Minimum Wage, Again

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
261

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/20/by-the-numbers-the-incredibly-shrinking-american-middle-class/[/quote]

Ok, so again why are notarized, audited, and checked financial statements from Walmart suspect to you? These particular records are far more stringently checked than a basic CPA tax return and audit. So, why are they suspect to you and why specifically do you suspect the profit margin to be wrong?[/quote]

Dude, the progressives said so… That is all you need to know. Anything done by a group of people called a corporation is bad and evil, smoke and mirrors. Anything done by a group of people called government is automatically more trustworthy because voting, lol…

Forget the fact that regulatory bodies audit the audits, and the rules after the Enron’s of the world make lying on a financial the equivalent of a death sentence…

I like how GAAP is now “smoke and mirrors”. I wish I had the stones to talk like I had a clue about subjects I didn’t understand.

262

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/20/by-the-numbers-the-incredibly-shrinking-american-middle-class/[/quote]

Ok, so again why are notarized, audited, and checked financial statements from Walmart suspect to you? These particular records are far more stringently checked than a basic CPA tax return and audit. So, why are they suspect to you and why specifically do you suspect the profit margin to be wrong?[/quote]

Dude, the progressives said so… That is all you need to know. Anything done by a group of people called a corporation is bad and evil, smoke and mirrors. Anything done by a group of people called government is automatically more trustworthy because voting, lol…

Forget the fact that regulatory bodies audit the audits, and the rules after the Enron’s of the world make lying on a financial the equivalent of a death sentence…

I like how GAAP is now “smoke and mirrors”. I wish I had the stones to talk like I had a clue about subjects I didn’t understand. [/quote]
Maybe the executive branch needs an agency to look at public financial statements. SEC is probably a good choice. Maybe a public company accounting oversight board of some kind…

263

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

Yes, many with college degrees that will be able to do probably twice the work or be twice as productive as your uneducated tard flipping burgers. They will require half the work or a large percentage less to run the place. So, now you have taken jobs completely two fold from the “poor”.

[/quote]

In what alternate universe do you live where people with college degrees do twice the MANUAL LABOR as those without? Most of the people I know that have degrees did so because they are labor averse and physically soft. Yes there are exceptions, but speaking in generalities someone with an twelfth grade or less education will out dig/roof/assemble someone with a BA most of the time.

For the record I don’t believe these to be $15 an hour jobs but a reasonable wage and some basic human dignity doesn’t seem to be too much to ask for.

[/quote]

We were talking about working at McDonalds not digging, roofing, or assembling, which can be very very physically demanding. I worked at UPS loading trucks many summers throughout high school and college. It was a physically demanding job, but I never said oh hey I need more money because I can’t live on this.

And I don’t think being productive has anything to do with a degree or merits on your wall. It has to do with pride. Pride in all things you do no matter how menial. Do everything to the best you are capable of even if it is flipping burgers or whatever.

A college degree shows mainly that you have the ability to stick with something and follow directions/ perform in a structured environment.

And I don’t have a college degree because I am adverse to physical labor or soft. I have one and am pursuing a professional degree because guess what? My potential for higher income is phenomenally higher and my body will wear out long before my mind.

264

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/20/by-the-numbers-the-incredibly-shrinking-american-middle-class/[/quote]

Ok, so again why are notarized, audited, and checked financial statements from Walmart suspect to you? These particular records are far more stringently checked than a basic CPA tax return and audit. So, why are they suspect to you and why specifically do you suspect the profit margin to be wrong?[/quote]

Dude, the progressives said so… That is all you need to know. Anything done by a group of people called a corporation is bad and evil, smoke and mirrors. Anything done by a group of people called government is automatically more trustworthy because voting, lol…

Forget the fact that regulatory bodies audit the audits, and the rules after the Enron’s of the world make lying on a financial the equivalent of a death sentence…

I like how GAAP is now “smoke and mirrors”. I wish I had the stones to talk like I had a clue about subjects I didn’t understand. [/quote]

This quote from the article Pit posted speaks more volume than people realize:

“Share of self-described middle-class adults who say itâ??s more difficult now than a decade ago for middle-class people to maintain their standard of living: 85”

85% say it’s difficult to maintain their standard of living. So let’s say the middle class makes up the majority of the US, which it does.

I’m in the middle class. I have absolutely no problem keeping my standard of living. If everyone would live within their means and not rely so much on debt, then the price of goods would come down on their own. I have only student loan debt and house debt now. My girlfriend and I are positioned where we can easily survive off of one of our incomes tomrrow if we were unfortunate to lose one of our earnings.

But that’s not how american’s work. They want everything NOW. Rack up those credit cards. Go get $30k car loans when you are only making $50k/year. Get the biggest house you can possibly afford!! And then you wonder why you can’t make ends meet at the end of the year.

