Minimum Wage, Again

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
321

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
If years of ‘essentailly’ free money hasn’t spurred demand, what could?[/quote]

Demand comes from Main Street. All this free money has only helped the wealthy. They have all refinanced all their long term debt at historically low interest rates, or they arbitraged their bets (borrowed from the Fed at near 0% and loaned out or more likely invested in the stock market at 25-30%. When the money comes due they will sell all their investments pay off the loans and keep the difference. You and I can not borrow from the fed, only the banks.

There was free money, but the acceleration of the money has been low. The Banks are not lending like they did before the bubble. If the banks can not lend to Main Street then the acceleration of money stays low and there is no inflation. Businesses are scared where this country is going. Until the government gets out of our way, lower taxes, less regulation, and more freedom, then the businesses will start to spend money on their businesses.

322

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
If years of ‘essentailly’ free money hasn’t spurred demand, what could?[/quote]

Demand comes from Main Street. All this free money has only helped the wealthy. They have all refinanced all their long term debt at historically low interest rates, or they arbitraged their bets (borrowed from the Fed at near 0% and loaned out or more likely invested in the stock market at 25-30%. When the money comes due they will sell all their investments pay off the loans and keep the difference. You and I can not borrow from the fed, only the banks.

There was free money, but the acceleration of the money has been low. The Banks are not lending like they did before the bubble. If the banks can not lend to Main Street then the acceleration of money stays low and there is no inflation. Businesses are scared where this country is going. Until the government gets out of our way, lower taxes, less regulation, and more freedom, then the businesses will start to spend money on their businesses.
[/quote]

You describe the situation well, and the trickle down theory (which we have employed for at least the last thirty years) states that the ‘good times’ will reach the bottom once the bellies at the top are full. You speak as if goverment and business are two different things, IMO they haven’t been since the end of WW2.

323

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
Until the government gets out of our way, lower taxes, less regulation, and more freedom, then the businesses will start to spend money on their businesses.
[/quote]

Government and business are the same thing.
I just don’t buy it…what kind of businesses are you refering to? what is going to create the demand?

324

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
And the fed doesn’t give free money. It’s free money to the banks that loan the money out for cars and houses mostly. Who does that really help? All you’ve done is now tied up future income for things NOW. that’s the problem with debt spending.[/quote]

Consider that debt spending is what has supported the economy for the last twenty years. What would today’s situation be like without it, ot tomorrow’s for that matter? [/quote]

We are up shit creek with out a paddle. Eventually, you have to let the economy catch up which will mean a period of shit. It’s just the truth. We’ve accelerated things to quickly and the machine couldn’t keep up with it.

But you’ll never see this happen, as I’ve said before, because letting people wallow in shit doesn’t get you voted into office.

325

The only way to save America is the same way people save themselves.

Balance your budget by getting rid of non-essential spending and invest in yourself first before others.

326

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
And the fed doesn’t give free money. It’s free money to the banks that loan the money out for cars and houses mostly. Who does that really help? All you’ve done is now tied up future income for things NOW. that’s the problem with debt spending.[/quote]

Consider that debt spending is what has supported the economy for the last twenty years. What would today’s situation be like without it, ot tomorrow’s for that matter? [/quote]

We are up shit creek with out a paddle. Eventually, you have to let the economy catch up which will mean a period of shit. It’s just the truth. We’ve accelerated things to quickly and the machine couldn’t keep up with it.

But you’ll never see this happen, as I’ve said before, because letting people wallow in shit doesn’t get you voted into office.[/quote]

I agree…so the remaining question is: What are we going to with all the people?

327

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
And the fed doesn’t give free money. It’s free money to the banks that loan the money out for cars and houses mostly. Who does that really help? All you’ve done is now tied up future income for things NOW. that’s the problem with debt spending.[/quote]

Consider that debt spending is what has supported the economy for the last twenty years. What would today’s situation be like without it, ot tomorrow’s for that matter? [/quote]

We are up shit creek with out a paddle. Eventually, you have to let the economy catch up which will mean a period of shit. It’s just the truth. We’ve accelerated things to quickly and the machine couldn’t keep up with it.

