friend’ is NOT natural selection.

267

[quote]Vegita wrote:
Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Aleksandr wrote:
That is the point others are arguing. Why do other groups have to lobby government in order to get anything adjusted, while this group is allowed to relove the problem themselves?

If the minutemen were doing anything illegal, you’d have a point.

The Black Panthers were doing something illegal? Do tell.

You have got to be kidding me. He is saying the panthers didn’t do anything illegal and you opposed them getting messed with. So you should hold the same position on the minutemen, yet you cherish the black panthers and think the minutemen suck. Whats the difference other than one’s a black group and one (you think) is all whites. So yet again, you take one sentince out of his whole post and respond to it out of context. How many times do I have to call you on this before you realise this is not good debating practice. ALA vroom, Sigh

V[/quote]

Thanks vegita -

268

[quote]Vegita wrote:

Yet again more poor reading comprehension. He is saying that maybe some black folk would have killed a few white assholes and that my friend would be natural selection. If you were an asshole, you get plugged. How can you even read that to mean somthing else. Why are you guys trying so hard to paint JW and Rain as racist. Shit!

V[/quote]

  1. I was not calling JW racist or implying it, because I don’t know him and wouldn’t judge him based on a few sentences. What I was asking him was to clarify his response and that he might not have thought his hypothetical through all the way. (This is a discussion and I thought the point was to share your views and hopefully learn some new things? That doesn’t work unless you ask questions and try to understand someone else’s viewpoint)

  2. He stated that if a few black people shot the assholes who were lynching people then their might be less lynchings. I say that if a black man in 1950 went and killed one of these assholes that that would lead to even more violence against blacks (more lynchings.) A black man killing a white man back then would have further fueled the notion that blacks were a threat to them and their families. Which in some people’s minds back then would have justified killing more black people.

If you want to disagree with that fine, but don’t claim that I was calling someone racist when I was not.

269

[quote]Professor X wrote:
You can’t be this dull. Booker T was right. If blacks had taken matters into their own hands, there would have been a nationwide labeling of all blacks as dangerous to society. It could have quite possibly led to mass killings of blacks in retaliation. Do you even realize how rampant racism was at that time? I can’t believe you grew up in the same country I did. [/quote]

How hard is it to offer any proof that the minutemen did anything illegal? This is the fourth time I’ve asked for proof of illegality wrt the minutemen.

Is it that hard to put some proof behind your statement?

Four times - three different individuals, and crickets chirp waiting for an answer.

270

Veg, oh bongmaster, what the hell are you doing invoking my name in a disparaging way in this thread when I’ve kept myself out of it?

WTF did I do?

Referring to illegal immigrants from Mexico as an “infestation” implies they are some type of bug infestation. Is that appropriate? No. Does it sound like racism? Yes.

Do you feel insulted because someone thinks something you said sounded racist? Then stop saying it unless you want to sound like a racist fuck.

Everyone knows and agrees that there are millions of illegal immigrants and that all kinds of problems are caused. Other than that, I can see both sides of this issue.

There are dangers inherent with having people who are motivated enough to go hunt down illegal immigrants hunting down illegal immigrants. That is clear.

At the same time, they too are innocent until proven guilty. If, surprisingly, they are able to act professionally and not draw fuckups into their posse, then they might actually make themselves feel good if nothing else.

I would say, if you are motivated enough to spend your spare time hunting down illegal immigrants, I hope you are motivated enough to write to your congressman and/or other representatives as well. If one sounds like fun and the other doesn’t, look into your motives.

271

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Vegita wrote:
You have got to be kidding me. He is saying the panthers didn’t do anything illegal and you opposed them getting messed with. So you should hold the same position on the minutemen, yet you cherish the black panthers and think the minutemen suck. Whats the difference other than one’s a black group and one (you think) is all whites. So yet again, you take one sentince out of his whole post and respond to it out of context. How many times do I have to call you on this before you realise this is not good debating practice. ALA vroom, Sigh

V

I never gave my opinion of the Black Panthers. Therefore, your entire post here is nothing but assumption. [/quote]

Then why bring them into the conversation to begin with? I don’t see where rain mentioned them, so again you come in with a left feild comment instead of answering his question. Another of Profx tacticts revealed, answer a question with another question. Why not just answer him straight up, I just don’t get how you communicate man, why all the misdirection and sidestepping?

V

272

Vroomster, I just wanted to let out a frustrated “sigh” but thought it would be respectful to give credit to the T-Nation resident sigher. :wink:

273

Wow - has this thread degenerated. Please whether your on the right or left side of this debate, stick with facts and cease the personal attacks. As I said earlier its not a left or right issue though, its an issue about laws. We have to get our government to enforce border security in a sane way (in line with the Constitution) while allowing hard working immigrants to make a life for themselves in this country. Why is this so hard to understand?? I think that is the whole point of the Minutemen protest, because after so many days they are going to Washington. They want national media attention on this issue to force our politicans to come up with a solution rather than just ignoring it.

274

[quote]vroom wrote:
something without principle…
[/quote]

Thank God! Now this is all cleared up.

275

Hmm…

276

Veg, sorry man, I’ve been under attack in another thread, my bad.

277

[quote]vroom wrote:
Veg, oh bongmaster, what the hell are you doing invoking my name in a disparaging way in this thread when I’ve kept myself out of it?

WTF did I do?

