[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Where is the Million Republican March? Why aren’t protests the order of the day and not support of a group of guys that no one really knows, aside from random interviews, with guns? It would seem like the energy is being thrown into the wrong place.
Partisan and racist? geez.
[/quote]
What? What about this was racist? You are FOR not protesting this? You are against doing what every other group in this country has had to do throughout history to see change in government? Isn’t THAT racist and elitist? Why are you above doing what blacks have had to do in the past? Why are you above doing what nearly every other group that has been under-represented has had to do throughout history? But I am racist? This was the dumbest thing you’ve written in this thread. You are for random people grabbing guns and heading for the border to stop some foreigners but against doing things the “right way”? I can only assume that you think every black person should have simply grabbed fire arms during the 50’s and 60’s and that would have ended things real quick.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
I would hope that I could sterr clear of making baseless assumptions about someone I don’t even know, and a culture of which I completely ignorant.[/quote]
So, now you switch to misspelled sarcastic remarks devoid of any content? Bummer. And here was I expecting wit. But I can play that game too. Except for the bad spelling. So there.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
I thought Stanford didn’t believe in grades. Or was that Berkely? Or did they change that ‘grades are a bad thing’ policy?[/quote]
Now that’s just silly. You have a very prolific behind, don’t you rainjack?
It’s B-E-R-K-E-L-E-Y. And, so we’re clear, it does have grades:
[quote]nopal_juventus wrote:
Immigrants did the labor before illegal immigrants did. The only thing that changed were the specific immigrants that did it. Chinese and japanese immigrants started up the whole fruit/vegetable business.
[/quote]
Yes, but they were legal imagrants, and became Americians. I am not against immagration in general, I am against illegal immagration.
What I meant to say was that the price of production of sales went up when minimum wage went up to such high levels. Not that they went up in general. My bad.
Could I see these other studies?
And I haven’t? I happen to live on a farm and work it for free. No I wouldn’t do it for a living, and I was not speaking to my self either. Why is that that when ever someone like me makes this point, the first thing people like you say is “you wouldn’t do the labor, would you”? Of course I wouldn’t, I am qualified and better suited to do other jobs that pay more. What I said is that there are many UNDER qualified people in our country who can do the labor. There are some people in our society who can’t function well. Instead of doing the intence labor like they used do (because they couldn’t do anything else), they now get unemployment and welfare. If it wasn’t so easy to get that stuff, they would do the labor, as that would be the only thing they could do.
What we have are a high minimum wage, forcing employers who higher legaly, to only higher people they can afford. While I would not do the work, there are plenty of people who can/would, out of necesaty.
The reason legal (and I stress legal)immagrants and citizens did the work before is because they didn’t have a choice. Now instead of legals being forced to do it, it is illegals. The problem here is that a lot of the people who made up their share by doing manual labor, don’t anymore.
Using illegals or legals may seem a bit harsh. However the option that prevents illegals from doing the work instead would be the better of the two.
We used to have a “you work or you die” mentality in our country. In general people used to be satisfied with very little, just having there health and a job. No we have all these social programs and all kinds of free benafits. Now, so many Americians are too content to get more money for doing less.
Here I was not adressing the costs in general. I was addressing that such a smaller part of the pouplation represented a larger part of the prison population.
As for costs, let me get a little more detailed. If an illegal rapes and kills a women, and then say it costs 500 a month to keep him locked up, this 500 dollars a month doesn’t account for the original crime. Again, some where around 15-30% of the prison population is illegals. 15% of the Americian population are not illegals.
yes yes, good and all. I was adressing illegals in prison, not prisoners in general.
You have propbably made about a dozen claims, and only linked to about three studies, one of which I will dispute in a moment.
I don’t want to assert that they pay no taxes, what I am trying to argue is that they don’t pay there fair share. At least for what they cost our econamy.
As for hospitals, I have seen at least two dozen nurses and doctors interviewd and a couple programs looking into the issue. They all said the same thing, it was illegals, who they could not track because they had no ID. If this is not the case, then can you find a reason as to why over a dozen ER and a couple hospitals have closed down in the past few years?