But you’ll never see this happen, as I’ve said before, because letting people wallow in shit doesn’t get you voted into office.[/quote]

I agree…so the remaining question is: What are we going to with all the people?
[/quote]

Remember what happened during the World Wars? Tighetn your belts people. It’s going to be a rough ride at some point. I’m sure during most of our lifetimes. It’s simply inevitable unless there’s some miraculous discovery in energy or resources or something that drives real demand in a macro-economic scale.

328

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
And the fed doesn’t give free money. It’s free money to the banks that loan the money out for cars and houses mostly. Who does that really help? All you’ve done is now tied up future income for things NOW. that’s the problem with debt spending.[/quote]

Consider that debt spending is what has supported the economy for the last twenty years. What would today’s situation be like without it, ot tomorrow’s for that matter? [/quote]

We are up shit creek with out a paddle. Eventually, you have to let the economy catch up which will mean a period of shit. It’s just the truth. We’ve accelerated things to quickly and the machine couldn’t keep up with it.

But you’ll never see this happen, as I’ve said before, because letting people wallow in shit doesn’t get you voted into office.[/quote]

I agree…so the remaining question is: What are we going to with all the people?
[/quote]

Remember what happened during the World Wars?[/quote]

Rationing, price controls, a job for everyone?

329

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
If years of ‘essentailly’ free money hasn’t spurred demand, what could?[/quote]

Demand comes from Main Street. All this free money has only helped the wealthy. They have all refinanced all their long term debt at historically low interest rates, or they arbitraged their bets (borrowed from the Fed at near 0% and loaned out or more likely invested in the stock market at 25-30%. When the money comes due they will sell all their investments pay off the loans and keep the difference. You and I can not borrow from the fed, only the banks.

There was free money, but the acceleration of the money has been low. The Banks are not lending like they did before the bubble. If the banks can not lend to Main Street then the acceleration of money stays low and there is no inflation. Businesses are scared where this country is going. Until the government gets out of our way, lower taxes, less regulation, and more freedom, then the businesses will start to spend money on their businesses.
[/quote]

You describe the situation well, and the trickle down theory (which we have employed for at least the last thirty years) states that the ‘good times’ will reach the bottom once the bellies at the top are full. You speak as if goverment and business are two different things, IMO they haven’t been since the end of WW2. [/quote]

Government regulates business. And I would claim that Large Businesses love a lot of regulations, because it increased the cost of entry. Who hurts the most under regulations? Small Businesses. We have pretty much an Oligarchy in the Banking Industry because there are too many regulations.

330

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
The only way to save America is the same way people save themselves.

Balance your budget by getting rid of non-essential spending and invest in yourself first before others.[/quote]

I like this a bunch.

People will not want to hear this, but this is why the Tea Party is hated by both sides of the aisle, and why they are getting traction from Main Street.

331

Tea party is a fundamentalist org. The equivalent of American Taliban . Control and uneducate

332

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
If years of ‘essentailly’ free money hasn’t spurred demand, what could?[/quote]

Demand comes from Main Street. All this free money has only helped the wealthy. They have all refinanced all their long term debt at historically low interest rates, or they arbitraged their bets (borrowed from the Fed at near 0% and loaned out or more likely invested in the stock market at 25-30%. When the money comes due they will sell all their investments pay off the loans and keep the difference. You and I can not borrow from the fed, only the banks.

