[quote]Aragorn wrote:
I was hoping somebody would crunch the numbers I suspected in my head.[/quote]
I want to further add that I’m not blind to the perctange increase here. I mean we see basically a 25% increase in rent as a percentage of income. But again, Supply and Demand. Not to mention the significantly higher taxes imposed upon business owners which are then passed on to consumers. And taxes are more than just the items reported on W-2s. These all get passed on to the consumer.[/quote]
There is alot more to it than housing.
As one example: When I started ‘grown-up’ work in 1980 the majority of workers had medical, dental, and vision insurance paid in full; about half also had a defined retirement plan.
You are correct; increased cost are passed on; however the cost of to many people and not enough jobs is passed on as well. We are going to pay for it one way or another, that’s not the question.
[/quote]
Average salary in 1977: $15k
Average salary in today in equivalent buying power: $58k
Average rent in 1977: $240/mo
As a % of the average salary: 1.6%
Average salary in 2012: $44k
This salary worth in 1977: $11.5k
Average rent in 2012: $884
As a % of the average salary: 2%
My math might be off but
$15k yearly average?
$240/mo rent = $2880/year
which would be 19.2% of average yearly salary not 1.6%
$44k yearly average
$884/mo = $10608/year
which would be 24.11% not 2% of yearly salary
[/quote]
Haha yeah sorry. I was going to quick there. In either case, the 25% increase is consistent. I thought those numbers seemed small, but the results are the same.
Thanks for rechecking my math. I’m an embarassment to my profession.[/quote]
It’s embarrassing that I didn’t catch your mistake reading it either lol :S
I am not in favor of raising the minimum wage; but I’ve been around long enough to know that either people are going to be gainfully employed, on public assistance, or a combination of the two. Business is sitting on loads of cash and as profitable as ever, however, short of artificial bubbles I’m at a loss determining what could spur demand in our current situation.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
I am not in favor of raising the minimum wage; but I’ve been around long enough to know that either people are going to be gainfully employed, on public assistance, or a combination of the two. Business is sitting on loads of cash and as profitable as ever, however, short of artificial bubbles I’m at a loss determining what could spur demand in our current situation. [/quote]
Require congress to pass a balanced budget or they are removed from office?
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
I am not in favor of raising the minimum wage; but I’ve been around long enough to know that either people are going to be gainfully employed, on public assistance, or a combination of the two. Business is sitting on loads of cash and as profitable as ever, however, short of artificial bubbles I’m at a loss determining what could spur demand in our current situation. [/quote]
Lower taxes, less regulation, more freedom. There you go.
If you take away public assistance then that will help the economy.
Public Assistance helps no one except the politicians.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
I am not in favor of raising the minimum wage; but I’ve been around long enough to know that either people are going to be gainfully employed, on public assistance, or a combination of the two. Business is sitting on loads of cash and as profitable as ever, however, short of artificial bubbles I’m at a loss determining what could spur demand in our current situation. [/quote]
Yep, it’s a dicey situation to say the least and I agree.
I tend to be of the opinion that the cash reserves are there because businesses are fearful of the the uncertainty of the current environment (ACA, lagging growth, etc., etc.) and want to hold reserves. This obviously hurts a number of things, but it is a rational decision if you run a business.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Don’t know if this has been posted yet, but seemed appropriate.[/quote]
Exactly. It worked for Banks.
[/quote]
People seem to have short memories. [/quote]
Yet…somehow banking is just as expensive as ever. [/quote]
ATM fees are the biggest joke in the known world.[/quote]
Ever since I was charged $1.25 to get cash when I was 16, I have never used another bank to get money. I have a large bank checking account for when I travel, and everything else is in an online savings account. I transfer money back and forth all the time.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Don’t know if this has been posted yet, but seemed appropriate.[/quote]
Exactly. It worked for Banks.
[/quote]
People seem to have short memories. [/quote]
Yet…somehow banking is just as expensive as ever. [/quote]
ATM fees are the biggest joke in the known world.[/quote]
I have a large bank checking account for when I travel, and everything else is in an online savings account. I transfer money back and forth all the time.
