Minimum Wage, Again

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
281

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
My Grandmother, God rest her soul, lived through the Great Depression. Any one today not know where there next meal is coming from? My Grand Mother would go a day or two with out food, because there was none unless you grew it.
[/quote]

Yes, this was common during that period.
Then the leadership of the nation went to work to create a system where people would have some measure of protection from exposure, hunger, and thirst. WTF is the current leadership doing other than pilfering the treasury.

BTW…your not proposing that we should return to a depression era economy are you? That was a great period for landlords!
[/quote]

I am not. I am suggesting people stop relying on the government for everything. Minimum wage can only get you food, shelter, and clothes. You want more go get a second job or get the skills to get a better job.

Today is a great time for landlords. More and More people can not qualify for home loans because they can not save up the 20% down payment (Conventional Loan) or better yet the 6% in closing costs and 3% down payment (FHA Loan). There are more Tenets now and rents are going up fast. Supply and Demand. Supply is not keeping up with demand.

Edit: Minimum wage can only get you basic food, shelter, and clothing.

282

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
I was hoping somebody would crunch the numbers I suspected in my head.[/quote]

I want to further add that I’m not blind to the perctange increase here. I mean we see basically a 25% increase in rent as a percentage of income. But again, Supply and Demand. Not to mention the significantly higher taxes imposed upon business owners which are then passed on to consumers. And taxes are more than just the items reported on W-2s. These all get passed on to the consumer.[/quote]

There is alot more to it than housing.
As one example: When I started ‘grown-up’ work in 1980 the majority of workers had medical, dental, and vision insurance paid in full; about half also had a defined retirement plan.

You are correct; increased cost are passed on; however the cost of to many people and not enough jobs is passed on as well. We are going to pay for it one way or another, that’s not the question.

283

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

Average salary in 1977: $15k
Average salary in today in equivalent buying power: $58k
Average rent in 1977: $240/mo
As a % of the average salary: 1.6%

Average salary in 2012: $44k
This salary worth in 1977: $11.5k
Average rent in 2012: $884
As a % of the average salary: 2%

My math might be off but
$15k yearly average?
$240/mo rent = $2880/year
which would be 19.2% of average yearly salary not 1.6%

$44k yearly average
$884/mo = $10608/year
which would be 24.11% not 2% of yearly salary

284

I’m not sure how much of a difference this makes in real world terms, but there is a difference between 1.6% & 2%, and 19.2% & 24.11%

285

[quote]Kai9ne wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

Average salary in 1977: $15k
Average salary in today in equivalent buying power: $58k
Average rent in 1977: $240/mo
As a % of the average salary: 1.6%

Average salary in 2012: $44k
This salary worth in 1977: $11.5k
Average rent in 2012: $884
As a % of the average salary: 2%

My math might be off but
$15k yearly average?
$240/mo rent = $2880/year
which would be 19.2% of average yearly salary not 1.6%

$44k yearly average
$884/mo = $10608/year
which would be 24.11% not 2% of yearly salary

[/quote]

Haha yeah sorry. I was going to quick there. In either case, the 25% increase is consistent. I thought those numbers seemed small, but the results are the same.

Thanks for rechecking my math. I’m an embarassment to my profession.

286

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
My Grandmother, God rest her soul, lived through the Great Depression. Any one today not know where there next meal is coming from? My Grand Mother would go a day or two with out food, because there was none unless you grew it.
[/quote]

Yes, this was common during that period.
Then the leadership of the nation went to work to create a system where people would have some measure of protection from exposure, hunger, and thirst. WTF is the current leadership doing other than pilfering the treasury.

BTW…your not proposing that we should return to a depression era economy are you? That was a great period for landlords!
[/quote]

I am not. I am suggesting people stop relying on the government for everything. Minimum wage can only get you food, shelter, and clothes. You want more go get a second job or get the skills to get a better job.

Today is a great time for landlords. More and More people can not qualify for home loans because they can not save up the 20% down payment (Conventional Loan) or better yet the 6% in closing costs and 3% down payment (FHA Loan). There are more Tenets now and rents are going up fast. Supply and Demand. Supply is not keeping up with demand.

Edit: Minimum wage can only get you basic food, shelter, and clothing.[/quote]

I suspect minimum wage doesn’t even get you that in most cases; but we agree that adults shouldn’t be working minimum wage jobs.