Even not addressing hopitals closing down. If an illegal goes and gets 500-1000 dallors worth of emergancy medical treatment that he does not have inssurance for or pay for himself, then that MUST be factored in for there total cost. If the bring there kids in and their kids use our school system, then that must be factored in to there costs. When tuition for keeping a kid in a public school a year can be anywheer from 3,000 - 10,000 dollars (depending on state, location, and district). If an illegal gets 1,000-2,000 dollars in medical treatment which he didn’t pay for in a year, and has 2-4 kids in school which he doesn’t pay for, then you easily have them costing 4000-10,000, just to keep one worker here. They are not using just a few of our seveces, in fact they using probably a couple dozen at least. Most of these imagrents have no medical insurance what so ever. Medical care is by and large VERY spendy. We can’t afford to pay thousands of dallors medical care for each immagrent living here. A few 2,000 dollar trips to an ER in one year can easily set back the cost of keeping an illegal here by 2-3 years. Multiply this by hundereds and thousands of times.
Yes, things LIKE cops. It would not have to be cops specificly either. What this pamplet can prove to me is that missmanaged funds in general can do this. Yet this pamplet can not dispute that it is possable to higher more cops while keeping a balanced budget. They just sight mismanaged funds as being the problem, and then cite police as one possable area they might spend these funds. My mian problem with this pamplet is it makes the police look bad, when in fact it is bad money managment that is to blame. The same would be true if they hired more firefighters then they needed, waisted funds. Explain to me why they pick POLICE for missmanaged funds, when the same can be said for roads, utilaties, social services, ect? Typical police bashing if you ask me.
Poverty from my observation is only caused by city funds when the city does things like drive buisness out of the neiborhood by high taxes. Poverty is not addressed by city funds, it is addressed by small and large buisnesses highering.
Let me word it a bit differently. Southern california has a large illegal population, and a larger crime rate then northern California. It is almost like two differnt states once you get further south. Lets say for example 80% of the crime happens in southern California, and 20% in northern. If you combine the two, you have one firgure bluring the other. Instead of compareing California to the other states, how about comparing differnt districts within California? Doing a state wide stat does not account for crime-illegal ratio. California has one of the highest illegal populations, but it also has a very high legal populations.
Doing a stat ctrime per 10,000 citezens is missleading. Do it this way.
[quote]
<----L.A. crime rate. LA has traditionally been ‘infested’ with illegals (to borrow from rainjack’s vocabulary), yet it experiences a steady decrease in both violent and property crime rate. Gee willickers, but the illegals are supposed to be crazy gangbangers. This is the same stereotype that puts so many innocent ethnic minorities behind bars (mostly blacks and latinos).[/quote]
First, again, if you have say an influx of legals, then that would make the average crime rate go down. Even if the crim rate among illegals stayed the same. As for as innocent blacks and such. What do you make of people liek Bill Cosby saying things like black people bring it on them selves? To quote Bill Cosby
“a 70% pregnancey rate among black teenage girls, you just can’t blame white people on that”
“I used to wonder why these kids talked they way they did, untill I meet their parents. Who it is, what you be, is you ain’t! You can;t become a doctor or a lawer speaking like that”
“These people will spend 500 dollars to buy there kids sneakers, and they won’t spend 200 dollars on phonics”
“Our people had rocks thrown at them because they protested, and for what, this?”
When people liek Bill Cosby come out and say stuff like that, you have a problem.
How do you respond to Bill Cosby saying stuff like this? And don’t give me the “it doesn’t just apply to black people”. Yes, these can apply to white people. He has even said that all people need to do a better job of raising there kids, white or black. However, when he first started making comments like this he addressed it to black people specificly, speaking at conventions for black people. And more specificly, I listend to him say
“You can’t just blame white people for that”
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
wow…a commie nut luv fest.
AND
We don’t need a million republican march. We’ve had it every Nov. for the last few years.
You guys keep getting kicked further back.
Smarten up.
Interesting. Your attempt to deregate those with whom you disagree does not go unnoticed. However, you should know that using diminuitive and insulting tones when arguing a point makes you look unprepared, to say the least. Simply put, you sound like you’ve got nothing left to say. So why don’t you try not saying anything?