265

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/20/by-the-numbers-the-incredibly-shrinking-american-middle-class/[/quote]

Ok, so again why are notarized, audited, and checked financial statements from Walmart suspect to you? These particular records are far more stringently checked than a basic CPA tax return and audit. So, why are they suspect to you and why specifically do you suspect the profit margin to be wrong?[/quote]

Dude, the progressives said so… That is all you need to know. Anything done by a group of people called a corporation is bad and evil, smoke and mirrors. Anything done by a group of people called government is automatically more trustworthy because voting, lol…

Forget the fact that regulatory bodies audit the audits, and the rules after the Enron’s of the world make lying on a financial the equivalent of a death sentence…

I like how GAAP is now “smoke and mirrors”. I wish I had the stones to talk like I had a clue about subjects I didn’t understand. [/quote]

This quote from the article Pit posted speaks more volume than people realize:

“Share of self-described middle-class adults who say itâ??s more difficult now than a decade ago for middle-class people to maintain their standard of living: 85”

85% say it’s difficult to maintain their standard of living. So let’s say the middle class makes up the majority of the US, which it does.

I’m in the middle class. I have absolutely no problem keeping my standard of living. If everyone would live within their means and not rely so much on debt, then the price of goods would come down on their own. I have only student loan debt and house debt now. My girlfriend and I are positioned where we can easily survive off of one of our incomes tomrrow if we were unfortunate to lose one of our earnings.

But that’s not how american’s work. They want everything NOW. Rack up those credit cards. Go get $30k car loans when you are only making $50k/year. Get the biggest house you can possibly afford!! And then you wonder why you can’t make ends meet at the end of the year.

[/quote]

Exactly, maybe the problem is everyone is increasing their expectations of what constitutes their standard of living. It greatly pisses me off to here people poor mouth when they are driving a brand new car every 3 years, have a smart phone stuck to their ear, and are wearing $100 jeans.

266

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/20/by-the-numbers-the-incredibly-shrinking-american-middle-class/[/quote]

Ok, so again why are notarized, audited, and checked financial statements from Walmart suspect to you? These particular records are far more stringently checked than a basic CPA tax return and audit. So, why are they suspect to you and why specifically do you suspect the profit margin to be wrong?[/quote]

Dude, the progressives said so… That is all you need to know. Anything done by a group of people called a corporation is bad and evil, smoke and mirrors. Anything done by a group of people called government is automatically more trustworthy because voting, lol…

Forget the fact that regulatory bodies audit the audits, and the rules after the Enron’s of the world make lying on a financial the equivalent of a death sentence…

I like how GAAP is now “smoke and mirrors”. I wish I had the stones to talk like I had a clue about subjects I didn’t understand. [/quote]

This quote from the article Pit posted speaks more volume than people realize:

“Share of self-described middle-class adults who say itÃ?¢??s more difficult now than a decade ago for middle-class people to maintain their standard of living: 85”

85% say it’s difficult to maintain their standard of living. So let’s say the middle class makes up the majority of the US, which it does.

I’m in the middle class. I have absolutely no problem keeping my standard of living. If everyone would live within their means and not rely so much on debt, then the price of goods would come down on their own. I have only student loan debt and house debt now. My girlfriend and I are positioned where we can easily survive off of one of our incomes tomrrow if we were unfortunate to lose one of our earnings.

But that’s not how american’s work. They want everything NOW. Rack up those credit cards. Go get $30k car loans when you are only making $50k/year. Get the biggest house you can possibly afford!! And then you wonder why you can’t make ends meet at the end of the year.

[/quote]

Exactly, maybe the problem is everyone is increasing their expectations of what constitutes their standard of living. It greatly pisses me off to here people poor mouth when they are driving a brand new car every 3 years, have a smart phone stuck to their ear, and are wearing $100 jeans. [/quote]

And have 3 to 5 kids with expensive clothes and $200 shoes on.

267

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/20/by-the-numbers-the-incredibly-shrinking-american-middle-class/[/quote]

Ok, so again why are notarized, audited, and checked financial statements from Walmart suspect to you? These particular records are far more stringently checked than a basic CPA tax return and audit. So, why are they suspect to you and why specifically do you suspect the profit margin to be wrong?[/quote]

Dude, the progressives said so… That is all you need to know. Anything done by a group of people called a corporation is bad and evil, smoke and mirrors. Anything done by a group of people called government is automatically more trustworthy because voting, lol…

Forget the fact that regulatory bodies audit the audits, and the rules after the Enron’s of the world make lying on a financial the equivalent of a death sentence…

I like how GAAP is now “smoke and mirrors”. I wish I had the stones to talk like I had a clue about subjects I didn’t understand. [/quote]

This quote from the article Pit posted speaks more volume than people realize:

“Share of self-described middle-class adults who say itâ??s more difficult now than a decade ago for middle-class people to maintain their standard of living: 85”

85% say it’s difficult to maintain their standard of living. So let’s say the middle class makes up the majority of the US, which it does.

