These illegal immigrants are breaking our laws by illegally entering this country; they should be treated as criminals. They should all be jailed up and sent back.
The minutemen are performing a job that our Government isn?t doing.
I live in Phoenix AZ, the illegals are getting out of hand, there everywhere, and bringing good respectable areas down to filthy crime infested areas.
The illegals are like a termite infestation.
[quote]Vegita wrote:
No they are frustrated with all the dodging and twisting you’re doing. Which besides the straw man love orgy you have going on is the second most annoying posting principle you hold to. I ask you 3 or 4 simple questions and then even answer it for you and you go off on a tangent and never adress what my points were.[/quote]
You are delusional. Here is you last post:
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Prof X, I hate to Call BS but your very first sentance, states that the minute men need to get out of the way. What are they in the way of other than illegal immigrants? Please explain to me what me having a narrow world vier has to do with me posting about how poorly you and other communicate? [/quote]
And here was my response:
[quote]
Anyone drawn to do this for free makes me seriously wonder about the chracter of the person. Don’t these people have jobs? How many doctors, lawyers, or nurses would sit in a truck at the border looking for runaways from Mexico? I think this has the potential to draw out people with less than appropriate agendas. For some reason, you trust these people. I really have to wonder why. These are not professionals (as far as trained security). They are not hired security. If anything, they come across as militia members looking for good PR.
You seem to be unable to understand that point of view. I don’t know why. There is only one reason why I would have to explain this in the most elementary of terms and that must be YOUR level of understanding, not mine. [/quote]
How, pray tell, is this avoiding anything you asked? How is it twisting anything you asked? I have that opinion. That isn’t twisting anything. It is simply different than your opinion. It isn’t (your favorite word) a straw man either. You asked for my opinion and I gave it. Explain why you see this as twisting anything.
[quote]BOSS wrote:
These illegal immigrants are breaking our laws by illegally entering this country; they should be treated as criminals. They should all be jailed up and sent back.
The minutemen are performing a job that our Government isn?t doing[/quote]
I agree that they are breaking laws. Why do you think our government isn’t acting?
[quote]nopal_juventus wrote:
I’ve gone to Cuba and China. I think they fit under the ‘communist’ label. I’m friends with my sister’s teacher, a cuban ballet school founder who has lived almost all her life in Cuba, and who supports communism (and no, she’s not brainwashed). [/quote]
Absolutely not. Both of those countries have market-based economies. The most accurate description of their system is “State Capitalism”. Way to many people talk about communism without knowing anything about it.
And to the guy saying you were comparing the US to a “communist country”, first, Marx made no distinction between socialism and communism. What many people call “socialism” is top-down socialism, which is qualitatively different from bottom-up socialism (communism). Top-down socialism is capitalism, with some “good” social policies. The problem is these concessions are temporary, and if the economy fails, they are dropped.
Further, there has NEVER been a communist country. I can understand how this statement might be confusing, if you get all your world knowledge from the fox news, and have never tried this thing called “learning”. One of the key features of communism is that it is a world-wide phenomenon (much like capitalism is world-wide; it wouldn’t work otherwise). The idea of having a communism in a single country is not plausible, as Lenin probably realized in his final days.
And Vegita, let me also add that this thread has informed of what many people who live on the border in surrounding towns may have to deal with. Whether some is blown out of proportion or not is something that I don’t know because much of the opinion in this thread could be based on bias. I don’t think anyone in this thread has condoned illegal immigration. It is simply understood that their illegal crossing is not the only problem.
In fact, it may simply be the outcome of a larger problem. I refuse to be one who only finds fault in those illegal immigrants. If this country wasn’t taking full advantage of many of these people, then everyone would have the point of only blaming them.
I’m not going to make fun of you for not being able to write a sentence without a spelling mistake, or tell you off for your clearly racist views, but the following comment struck me as odd…
[quote]Hydrolic Kraken wrote:
nopal_juventus wrote:
Way to dodge the issue. Americians did the labor years before way before imagrants did. What changed? [/quote]
It might come as a shock to you, but ALL americans, with the exception of amerindians, are from immigrant families. Who did the work in the past? immigrants!
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
…
It might come as a shock to you, but ALL americans, with the exception of amerindians, are from immigrant families. Who did the work in the past? immigrants!
[/quote]
Actually American Indians were also immigrants. They just got here earlier than the Europeans. It appears the first people in North America were more similar to the aborigines of Australia.
ProfX has come out and said that the minutemen shouldn’t be allowed to do what they are doing because they may not be ‘professionally’ trained.
Hspder has comeout and said that those that actually have a working knowledge of the border ranch culture should be fodder for a Bill Mahar sketch.
Everyone acknowledges that the government is doing nothing about the problem.
What do all the enlightened people think should be done? No gov’t help. No unemployed bubbas. What do we do?
I can tell you one thing - looking down your noses as if this situation is someone else’s problem isn’t doing a damn thing. Prejudging folks who are just trying to protect their property isn’t either.
What do all bubba haters out there think should be done? Have a bake sale? Is this just poetic justice because the gringo is finally getting his just due?