As for not needing a million republican march, good! That means you are happy with how the government is handling things; stop complaining. If the government is doing a good job, there is no problem, and thus no action needs to be taken. Clearly, that contradicts what you guys have been saying, so you are either lying now, or you were lying then. Which is it? What is your motivation? Is it party loyalty, or do you just HAVE to try to “win”. Because as i see it, everyone so far has agreed that governmental inaction and bad immigration policies are to blame. Why do you diverge from the rest of the people with whome you seem to share opinions?[/quote]
why is it that when I sarcastically say “commie nut luv fest” I’m denegrating those with whom I disagree but when Professor X calls people he disagrees with racists or bigots etc he’s hailed by you as a champion, complete with the accompanying chest bumps and high fives?
And, by the way, don’t think I didn’t notice your cuteness: first, untrained people shouldn’t be doing the governments job blah blah, you and X and hspdr say the government is the best equipped to handle it, we should write letters and lobby blah blah…yet it’s something you try and attack me for?
Your hypocrisy, sir, knows no bounds, I’m afraid.
[quote]Al Shades wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
actually, I think the question of the day is what do you do with that other .1 of banana.
Throw it away, because it’s the bad part. Only a moron or a slob would callously disregard tenths of food portions when utilizing a tracking program that takes them fully into account. But hey, possessing a physique which makes it apparent that you train with weights - rather than sitting on the coach and eating all day - ain’t for everybody!
Now go whip the dead horse some more, and stuff your face with some BBQ while you’re at it. [/quote]
Little Al, get this straight.
I use your weight to curl with.
I warm up for squats with more than you weigh.
So please don’t start with the that whole thing, not here. That may well work on a gaming site, but here you’re playing with men.
And, btw, I’ve seen your pictures remember. You look like a skinny guy with low bodyfat. You don’t look like you train with weights.
Sorry.
But I do like pulled pork…no bread though…with the hot sauce and some good cole slaw…thanks for the thought, pal!
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
wow…a commie nut luv fest.
AND
We don’t need a million republican march. We’ve had it every Nov. for the last few years.
You guys keep getting kicked further back.
Smarten up.
Interesting. Your attempt to deregate those with whom you disagree does not go unnoticed. However, you should know that using diminuitive and insulting tones when arguing a point makes you look unprepared, to say the least. Simply put, you sound like you’ve got nothing left to say. So why don’t you try not saying anything?
As for not needing a million republican march, good! That means you are happy with how the government is handling things; stop complaining. If the government is doing a good job, there is no problem, and thus no action needs to be taken. Clearly, that contradicts what you guys have been saying, so you are either lying now, or you were lying then. Which is it? What is your motivation? Is it party loyalty, or do you just HAVE to try to “win”. Because as i see it, everyone so far has agreed that governmental inaction and bad immigration policies are to blame. Why do you diverge from the rest of the people with whome you seem to share opinions?[/quote]
besides, we don’t have time for symbolic stupidity, we’re too busy being the engines that make this country work–we work and contribute so that these illegals can have some welfare to suck dry.
Did you and PX start floppin’ around going “don’t these people have JOBS???” during Calypso Louie’s million man march that turned out to be a little short?
Or is it okay for black people to blow off work for stuff they believe in, but not (and you’re assuming) white?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I can only assume that you think every black person should have simply grabbed fire arms during the 50’s and 60’s and that would have ended things real quick.
[/quote]
by the way, wouldn’t it?
I’m willing to be there would have been alot fewer assholes getting away with lynching people, for one thing. Would have been a form of natural selection, and society would be better off.
[quote]hspder wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I would hope that I could sterr clear of making baseless assumptions about someone I don’t even know, and a culture of which I completely ignorant.
So, now you switch to misspelled sarcastic remarks devoid of any content? Bummer. And here was I expecting wit. But I can play that game too. Except for the bad spelling. So there.
rainjack wrote:
I thought Stanford didn’t believe in grades. Or was that Berkely? Or did they change that ‘grades are a bad thing’ policy?