287

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]Kai9ne wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

Average salary in 1977: $15k
Average salary in today in equivalent buying power: $58k
Average rent in 1977: $240/mo
As a % of the average salary: 1.6%

Average salary in 2012: $44k
This salary worth in 1977: $11.5k
Average rent in 2012: $884
As a % of the average salary: 2%

My math might be off but
$15k yearly average?
$240/mo rent = $2880/year
which would be 19.2% of average yearly salary not 1.6%

$44k yearly average
$884/mo = $10608/year
which would be 24.11% not 2% of yearly salary

[/quote]

Haha yeah sorry. I was going to quick there. In either case, the 25% increase is consistent. I thought those numbers seemed small, but the results are the same.

Thanks for rechecking my math. I’m an embarassment to my profession.[/quote]

IMO…it’e also worth mentioning that in 1980 I lived in a town with a population of 30,000 people. Everyday the emploment section of the local paper had 15-20 pages of openings, today in that paper it is a page and a half and the population has doubled.

288

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I moved out on my own in 1977 , I have seen wages stay the same and the cost of living sky rocket . I can give you numbers but I will warn you it is boring :slight_smile:
[/quote]
I would like to see the numbers.[/quote]

In 1977 my rent was $35 find me rent to day like that . I heated a mobile home in OH the whole year for less than $200 I was making $30,000 a year
[/quote]

$30k in 1977 is the equivalent of $155k/year today.

Average salary in 1977: $15k
Average salary in today in equivalent buying power: $58k
Average rent in 1977: $240/mo
As a % of the average salary: 1.6%

Average salary in 2012: $44k
This salary worth in 1977: $11.5k
Average rent in 2012: $884
As a % of the average salary: 2%

Average mobile home rent in 2013: $200-300/month
As a % of the average salary: 0.4%-0.6%

Your 1977 rent: $35/month
As a % of the your 1977 average salary: 0.2%

Doesn’t seem to crazy to me. I would expect living expenses to go up b/c there is a fixed amount of property available and an ever growing population, but we aren’t that far off from 1977. Certainly not in epidemic status.[/quote]

Where did you get your numbers ?

289

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I moved out on my own in 1977 , I have seen wages stay the same and the cost of living sky rocket . I can give you numbers but I will warn you it is boring :slight_smile:
[/quote]
I would like to see the numbers.[/quote]

In 1977 my rent was $35 find me rent to day like that . I heated a mobile home in OH the whole year for less than $200 I was making $30,000 a year
[/quote]

Oh, I thought you were going to give numbers that actually mean something, not just your personal situation. The average rent in 1977, according to thepeoplehistory.com, was $240. The average income, according to the same source, was $15,000. You may be able to rent a mobile home in Ohio today for just over 1/8 the national average. I don’t know; I’ve never looked into it.[/quote]

The cost of living keeps moving up and the wages flat line . That is fact . It was a whole lot easier to live the farther you go back , OK i know I have to say before Reagan
[/quote]

My Grandmother, God rest her soul, lived through the Great Depression. Any one today not know where there next meal is coming from? My Grand Mother would go a day or two with out food, because there was none unless you grew it.
[/quote]

God bless your Grandmother but she has nothing to do with this conversation , neither does my father :slight_smile: Try the Depression in Appalachia [/quote]

Your statement, “It was a whole lot easier to live the farther you go back.” Is what brought up my grand mother. You go back the the Great Depression and it was not a good time. Now is the better time to live. There is food on the table, a roof over your head, and clothes on your back.

290

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I moved out on my own in 1977 , I have seen wages stay the same and the cost of living sky rocket . I can give you numbers but I will warn you it is boring :slight_smile:
[/quote]
I would like to see the numbers.[/quote]

In 1977 my rent was $35 find me rent to day like that . I heated a mobile home in OH the whole year for less than $200 I was making $30,000 a year
[/quote]

Oh, I thought you were going to give numbers that actually mean something, not just your personal situation. The average rent in 1977, according to thepeoplehistory.com, was $240. The average income, according to the same source, was $15,000. You may be able to rent a mobile home in Ohio today for just over 1/8 the national average. I don’t know; I’ve never looked into it.[/quote]

The cost of living keeps moving up and the wages flat line . That is fact . It was a whole lot easier to live the farther you go back , OK i know I have to say before Reagan
[/quote]

My Grandmother, God rest her soul, lived through the Great Depression. Any one today not know where there next meal is coming from? My Grand Mother would go a day or two with out food, because there was none unless you grew it.
[/quote]

God bless your Grandmother but she has nothing to do with this conversation , neither does my father :slight_smile: Try the Depression in Appalachia [/quote]

Your statement, “It was a whole lot easier to live the farther you go back.” Is what brought up my grand mother. You go back the the Great Depression and it was not a good time. Now is the better time to live. There is food on the table, a roof over your head, and clothes on your back.
[/quote]

I will cut and paste from this thread and I said “OK i know I have to say before Reagan”

less than 10 line directly above :slight_smile:

291

[quote]Kai9ne wrote:

My math might be off but
$15k yearly average?
$240/mo rent = $2880/year
which would be 19.2% of average yearly salary not 1.6%

$44k yearly average
$884/mo = $10608/year
which would be 24.11% not 2% of yearly salary

[/quote]

“Whatever you do, always make sure you are good at math. It is the best way to figure out if someone is lying to you”
–Mrs. Freeman, my 5th grade math teacher

Wise woman she was.