Referring to illegal immigrants from Mexico as an “infestation” implies they are some type of bug infestation. Is that appropriate? No. Does it sound like racism? Yes.

Do you feel insulted because someone thinks something you said sounded racist? Then stop saying it unless you want to sound like a racist fuck.

Everyone knows and agrees that there are millions of illegal immigrants and that all kinds of problems are caused. Other than that, I can see both sides of this issue.

There are dangers inherent with having people who are motivated enough to go hunt down illegal immigrants hunting down illegal immigrants. That is clear.

At the same time, they too are innocent until proven guilty. If, surprisingly, they are able to act professionally and not draw fuckups into their posse, then they might actually make themselves feel good if nothing else.

I would say, if you are motivated enough to spend your spare time hunting down illegal immigrants, I hope you are motivated enough to write to your congressman and/or other representatives as well. If one sounds like fun and the other doesn’t, look into your motives.[/quote]

They are not ‘hunting down’ the illegals. They are standing watch over the border to HELP prevent more illegal crossings.

Innocent until proven guilty? What the hell does that refer to.

It would suprise you if they could act professional.

Sounds like fun.

I don’t get the gist of your post. At one time you both agree and disagree, but all of your remarks would definately put you on one particular side of the argument.

Maybe you were drawn into it by a side remark, but you have made your opinion painfully obvious.

If I were form that area, I would be proud to take my turn standing watch over my and my neighbors land. As far as I can see they have done not one thing illegal or unjust.

The original thread idea was what do you think about it. Quite frankly, I’m glad you are not a neighbor of mine that I may have to depend on. These people are providing a valuable, and hopefully temporary service to one another and our country. Lets not assume trouble is where it has not yet been seen.

278

my understanding from an admittedly cursory reading over of the history of that time etc is that the biggest problem with the Black Panthers was alliances with communist agents from Russia and Cuba–and a fear they were going to attempt to overthrow the government.

Like I said, I don’t know much about this–so feel free to teach me.

Or, better yet, give me some decent web references and I’ll go read it myself.
But I wasn’t just talking about the Panthers–I was thinking of a group of a dozen black men in some little town in Mississippi, say.

[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
JW, your other posts, I couldn’t make sense of (sorry). When black people armed themselves to protect their community from abuse (the Black Panther Party for Seld-Defense)the FBI hunted them down, imorisoned some leaders on false charges, while others were mysterously killed. If the federal government took this stance on the Panthers, it is only equitable that the same stance be taken with the minutemen, isn’t it?

That is the point others are arguing. Why do other groups have to lobby government in order to get anything adjusted, while this group is allowed to relove the problem themselves? It does appear unfair, and this unfairness is typical. In a way, it reminds me when, a few years back, that man was dragged to death by racists in Jasper, Texas and the city gave the klan (a known terrorist group) a permit to rally, but denied the New Black Panthers the permit to conduct a counter-rally, to let the people of the town know they are being protected.

When these types of injustices are so available in people’s memories, they are going to perceive future procedural injustices of the type as racist as well.
Joe Weider wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I can only assume that you think every black person should have simply grabbed fire arms during the 50’s and 60’s and that would have ended things real quick.

by the way, wouldn’t it?
I’m willing to be there would have been alot fewer assholes getting away with lynching people, for one thing. Would have been a form of natural selection, and society would be better off.

[/quote]

279

[quote]BookerT wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I can only assume that you think every black person should have simply grabbed fire arms during the 50’s and 60’s and that would have ended things real quick.

by the way, wouldn’t it?
I’m willing to be there would have been alot fewer assholes getting away with lynching people, for one thing. Would have been a form of natural selection, and society would be better off.

JW,

Were you being serious when you wrote that? You think if blacks had taken up weapons that there would be less lynchings?

Taking up weapons would have been the worst thing possible, it would have fed the notion that blacks were a violent and dangerous group. Giving those violent racists more leeway in their killing of blacks. Maybe even making killing large groups/communities of blacks at the sametime acceptable.

The only natural selction I can see in that situation would have been the killing off of the weakest group. (blacks). Hopefully, I misunderstood you and you weren’t implying that that would be better for society.

[/quote]

Well, first of all I do think if people were able to protect themselves it would be better for everyone.

The natural selection I was speaking of was the killing off of the dumbest boldest most racist assholes. That would be better for society.
In case you still don’t have a clear picture, I’m saying that black people armed against the white people could have helped the cause of natural selection.

280

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Yet again more poor reading comprehension. He is saying that maybe some black folk would have killed a few white assholes and that my friend would be natural selection. If you were an asshole, you get plugged. How can you even read that to mean somthing else. Why are you guys trying so hard to paint JW and Rain as racist. Shit!

V

You can’t be this dull. Booker T was right. If blacks had taken matters into their own hands, there would have been a nationwide labeling of all blacks as dangerous to society. It could have quite possibly led to mass killings of blacks in retaliation. Do you even realize how rampant racism was at that time? I can’t believe you grew up in the same country I did. [/quote]

But, ProfX, according to you and others, black people are labeled that way NOW and a lot of poor black people had to be lynched and burned along the way.

So what’s changed? According to you?

As for the rest of your comments…I guess I just grew up in a better more enlightened part of the country than you did.

One where we learned to respect what people are and how they are, and not stupid shit like the color of their skin or the shape of their eyes.