I’m in the middle class. I have absolutely no problem keeping my standard of living. If everyone would live within their means and not rely so much on debt, then the price of goods would come down on their own. I have only student loan debt and house debt now. My girlfriend and I are positioned where we can easily survive off of one of our incomes tomrrow if we were unfortunate to lose one of our earnings.

But that’s not how american’s work. They want everything NOW. Rack up those credit cards. Go get $30k car loans when you are only making $50k/year. Get the biggest house you can possibly afford!! And then you wonder why you can’t make ends meet at the end of the year.

[/quote]

I moved out on my own in 1977 , I have seen wages stay the same and the cost of living sky rocket . I can give you numbers but I will warn you it is boring :slight_smile:

268

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
But that’s not how american’s work. They want everything NOW. Rack up those credit cards. Go get $30k car loans when you are only making $50k/year. Get the biggest house you can possibly afford!! And then you wonder why you can’t make ends meet at the end of the year.
[/quote]

That is exactly what is desired by the business, finance, and political leaders of the country.
An individuals value to the US economy is based on consumption. If your not buying shit, your not contributing.

269

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/20/by-the-numbers-the-incredibly-shrinking-american-middle-class/[/quote]

Ok, so again why are notarized, audited, and checked financial statements from Walmart suspect to you? These particular records are far more stringently checked than a basic CPA tax return and audit. So, why are they suspect to you and why specifically do you suspect the profit margin to be wrong?[/quote]

Dude, the progressives said so… That is all you need to know. Anything done by a group of people called a corporation is bad and evil, smoke and mirrors. Anything done by a group of people called government is automatically more trustworthy because voting, lol…

Forget the fact that regulatory bodies audit the audits, and the rules after the Enron’s of the world make lying on a financial the equivalent of a death sentence…

I like how GAAP is now “smoke and mirrors”. I wish I had the stones to talk like I had a clue about subjects I didn’t understand. [/quote]

This quote from the article Pit posted speaks more volume than people realize:

“Share of self-described middle-class adults who say itÃ??Ã?¢??s more difficult now than a decade ago for middle-class people to maintain their standard of living: 85”

85% say it’s difficult to maintain their standard of living. So let’s say the middle class makes up the majority of the US, which it does.

I’m in the middle class. I have absolutely no problem keeping my standard of living. If everyone would live within their means and not rely so much on debt, then the price of goods would come down on their own. I have only student loan debt and house debt now. My girlfriend and I are positioned where we can easily survive off of one of our incomes tomrrow if we were unfortunate to lose one of our earnings.

But that’s not how american’s work. They want everything NOW. Rack up those credit cards. Go get $30k car loans when you are only making $50k/year. Get the biggest house you can possibly afford!! And then you wonder why you can’t make ends meet at the end of the year.

[/quote]

I moved out on my own in 1977 , I have seen wages stay the same and the cost of living sky rocket . I can give you numbers but I will warn you it is boring :slight_smile:
[/quote]

And at the root of it all…debt spending. If there wasn’t debt spending OR a natural disaster which causes the supply to drop sharply, it would be near impossible for the cost of living to materialy exceed the growth/fall/stagnation of wages.

EDIT: Outsourcing does play a factor into this, but it’s only temporary as everything evens out. Today, many companies, including the one I work for, are beginning to bring back the work they’ve outsourced do other countries because the product they are getting is not as good as what they can produce here and is now only a marginal cash savings.

270

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I moved out on my own in 1977 , I have seen wages stay the same and the cost of living sky rocket . I can give you numbers but I will warn you it is boring :slight_smile:
[/quote]
I would like to see the numbers.

271

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I moved out on my own in 1977 , I have seen wages stay the same and the cost of living sky rocket . I can give you numbers but I will warn you it is boring :slight_smile:
[/quote]
I would like to see the numbers.[/quote]

In 1977 my rent was $35 find me rent to day like that . I heated a mobile home in OH the whole year for less than $200 I was making $30,000 a year

272

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I moved out on my own in 1977 , I have seen wages stay the same and the cost of living sky rocket . I can give you numbers but I will warn you it is boring :slight_smile:
[/quote]
I would like to see the numbers.[/quote]

In 1977 my rent was $35 find me rent to day like that . I heated a mobile home in OH the whole year for less than $200 I was making $30,000 a year
[/quote]

Oh, I thought you were going to give numbers that actually mean something, not just your personal situation. The average rent in 1977, according to thepeoplehistory.com, was $240. The average income, according to the same source, was $15,000. You may be able to rent a mobile home in Ohio today for just over 1/8 the national average. I don’t know; I’ve never looked into it.