292

How much are dollars back then worth today and vice versa
http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

Average 2012 rent. Amount derived from US Census

Average 2012 Salary:

Average 1977 Salary here. I got the $15k from somewhere else, but this is the actual census and has the average salary at $13,750, so actually, the comparison between today and then is closer than what I presented
ftp://ftp.census.gov/prod2/popscan/p60-117.pdf

Here’s where I got the original $15k and average rent. It didn’t sound unreasonable

293

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
How much are dollars back then worth today and vice versa
http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

Average 2012 rent. Amount derived from US Census

Average 2012 Salary:

Average 1977 Salary here. I got the $15k from somewhere else, but this is the actual census and has the average salary at $13,750, so actually, the comparison between today and then is closer than what I presented
ftp://ftp.census.gov/prod2/popscan/p60-117.pdf

Here’s where I got the original $15k and average rent. It didn’t sound unreasonable
http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/1977.html[/quote]

Thanks

294

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
How much are dollars back then worth today and vice versa
http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

Average 2012 rent. Amount derived from US Census

Average 2012 Salary:

Average 1977 Salary here. I got the $15k from somewhere else, but this is the actual census and has the average salary at $13,750, so actually, the comparison between today and then is closer than what I presented
ftp://ftp.census.gov/prod2/popscan/p60-117.pdf

Here’s where I got the original $15k and average rent. It didn’t sound unreasonable
http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/1977.html[/quote]

IMO…median #s are a better reflection than averages.

295

[quote]Kai9ne wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

Average salary in 1977: $15k
Average salary in today in equivalent buying power: $58k
Average rent in 1977: $240/mo
As a % of the average salary: 1.6%

Average salary in 2012: $44k
This salary worth in 1977: $11.5k
Average rent in 2012: $884
As a % of the average salary: 2%

My math might be off but
$15k yearly average?
$240/mo rent = $2880/year
which would be 19.2% of average yearly salary not 1.6%

$44k yearly average
$884/mo = $10608/year[/quote]

which would be 24.11% not 2% of yearly salary

[/quote]

And the 1977 figure is 19.2%

296

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I moved out on my own in 1977 , I have seen wages stay the same and the cost of living sky rocket . I can give you numbers but I will warn you it is boring :slight_smile:
[/quote]
I would like to see the numbers.[/quote]

In 1977 my rent was $35 find me rent to day like that . I heated a mobile home in OH the whole year for less than $200 I was making $30,000 a year
[/quote]

Oh, I thought you were going to give numbers that actually mean something, not just your personal situation. The average rent in 1977, according to thepeoplehistory.com, was $240. The average income, according to the same source, was $15,000. You may be able to rent a mobile home in Ohio today for just over 1/8 the national average. I don’t know; I’ve never looked into it.[/quote]

The cost of living keeps moving up and the wages flat line . That is fact . It was a whole lot easier to live the farther you go back , OK i know I have to say before Reagan
[/quote]

My Grandmother, God rest her soul, lived through the Great Depression. Any one today not know where there next meal is coming from? My Grand Mother would go a day or two with out food, because there was none unless you grew it.
[/quote]

God bless your Grandmother but she has nothing to do with this conversation , neither does my father :slight_smile: Try the Depression in Appalachia [/quote]

Your statement, “It was a whole lot easier to live the farther you go back.” Is what brought up my grand mother. You go back the the Great Depression and it was not a good time. Now is the better time to live. There is food on the table, a roof over your head, and clothes on your back.
[/quote]

I will cut and paste from this thread and I said “OK i know I have to say before Reagan”

less than 10 line directly above :slight_smile:
[/quote]

So it was better living before Reagan or it was better living after Reagan?

297

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
IMO…median #s are a better reflection than averages.
[/quote]

I’d agree with that, but you aren’t talking a signficant difference. I compared apples to apples here. Median to median income would result in nearly the same.