[/quote]
I travel for work as well, this is the exact same system I use.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
I am not in favor of raising the minimum wage; but I’ve been around long enough to know that either people are going to be gainfully employed, on public assistance, or a combination of the two. Business is sitting on loads of cash and as profitable as ever, however, short of artificial bubbles I’m at a loss determining what could spur demand in our current situation. [/quote]
Lower taxes, less regulation, more freedom. There you go.
If you take away public assistance then that will help the economy.
Public Assistance helps no one except the politicians.
[/quote]
I realize those are the talking points from this mornings memo; but I am unconvinced, I suspect the problem is much larger than that.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
I am not in favor of raising the minimum wage; but I’ve been around long enough to know that either people are going to be gainfully employed, on public assistance, or a combination of the two. Business is sitting on loads of cash and as profitable as ever, however, short of artificial bubbles I’m at a loss determining what could spur demand in our current situation. [/quote]
Yep, it’s a dicey situation to say the least and I agree.
I tend to be of the opinion that the cash reserves are there because businesses are fearful of the the uncertainty of the current environment (ACA, lagging growth, etc., etc.) and want to hold reserves. This obviously hurts a number of things, but it is a rational decision if you run a business.[/quote]
IMO…demand is the only issue. I have been involved in hiring decisions throughout my career, although we consider everthing, the companies I have worked for hire when we have demmand, simple as that.
What could possibly create demmand in our current situation, or worse yet, after the Fed ends the taper?
Part of the problem is MANY (probably most, but I don’t want to take the time to find a reliable statistic) is that either their money is tied up in so much debt, they are barely making minimum payments OR they are so afraid to spend money bc they don’t want to get into a bad situation.
I pretty much made no major purchases for 3 years while I paid off my $25k+ in credit card debt i racked up during college…and I haven’t even come close to touching my $50k in student loan debt, although that’s an economical decision by me. Who the hell gave me $30k+ credit card limits on $10k/year and no savings in income? I didn’t even ask for limit raises…they just gave it to me.
And the fed doesn’t give free money. It’s free money to the banks that loan the money out for cars and houses mostly. Who does that really help? All you’ve done is now tied up future income for things NOW. that’s the problem with debt spending. That was the problem with the “Turn in your old car and get credit for a new car” deal. I moved all future purchases to today, so when the future comes, no one needs anything.
It’s all about NOW NOW NOW NOW at the expense of the Future. We’ll deal with the future when it becomes NOW.
[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Part of the problem is MANY (probably most, but I don’t want to take the time to find a reliable statistic) is that either their money is tied up in so much debt, they are barely making minimum payments OR they are so afraid to spend money bc they don’t want to get into a bad situation.
I pretty much made no major purchases for 3 years while I paid off my $25k+ in credit card debt i racked up during college…and I haven’t even come close to touching my $50k in student loan debt, although that’s an economical decision by me. Who the hell gave me $30k+ credit card limits on $10k/year and no savings in income? I didn’t even ask for limit raises…they just gave it to me.
And the fed doesn’t give free money. It’s free money to the banks that loan the money out for cars and houses mostly. Who does that really help? All you’ve done is now tied up future income for things NOW. that’s the problem with debt spending. That was the problem with the “Turn in your old car and get credit for a new car” deal. I moved all future purchases to today, so when the future comes, no one needs anything.
It’s all about NOW NOW NOW NOW at the expense of the Future. We’ll deal with the future when it becomes NOW.[/quote]
Well done…what did you think I meant?
So if people save; no one is spending and if people spend the hole get’s deeper.
[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
And the fed doesn’t give free money. It’s free money to the banks that loan the money out for cars and houses mostly. Who does that really help? All you’ve done is now tied up future income for things NOW. that’s the problem with debt spending.[/quote]
Consider that debt spending is what has supported the economy for the last twenty years. What would today’s situation be like without it, ot tomorrow’s for that matter?