There was free money, but the acceleration of the money has been low. The Banks are not lending like they did before the bubble. If the banks can not lend to Main Street then the acceleration of money stays low and there is no inflation. Businesses are scared where this country is going. Until the government gets out of our way, lower taxes, less regulation, and more freedom, then the businesses will start to spend money on their businesses.
[/quote]

You describe the situation well, and the trickle down theory (which we have employed for at least the last thirty years) states that the ‘good times’ will reach the bottom once the bellies at the top are full. You speak as if goverment and business are two different things, IMO they haven’t been since the end of WW2. [/quote]

Government regulates business. And I would claim that Large Businesses love a lot of regulations, because it increased the cost of entry. Who hurts the most under regulations? Small Businesses. We have pretty much an Oligarchy in the Banking Industry because there are too many regulations.
[/quote]

Large Business loves our tax code

333

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
If years of ‘essentailly’ free money hasn’t spurred demand, what could?[/quote]

Demand comes from Main Street. All this free money has only helped the wealthy. They have all refinanced all their long term debt at historically low interest rates, or they arbitraged their bets (borrowed from the Fed at near 0% and loaned out or more likely invested in the stock market at 25-30%. When the money comes due they will sell all their investments pay off the loans and keep the difference. You and I can not borrow from the fed, only the banks.

There was free money, but the acceleration of the money has been low. The Banks are not lending like they did before the bubble. If the banks can not lend to Main Street then the acceleration of money stays low and there is no inflation. Businesses are scared where this country is going. Until the government gets out of our way, lower taxes, less regulation, and more freedom, then the businesses will start to spend money on their businesses.
[/quote]

You describe the situation well, and the trickle down theory (which we have employed for at least the last thirty years) states that the ‘good times’ will reach the bottom once the bellies at the top are full. You speak as if goverment and business are two different things, IMO they haven’t been since the end of WW2. [/quote]

Government regulates business. And I would claim that Large Businesses love a lot of regulations, because it increased the cost of entry. Who hurts the most under regulations? Small Businesses. We have pretty much an Oligarchy in the Banking Industry because there are too many regulations.
[/quote]

Large Business loves our tax code [/quote]

It’s actually extremely expensive. I work for a large, international bank now and the cost of regulation is astronomical. We are currently DOUBLING the size of our internal audit department to aid in appeasing the regulators. That’s not counting our Compliance, Risk, Anti Money Laundering, etc. etc. groups who are all pretty non-value add.

This happens in all large businesses and the costs of all this obviously get’s passed on to the consumer on top of the consumer tax dollars going to government oversight of all of this.

EDIT: I’m not sure if big business LIKES it, but I’m sure they see the inherent advantages in it. But it does kill competition since those kinds of expenses create a nearly impossible barrier to entry.

334

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
The only way to save America is the same way people save themselves.

Balance your budget by getting rid of non-essential spending and invest in yourself first before others.[/quote]

I like this a bunch.

People will not want to hear this, but this is why the Tea Party is hated by both sides of the aisle, and why they are getting traction from Main Street.
[/quote]

Yes; but it’s not revolutionary advice…some us grew up on a diet chock full of such ‘proverbal wisdom’.
The problem lies in the landscape such wisdom is to be practiced. The US is no longer a producer economy, it’s a consumer economy. When we spend we dig the debt hole deeper, when we save we starve the engine. The last twenty years were artificially supported and the bills comming due.
Again I ask…what are we going to do with all the people?

335

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
If years of ‘essentailly’ free money hasn’t spurred demand, what could?[/quote]

Demand comes from Main Street. All this free money has only helped the wealthy. They have all refinanced all their long term debt at historically low interest rates, or they arbitraged their bets (borrowed from the Fed at near 0% and loaned out or more likely invested in the stock market at 25-30%. When the money comes due they will sell all their investments pay off the loans and keep the difference. You and I can not borrow from the fed, only the banks.

There was free money, but the acceleration of the money has been low. The Banks are not lending like they did before the bubble. If the banks can not lend to Main Street then the acceleration of money stays low and there is no inflation. Businesses are scared where this country is going. Until the government gets out of our way, lower taxes, less regulation, and more freedom, then the businesses will start to spend money on their businesses.
[/quote]

You describe the situation well, and the trickle down theory (which we have employed for at least the last thirty years) states that the ‘good times’ will reach the bottom once the bellies at the top are full. You speak as if goverment and business are two different things, IMO they haven’t been since the end of WW2. [/quote]

Government regulates business. And I would claim that Large Businesses love a lot of regulations, because it increased the cost of entry. Who hurts the most under regulations? Small Businesses. We have pretty much an Oligarchy in the Banking Industry because there are too many regulations.
[/quote]

Large Business loves our tax code [/quote]

It’s actually extremely expensive. I work for a large, international bank now and the cost of regulation is astronomical. We are currently DOUBLING the size of our internal audit department to aid in appeasing the regulators. That’s not counting our Compliance, Risk, Anti Money Laundering, etc. etc. groups who are all pretty non-value add.