Now that’s just silly. You have a very prolific behind, don’t you rainjack?
It’s B-E-R-K-E-L-E-Y. And, so we’re clear, it does have grades:
yeah, but your grades are given out a little differently.
Ohhh…I like you. I want you to like me…here’s an A.
It’s crap.
I had a professor who’d gone through Berkeley…BA, MA, PhD.
We talked.
And if we’re going to start making fun of everyone’s typos as a way to drag them down or pretend they aren’t smart, you’d better be sure and triple check all your own posts from now on…cause that’s a pretty small way to be.
I bet you don’t correct your students like that…cause you wouldn’t want to damage their poor psyche…
[quote]hspder wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I thought Stanford didn’t believe in grades. Or was that Berkely? Or did they change that ‘grades are a bad thing’ policy?
It’s B-E-R-K-E-L-E-Y. And, so we’re clear, it does have grades:
I guess I found a nerve. Who knew misspelling B-E-R-K-E-L-E-Y would send you into such a tizzy. Who knew not giving a shit how, or where, or what the damn school even teaches was so criminal to you?
That’s a handy piece of information to have.
Now about your anti-bubbism…you’ve yet to confirm or deny anything. Just so you know - I’m not so unemployed and ignorant as to be enticed off point by your spinning of yarns, or attacks on my ignorance of California’s college grading policies.
Oooops - or should that be U-N-I-V-E-R-S-I-T-I-E-S?
Neither as long as the “Americans” you speak of are average people who are not trained professionally for that job carrying guns. The simple fact that I had to explain that to you again makes me wonder about your ability to actually comprehend what is written.
[/quote]
So you did actually mean neither… well the reason I couldn’t comprehend it is because it is gonna be one or the other for a pretty long time. So you are in the same boat with hspdr that we should wait and go through the motions and change the system so it works better? How about we just draw a bunch of attention to it right now and make sombody fix it. Why wait when there is such a simpler solution.
You guys claim these people are circumventing the system to get something they want done. Incorrect, they are working within the framework of the constitution, i.e. not doing anything illegal, and are getting a result in which we all want, wich is to stop or slow illegal immigration. Damn you guys are illogical.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
What? What about this was racist? You are FOR not protesting this? You are against doing what every other group in this country has had to do throughout history to see change in government? [/quote]
See, Prof? You are making assumptions you know nothing about. I don’t know why I continue you try and call attention to the fact the you have made biased assumption after biased assumption.
No - what you have been doing throughout this thread is racist and elitist. And I’ve said as much everytime you do it.
Nice attempt at trying to co-opt hspder’s idea. You produce proof that the minutemen HAVEN’T gone through the proper channels, haven’t exhausted all other measures, and you might have a point. Short of that, you are airing your ignorance for all to see.
Wasn’t MalcomX fed up with the game? But he had to be wrong, right? You wouldn’t want a bubba protecting his property by ‘any means necessary’ would you? Evidently not.
[quote]But I am racist?
[/quote]
You are an anti-bubbite. I don’t know if it is racist, or not. But I do know it is prejudice, inspired by ignorance.
JW, your other posts, I couldn’t make sense of (sorry). When black people armed themselves to protect their community from abuse (the Black Panther Party for Seld-Defense)the FBI hunted them down, imorisoned some leaders on false charges, while others were mysterously killed. If the federal government took this stance on the Panthers, it is only equitable that the same stance be taken with the minutemen, isn’t it?
That is the point others are arguing. Why do other groups have to lobby government in order to get anything adjusted, while this group is allowed to relove the problem themselves? It does appear unfair, and this unfairness is typical. In a way, it reminds me when, a few years back, that man was dragged to death by racists in Jasper, Texas and the city gave the klan (a known terrorist group) a permit to rally, but denied the New Black Panthers the permit to conduct a counter-rally, to let the people of the town know they are being protected.
When these types of injustices are so available in people’s memories, they are going to perceive future procedural injustices of the type as racist as well.
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I can only assume that you think every black person should have simply grabbed fire arms during the 50’s and 60’s and that would have ended things real quick.
by the way, wouldn’t it?