298

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I moved out on my own in 1977 , I have seen wages stay the same and the cost of living sky rocket . I can give you numbers but I will warn you it is boring :slight_smile:
[/quote]
I would like to see the numbers.[/quote]

In 1977 my rent was $35 find me rent to day like that . I heated a mobile home in OH the whole year for less than $200 I was making $30,000 a year
[/quote]

Oh, I thought you were going to give numbers that actually mean something, not just your personal situation. The average rent in 1977, according to thepeoplehistory.com, was $240. The average income, according to the same source, was $15,000. You may be able to rent a mobile home in Ohio today for just over 1/8 the national average. I don’t know; I’ve never looked into it.[/quote]

The cost of living keeps moving up and the wages flat line . That is fact . It was a whole lot easier to live the farther you go back , OK i know I have to say before Reagan
[/quote]

My Grandmother, God rest her soul, lived through the Great Depression. Any one today not know where there next meal is coming from? My Grand Mother would go a day or two with out food, because there was none unless you grew it.
[/quote]

God bless your Grandmother but she has nothing to do with this conversation , neither does my father :slight_smile: Try the Depression in Appalachia [/quote]

Your statement, “It was a whole lot easier to live the farther you go back.” Is what brought up my grand mother. You go back the the Great Depression and it was not a good time. Now is the better time to live. There is food on the table, a roof over your head, and clothes on your back.
[/quote]

I will cut and paste from this thread and I said “OK i know I have to say before Reagan”

less than 10 line directly above :slight_smile:
[/quote]

So it was better living before Reagan or it was better living after Reagan?

[/quote]

I can speak for 55 years , I can not for my father or his

299

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
My Grandmother, God rest her soul, lived through the Great Depression. Any one today not know where there next meal is coming from? My Grand Mother would go a day or two with out food, because there was none unless you grew it.
[/quote]

Yes, this was common during that period.
Then the leadership of the nation went to work to create a system where people would have some measure of protection from exposure, hunger, and thirst. WTF is the current leadership doing other than pilfering the treasury.

BTW…your not proposing that we should return to a depression era economy are you? That was a great period for landlords!
[/quote]

I am not. I am suggesting people stop relying on the government for everything. Minimum wage can only get you food, shelter, and clothes. You want more go get a second job or get the skills to get a better job.

Today is a great time for landlords. More and More people can not qualify for home loans because they can not save up the 20% down payment (Conventional Loan) or better yet the 6% in closing costs and 3% down payment (FHA Loan). There are more Tenets now and rents are going up fast. Supply and Demand. Supply is not keeping up with demand.

Edit: Minimum wage can only get you basic food, shelter, and clothing.[/quote]

I suspect minimum wage doesn’t even get you that in most cases; but we agree that adults shouldn’t be working minimum wage jobs. [/quote]

It will get you basic necessities. I have seen apartments go for $400 a month, basic food for $250-300, and clothes from Goodwill. You can do it, but man it would suck. You want any luxury like a cell phone, cable TV, or a car then no it will not.

Now if we are talking basic necessities in New York City, Beverly Hills, and more expensive places then no, but most of the country you can make it work.

300

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I moved out on my own in 1977 , I have seen wages stay the same and the cost of living sky rocket . I can give you numbers but I will warn you it is boring :slight_smile:
[/quote]
I would like to see the numbers.[/quote]

In 1977 my rent was $35 find me rent to day like that . I heated a mobile home in OH the whole year for less than $200 I was making $30,000 a year
[/quote]

Oh, I thought you were going to give numbers that actually mean something, not just your personal situation. The average rent in 1977, according to thepeoplehistory.com, was $240. The average income, according to the same source, was $15,000. You may be able to rent a mobile home in Ohio today for just over 1/8 the national average. I don’t know; I’ve never looked into it.[/quote]

The cost of living keeps moving up and the wages flat line . That is fact . It was a whole lot easier to live the farther you go back , OK i know I have to say before Reagan
[/quote]

My Grandmother, God rest her soul, lived through the Great Depression. Any one today not know where there next meal is coming from? My Grand Mother would go a day or two with out food, because there was none unless you grew it.
[/quote]

God bless your Grandmother but she has nothing to do with this conversation , neither does my father :slight_smile: Try the Depression in Appalachia [/quote]

Your statement, “It was a whole lot easier to live the farther you go back.” Is what brought up my grand mother. You go back the the Great Depression and it was not a good time. Now is the better time to live. There is food on the table, a roof over your head, and clothes on your back.
[/quote]

I will cut and paste from this thread and I said “OK i know I have to say before Reagan”

less than 10 line directly above :slight_smile:
[/quote]

So it was better living before Reagan or it was better living after Reagan?

[/quote]

I can speak for 55 years , I can not for my father or his
[/quote]

you are 55?