This happens in all large businesses and the costs of all this obviously get’s passed on to the consumer on top of the consumer tax dollars going to government oversight of all of this.

EDIT: I’m not sure if big business LIKES it, but I’m sure they see the inherent advantages in it. But it does kill competition since those kinds of expenses create a nearly impossible barrier to entry.[/quote]

It costs me millions in regulation also :slight_smile:

336

I haven’t seen anyone get past the truth about minimum wage vs. welfare.

Isn’t it only right that people should be able to earn a living wage on 40 hours a week worth of work, and maybe working towards socking up money, or maybe affording some sort of better schooling for your kids if you work more hours.

People from up top look at the situation of the poor and don’t see the lack of financial mobility or opportunity. They only care about their own well being as usual.

Reaganites, the Young America’s folk are some of the worst tippers and cheapest folks I’ve come across. They have a reputation for being notoriously cheap… 1000 points of light and all (I know this is from Bush Sr.) they aren’t taking part in any sort of trickle down lol. I don’t know that many have.

337

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
The only way to save America is the same way people save themselves.

Balance your budget by getting rid of non-essential spending and invest in yourself first before others.[/quote]

I like this a bunch.

People will not want to hear this, but this is why the Tea Party is hated by both sides of the aisle, and why they are getting traction from Main Street.
[/quote]

Yes; but it’s not revolutionary advice…some us grew up on a diet chock full of such ‘proverbal wisdom’.
The problem lies in the landscape such wisdom is to be practiced. The US is no longer a producer economy, it’s a consumer economy. When we spend we dig the debt hole deeper, when we save we starve the engine. The last twenty years were artificially supported and the bills comming due.
Again I ask…what are we going to do with all the people? [/quote]

Death Star? :slight_smile:

338

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
I agree…so the remaining question is: What are we going to with all the people?
[/quote]

Without some record innovation that transforms the landscape, it is just going to take time.

What do we do with all the people?

The same shit we’ve been doing with them for 1000’s of years.

339

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
I agree…so the remaining question is: What are we going to with all the people?
[/quote]

Without some record innovation that transforms the landscape, it is just going to take time.

What do we do with all the people?

The same shit we’ve been doing with them for 1000’s of years. [/quote]

That’s exactly my point. The damage has been done. All you can do is wait for it to unwind and not screw it up next time. There is no solution where some people will suffer.

Take money from the people who have it a distrbute it? Where’s the motivation to do anything then? I’ve seen this first hand in Europe. I would NEVER start a business in Europe. It was extremely disturbing how little work people did, how entitled they were while the owners struggled working ungodly hours to make sure the business stayed in business. It was the same thing in the companies I audited in France, Netherlands, Austria, UK, Germany (although Germany wasn’t to bad, but that’s a cultural thing), and Italy.

I had one company fire someone for not showing up to work for months only to then be sued for wrongful termination, the person win 2 YEARS OF SALARY and they got another job at a DIRECT COMPETITOR within months of the firing. How pissed would you be if you were the owner of that company? And that is NORMAL in Europe.

340

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

Large Business loves our tax code [/quote]

You repeatedly like to show you haven’t the slightest clue WTF you are talking about when it comes to taxation. Why is that?

Yes, I’m sure paying ten of thousands of dollars to file what amounts to an information compliance test is what every company loves.

You don’t understand business, the concept of overhead or taxation to any degree that makes your comments on the subjects noteworthy in any manor other than they take people’s time to point out how off the wall and inaccurate they are.