[quote]Pushers wrote:
Yes dude, I get it! You think the only way some one should get away from an immoral thing is to leave the country. So, coming back the slavery example again, you think people who were anti-slavery at that time should have left America.
[/quote]
No, taxation isn’t immoral.
Slavery, rape, and taxation. One of these things is not like the other…
Speak away, no one is trying to stop you. No one wants to pay taxes, I do not want to pay taxes. Why are there not millions of people pushing to end this immoral act?
What’s there to say besides this is absolutely absurd.
Food produces are required to work within guidelines that ensure a certain quality of their product. Do you really think Corporations would voluntarily do this?
The judge’s ruling would be binding how?
Sounds an awful lot like a form of government to me.
Put together a comprehensive and coherent plan as to how public services would work in the real world without taxation and I’m happy to listen. That’s the problem with these fantasies about living tax free there is never a real alternative plan offered. It’s always, “Oh it’ll work cause you know…”
And so does everyone else. So for everyone to have freedom, that would require everyone to respect everyone’s right to freedom. And freedom would then inherently be limited by this. i.e., You couldn’t have freedom to kill someone because you take away their freedom to live.
Utopia. [/quote]
But a free society doesn’t mean exactly the freedom to do ANYTHING you like, it means the freedom to do anything you like as long as you respect the non-aggression principle (i.e. do no harm to others and infringe upon their rights) and respect for private property rights (so you can’t go taking “freely” that which does not belong to you)
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That’s what I said. Not sure where the confusion is.
There a lot of people who want to talk about “freedom” and they think anarchy, and NOT the political Anarchist view, which would be more in line with what we are talking about.
True anarchy, Somalia anarchy is what people fear. When that happens, they begin to look to a state like figure to “control” the masses, giving up some freedoms to ensure other freedoms.
So until people are able to respect others, the earth, themselves, and not fear each other, you’ll never see true freedom as we are discussing.
I have a question for those who are opposed to raising the minimum wage.
I understand your reasoning as to why you’re opposed to raising the minimum wage. My question is if you could, would you abolish the minimum wage altogether?
[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
I have a question for those who are opposed to raising the minimum wage.
I understand your reasoning as to why you’re opposed to raising the minimum wage. My question is if you could, would you abolish the minimum wage altogether? [/quote]
No, I think it’s a valuable employee protection. The problem lies in this concept of a “living wage”. Minimum wage was never mean’t to be a living wage.
[quote]Pushers wrote:
Yes dude, I get it! You think the only way some one should get away from an immoral thing is to leave the country. So, coming back the slavery example again, you think people who were anti-slavery at that time should have left America.
[/quote]
No, taxation isn’t immoral.
Slavery, rape, and taxation. One of these things is not like the other…
[/quote]
Right wing? I’m not right wing! I’m just pro-freedom and anti-government force/coercion. Ring wing types tend to believe in having a big military, in the drug war, in religion, etc, etc - I don’t agree with any of those things.
[/quote]
Oh I am sorry I thought you were against America having infrastructure . I also am against a bloated miltary , the war on drugs and Religion mixed with our politics
I am for anything that we all need , Roads , Water , Electricity , Health Care , Justice and the like [/quote]
Where on earth did you get the idea that I’m against America (or anywhere else for that matter) having infrastructure? That’s crazy. I’m totally all for infrastructure. I am also for all the things we need. Of course. I’m just against “the government” providing them. I’d rather see them provided by the free market, that’s the only difference.
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I think unless you have a very narrow aspect , Government will out preform the free market . The free market is limited by profit , if you can’t make money on it , don’t do it
[quote]Pushers wrote:
Yes dude, I get it! You think the only way some one should get away from an immoral thing is to leave the country. So, coming back the slavery example again, you think people who were anti-slavery at that time should have left America.
[/quote]
No, taxation isn’t immoral.
Slavery, rape, and taxation. One of these things is not like the other…
[/quote]
Yes, and technically it would be rape. [/quote]
You can not charge the customer and then call it rape , you can but it would be a lie
Diving on tax funded roads enjoying a public education , drinking tax subsidized water using tax subsidized electricity .
Most employers have huge advantages living in a civilized and safe society . Other wise all employers would move to Somalia and the like
[quote]Pushers wrote:
Yes dude, I get it! You think the only way some one should get away from an immoral thing is to leave the country. So, coming back the slavery example again, you think people who were anti-slavery at that time should have left America.
[/quote]
No, taxation isn’t immoral.
Slavery, rape, and taxation. One of these things is not like the other…
[/quote]
Yes, and technically it would be rape. [/quote]
Okay, all of these things are not like each other…
You aren’t going to sit here and try and compare slavery to taxation are you?
[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
I have a question for those who are opposed to raising the minimum wage.
I understand your reasoning as to why you’re opposed to raising the minimum wage. My question is if you could, would you abolish the minimum wage altogether? [/quote]
No, I think it’s a valuable employee protection. The problem lies in this concept of a “living wage”. Minimum wage was never mean’t to be a living wage. [/quote]
This is the take home point, minimum wage was not meant to raise a family.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Why would you hire some kid when you can get an adult with responsibility to exploit for the same $7.25
[/quote]
Many adults have skills worth more than $7.25. [/quote]
I am sure there are many adults earning minimum wage with skills that far exceed that wage . But either the job market has no job requiring those skills or the abundance of workers with those skills and no job bring those workers to minimum wage
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Why would you hire some kid when you can get an adult with responsibility to exploit for the same $7.25
[/quote]
Many adults have skills worth more than $7.25. [/quote]
I am sure there are many adults earning minimum wage with skills that far exceed that wage . But either the job market has no job requiring those skills or the abundance of workers with those skills and no job bring those workers to minimum wage
[/quote]
It has been pointed out by several in this thread that it IS possible to survive on minimum wage…just not live lavish.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Why would you hire some kid when you can get an adult with responsibility to exploit for the same $7.25
[/quote]
Many adults have skills worth more than $7.25. [/quote]
I am sure there are many adults earning minimum wage with skills that far exceed that wage . But either the job market has no job requiring those skills or the abundance of workers with those skills and no job bring those workers to minimum wage
[/quote]
As your link points out only 5.2% of all workers 16 and over make at or below minimum wage. I suppose a portion of that 5.2% could fall into what you wrote above. It’s on them to adjust, not for us to hold their hands. Community college is pretty cheap for example.
It depends where you live , I am told the living wage in San Francisco is over $16 hour . I do not get why the so called right cares what kind of TV or phone a poor person has ?
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
And for the record, I walked across the street to the McDonalds near my office. I asked the Manager what their STARTING wage was…“$8.50”
And this is in one of the least expensive places to live anywhere.
Maybe this is not really that big of a problem/[/quote]
5.2% of the working population makes @ or below minimum…It’s peanuts compared to other problems we have.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
It depends where you live , I am told the living wage in San Francisco is over $16 hour . I do not get why the so called right cares what kind of TV or phone a poor person has ?[/quote]
Because they cost A LOT OF MONEY. Many of us don’t own luxuries like the “poor” in this country do.