I’m willing to be there would have been alot fewer assholes getting away with lynching people, for one thing. Would have been a form of natural selection, and society would be better off.
[/quote]
You are an anti-bubbite. I don’t know if it is racist, or not. But I do know it is prejudice, inspired by ignorance.
[/quote]
An anti-bubbite? You are the only one making up names and racial slurs. I guess you have to in order to paint what I am saying in a negative light. Again, I guess it would be very difficult if you actually simply quoted what was being said. This thread has proven to go no where so unless someone with more to offer than “you and the conservative posse” jumps in, I am done with it. The conversation has dulled from being even slightly mentally stimulating.
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
JW, your other posts, I couldn’t make sense of (sorry). When black people armed themselves to protect their community from abuse (the Black Panther Party for Seld-Defense)the FBI hunted them down, imorisoned some leaders on false charges, while others were mysterously killed. If the federal government took this stance on the Panthers, it is only equitable that the same stance be taken with the minutemen, isn’t it?
That is the point others are arguing. Why do other groups have to lobby government in order to get anything adjusted, while this group is allowed to relove the problem themselves? It does appear unfair, and this unfairness is typical. In a way, it reminds me when, a few years back, that man was dragged to death by racists in Jasper, Texas and the city gave the klan (a known terrorist group) a permit to rally, but denied the New Black Panthers the permit to conduct a counter-rally, to let the people of the town know they are being protected.
When these types of injustices are so available in people’s memories, they are going to perceive future procedural injustices of the type as racist as well.
[/quote]
Well, I was done except for saying that it is unbelievable that this needed to be explained to anyone born in the 20th century. Carry on.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Aleksandr wrote:
JW, your other posts, I couldn’t make sense of (sorry). When black people armed themselves to protect their community from abuse (the Black Panther Party for Seld-Defense)the FBI hunted them down, imorisoned some leaders on false charges, while others were mysterously killed. If the federal government took this stance on the Panthers, it is only equitable that the same stance be taken with the minutemen, isn’t it?
That is the point others are arguing. Why do other groups have to lobby government in order to get anything adjusted, while this group is allowed to relove the problem themselves? It does appear unfair, and this unfairness is typical. In a way, it reminds me when, a few years back, that man was dragged to death by racists in Jasper, Texas and the city gave the klan (a known terrorist group) a permit to rally, but denied the New Black Panthers the permit to conduct a counter-rally, to let the people of the town know they are being protected.
When these types of injustices are so available in people’s memories, they are going to perceive future procedural injustices of the type as racist as well.
Well, I was done except for saying that it is unbelievable that this needed to be explained to anyone born in the 21st century. Carry on.[/quote]
So two wrongs make a right? this argument sounds like it would be made by a second grader. “well timmy didn’t get yelled at for chewing gum in clas last week” Wrong is wrong and I don’t agree with some of the things that have happened to black groups or other minorities. Those are obvious cases of discrimination. But so is your position towards what is happening today with the minutemen. You cant get out from under this one, you claim unfair treatment in the past, and you want equal unfair treatment now. That my friends is racism, or at least discriminatory.
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
That is the point others are arguing. Why do other groups have to lobby government in order to get anything adjusted, while this group is allowed to relove the problem themselves? [/quote]
If the minutemen were doing anything illegal, you’d have a point. But they are operating within the law. I’ll offer you the same type of challenge that I offered the Prof, and hspder (both of whom have ducked the challenge completly): You prove that the minutemen have broken a law. You prove that they are taking the law into their own hands, or circumventing the law and I wil agree with you. Short of that, you should just take a seat over next to Prof and hspder.
But to equate the minutemen with the racist killers? And to have ProfX agree with you? I get called out on making up words, yet you get praise for making up parallels.
You guys really need to get some skirts if this cheerleading session goes much further.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Aleksandr wrote:
That is the point others are arguing. Why do other groups have to lobby government in order to get anything adjusted, while this group is allowed to relove the problem themselves?
If the minutemen were doing anything illegal, you’d have a point.[/quote]
The Black Panthers were doing something illegal? Do tell.