What are the alternatives to this situation if the gov’t continues to ignore it, and if the minutemen are told to stop?
Anybody?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Tell me where I’m off, here.
I have done that several times over. You have shown that regardless of how many times I type it, you are blind to what is being said. That makes further typing a waste of my time.
You asked, “How smart does one need to be to protect his home? His community?”…This coming after I have stated at least 6 times in this thread that I have nothing against someone protecting their own property. You hear what you want to hear. Case closed. [/quote]
That begs the question why there are at least four other folks in this thread that are reading what you write the same way?
If it was only me that had problems with your racism, then I might concede the point, but so far the only folks backing you are a self-admitted elitist, and a teen-aged communist. Both of them exuding the same form of bigotry as you.
You can ignore me, you can feign superiority. But you, ProfX, are judging people you don’t know in a situation you know nothing about. And that’s ‘intelligent’ to you.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
ProfX has come out and said that the minutemen shouldn’t be allowed to do what they are doing because they may not be ‘professionally’ trained.
Hspder has comeout and said that those that actually have a working knowledge of the border ranch culture should be fodder for a Bill Mahar sketch.
Everyone acknowledges that the government is doing nothing about the problem.
What do all the enlightened people think should be done? No gov’t help. No unemployed bubbas. What do we do?
I can tell you one thing - looking down your noses as if this situation is someone else’s problem isn’t doing a damn thing. Prejudging folks who are just trying to protect their property isn’t either.
What do all bubba haters out there think should be done? Have a bake sale? Is this just poetic justice because the gringo is finally getting his just due?
What are the alternatives to this situation if the gov’t continues to ignore it, and if the minutemen are told to stop?
Anybody?[/quote]
How about the minutemen are told to stop, and the government DOESN’T ignore it!!! It sounds novel, I know, but think about it: immigration laws are made less ridiculous, so workers can enter the US legally. Then, you get the border patrol to patrol the border. This way, you let the workers in, and they don’t have to break any laws. The mexicans are happy, the americans are happy (except the unemployed racist ones), and no one is exploited OR victimized.
So write some letters, and tell politicians what you want done.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
What are the alternatives to this situation if the gov’t continues to ignore it, and if the minutemen are told to stop?[/quote]
Why are you assuming the government is a lost cause? Aren’t you a Republican? Don’t Republicans have the house, the congress, the senate AND the presidency? Call your congressman. Write. Form a lobby and go to Washington. Get publicity.
That’s how modern, Representative Democracy is supposed to work:
And, last time I checked, this is still a Representative Democracy.
Do you know what’s the other group that gives up on Government and takes matters into their own hands? Terrorists.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
If it was only me that had problems with your racism, then I might concede the point, but so far the only folks backing you are a self-admitted elitist, and a teen-aged communist. Both of them exuding the same form of bigotry as you.
You can ignore me, you can feign superiority. But you, ProfX, are judging people you don’t know in a situation you know nothing about. And that’s ‘intelligent’ to you.
[/quote]
You are incorrect, I’m with ProfX too, on this one. I don’t see any bigotry in not trusting a group of men with guns to drive around looking for mexicans. It sounds like a bad idea to me. Seems like only a matter of time before there is an “incident”.
Calling a black man racist? That is typical. Best defense is a good offense, hey?
So the only soulution is for the government to handle it. Even though I stated expressly to assume that the government won’t.
I’m not asking for a civics lesson, hspder. It was a hypothetical. But the avenue of change you are advocating takes time - at least a year and 9 months from today.
There are those out there who can see that there is no cavalry coming. No border patrol agents. They are left to fend for themselves.
What are the options for these folks if they are told to stop? The gov’t has yet to lift a finger, so trusting them to step up now would be a bit of a stretch.
First off, they are armed for self defense, after threats on their lives from the mules who are losing tons of income.
Second - I’ve never used the word mexican wrt to the illegals crossing the border.
Third. I’m happy as a camper for you to be on ProfX’s side. If all the folks that are ignorant of the people and situation would just stay on that side - so much the better.
Are you saying that blacks are incapable of racism? Your sitting next to one displaying classic racist symptoms.
Prof X - here is your 1st post
I think it is a political statement and that they need to get out of the way. I think the whole “immigrant issue” has been blown out of proportion in terms of any real damage. I don’t see many other races willing to work the shifts or do the labor that many of these people do when they cross over. If you ever notice the guys who clean up stores overnight after they close, I am sure many fall into that category (though not all). Are we really saying that there are tons of people waiting on these jobs and illegal immigrants are stealing them all? It is political and I stopped trusting politicians a long time ago.
Here is what you responded to from me -
Prof X, your very first post in this thread, and please don’t insult my intelligence, this is a very pro immigration opinion, and based on the origional premise that the Militia Men are stopping ILLEGAL immigrants, one can quite easily make the connection that you in fact support ILLEGAL immigration.
And your response -
I never wrote anything nor meant anything about upholding illegal immigrant passage into the US. You act as if someone doesn’t fall into a box you already have made for them that their opinion is too hard to grasp. I don’t have to agree with the Minute Men to be FOR stronger patrols of the borders…however, I also realize a larger problem which is also how LEGAL citizenship is attained and how hard it is to get. That goes hand in hand with the problem.
I also realize that many of these people are willing to work jobs and shifts that most Americans won’t which brings into question just how much of a “problem” this really is. That is no “straw man” argument but one based on experience in having worked around people like that. You have a very narrow world view it seems. Everyone must either agree with you or they are completely insane and the word “straw man” gets thrown around a few hundred times. Is there anything else you are unclear on concerning my stance?
And here is what I actually posted -
Prof X, your very first post in this thread, and please don’t insult my intelligence, this is a very pro immigration opinion, and based on the origional premise that the Militia Men are stopping ILLEGAL immigrants, one can quite easily make the connection that you in fact support ILLEGAL immigration. Please don’t give me the BS line of you didn’t say it directly either. One of two things is true, you either support ILLEGAL immigration, or you lack the ability to even remotely stay on topic and not even have the courtesy of stating you are changing the topic. If you wanted to talk about how good, LEGEL immigration is, which the origional poster never questioned, you should have stated such. These are the basic communication skills that many people lack and is many times the reason for posts degrading into a buch of pissing.
I believe this is another one of your classic straw men, where the origional poster never said anything about Legel immigrants, yet you felt the need to defend them and the great work they do.
V
So - what about it? you say you answer questions and don’t switch topics, but you still have yet to answer this, and let me spell it out a little more clearly for you, Which do you support, Illegal Immigrants crossing into our country to do work that you think we need them to do, including criminal elements. OR Americans, guarding our borders to prevent them from coming in illegally, with the possibility of them still gaining acess to our country LEGALLY. All in an attempt to LOWER crime, and keep the bad ones from getting in. For the record, I am aware that you think immigration is good, I share that same idea with you. I however feel it is much more beneficial to control the immigration process rather than let hundreds of thousands of people into our country unchecked.
V
[quote]hspder wrote:
Do you know what’s the other group that gives up on Government and takes matters into their own hands? Terrorists.
[/quote]
So now we have been graduated from skit fodder to terrorists?
You are assuming that they haven’t already exhausted the measures you spoke of. How could they? Being the ignorant rednecks that they are, they probably just shoot first, and ask questions later, huh?
[quote]JeffR wrote:
POX WROTE:
“The Joe Weider clone is a distractionary tool of the conservatives on this forum. There may not be any substance, but he will make damn sure that you are aware of everything he does not have to offer. Then again, at least he is far removed from screaming, “What are the alternatives!!!” so maybe there is hope afterall.”
WELL!!!
I’m sorry I’ve been away.
It seems POX has been up to his usual sniping, carping, “scary” tactics.
First of all, I must applaud my brethren Cream/Rainjack/Joe Weider for their unabashed pentration of my friend POX!!!
POX, are you sore?
POX, WHAT ARE THE ALTERNATIVES!!!
Wait, I’m the alternative to POX!!!
Anyway, I must tell you that I’ve taken your avatar and used it as the backdrop on my computer. You’ll be surprised to learn that I find your physique humorous.
Funny, I agree with Cream on this one. Louis Cyr IS the white version of POX!!!
EVERYONE CHECK OUT THIS LINK:
http://cgi.sandowplus.co.uk/Competition/Cyr/gallery.htm
Tell me this isn’t the white version of POX!!!
In summary, I am a big fan of POX. He dishes out his racism pure and unalloyed. Please don’t scare him away.
Imagine a room filled with POX, al shades, nopal de ding dong. POX would sit in the corner mumbling “I’m not going to talk to you, white man.”
Al would say, we should break up this “little, informal meeting. Since my dad and mom left, I don’t believe in formal meetings.”
Nopal would say, “Repress all!! Everyone is exactly the same!!! Except, I’m the leader, comrades!!!”
I’m having a ball!!!
JeffR
[/quote]
Oi, I t hink I object to the idea of pentrating ProfX–thanks all the same, I’m sure it was meant well. But still…
(shivers…)
Besides, I dont’ think anything penetrates that massive ego and cloud of delusion and racism.
[quote]Al Shades wrote:Question of the day: Did I really have to make this post, or do you simply enjoy pretending to be a moron?
[/quote]
actually, I think the question of the day is what do you do with that other .1 of banana.
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
Calling a black man racist? That is typical. Best defense is a good offense, hey?[/quote]
yeah. Why not? Or are black people so pure that they cannot feel the same things every other human does, rightly and wrongly?
Racism is horrible, it’s ugly, and it’s flat wrong.
I don’t care which direction it’s coming from.
ProfX called me racist–and all I’ve done is argue with him. And guess what? I dont’ give a crap what fucking color his skin is–I disagree with what’s in his head.
But I’m racist for arguing with him.
“No. I don’t. I don’t buy the dirty hands argument when it comes to cultures or countries. Neither should you, so don’t bring up garbage about seven CIA agents in some jungle somewhere being proof of anything about the USA or you will get called on it.”
What? I was asking about the personal attack you made on me for allegedly being a american-hating spanish communist. I then asked you if you considered spaniards to still have the conquistador mindset, and you never responded.