273

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I moved out on my own in 1977 , I have seen wages stay the same and the cost of living sky rocket . I can give you numbers but I will warn you it is boring :slight_smile:
[/quote]
I would like to see the numbers.[/quote]

In 1977 my rent was $35 find me rent to day like that . I heated a mobile home in OH the whole year for less than $200 I was making $30,000 a year
[/quote]

Oh, I thought you were going to give numbers that actually mean something, not just your personal situation. The average rent in 1977, according to thepeoplehistory.com, was $240. The average income, according to the same source, was $15,000. You may be able to rent a mobile home in Ohio today for just over 1/8 the national average. I don’t know; I’ve never looked into it.[/quote]

The cost of living keeps moving up and the wages flat line . That is fact . It was a whole lot easier to live the farther you go back , OK i know I have to say before Reagan

274

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I moved out on my own in 1977 , I have seen wages stay the same and the cost of living sky rocket . I can give you numbers but I will warn you it is boring :slight_smile:
[/quote]
I would like to see the numbers.[/quote]

In 1977 my rent was $35 find me rent to day like that . I heated a mobile home in OH the whole year for less than $200 I was making $30,000 a year
[/quote]

Oh, I thought you were going to give numbers that actually mean something, not just your personal situation. The average rent in 1977, according to thepeoplehistory.com, was $240. The average income, according to the same source, was $15,000. You may be able to rent a mobile home in Ohio today for just over 1/8 the national average. I don’t know; I’ve never looked into it.[/quote]

The cost of living keeps moving up and the wages flat line . That is fact . It was a whole lot easier to live the farther you go back , OK i know I have to say before Reagan
[/quote]

My Grandmother, God rest her soul, lived through the Great Depression. Any one today not know where there next meal is coming from? My Grand Mother would go a day or two with out food, because there was none unless you grew it.

275

dmaddox, to be fair, your grandmother probably just THOUGHT she was hungry, because she did not realize the government was filling her stomach with its good each time it destroyed food during the depression, right?

(The link has little to do with my response, just thought it was an interesting read)

276

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I moved out on my own in 1977 , I have seen wages stay the same and the cost of living sky rocket . I can give you numbers but I will warn you it is boring :slight_smile:
[/quote]
I would like to see the numbers.[/quote]

In 1977 my rent was $35 find me rent to day like that . I heated a mobile home in OH the whole year for less than $200 I was making $30,000 a year
[/quote]

Oh, I thought you were going to give numbers that actually mean something, not just your personal situation. The average rent in 1977, according to thepeoplehistory.com, was $240. The average income, according to the same source, was $15,000. You may be able to rent a mobile home in Ohio today for just over 1/8 the national average. I don’t know; I’ve never looked into it.[/quote]

The cost of living keeps moving up and the wages flat line . That is fact . It was a whole lot easier to live the farther you go back , OK i know I have to say before Reagan
[/quote]

My Grandmother, God rest her soul, lived through the Great Depression. Any one today not know where there next meal is coming from? My Grand Mother would go a day or two with out food, because there was none unless you grew it.
[/quote]

God bless your Grandmother but she has nothing to do with this conversation , neither does my father :slight_smile: Try the Depression in Appalachia

277

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
My Grandmother, God rest her soul, lived through the Great Depression. Any one today not know where there next meal is coming from? My Grand Mother would go a day or two with out food, because there was none unless you grew it.
[/quote]

Yes, this was common during that period.
Then the leadership of the nation went to work to create a system where people would have some measure of protection from exposure, hunger, and thirst. WTF is the current leadership doing other than pilfering the treasury.

BTW…your not proposing that we should return to a depression era economy are you? That was a great period for landlords!

278

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I moved out on my own in 1977 , I have seen wages stay the same and the cost of living sky rocket . I can give you numbers but I will warn you it is boring :slight_smile:
[/quote]
I would like to see the numbers.[/quote]

In 1977 my rent was $35 find me rent to day like that . I heated a mobile home in OH the whole year for less than $200 I was making $30,000 a year
[/quote]

$30k in 1977 is the equivalent of $155k/year today.

Average salary in 1977: $15k
Average salary in today in equivalent buying power: $58k
Average rent in 1977: $240/mo
As a % of the average salary: 1.6%

Average salary in 2012: $44k
This salary worth in 1977: $11.5k
Average rent in 2012: $884
As a % of the average salary: 2%

Average mobile home rent in 2013: $200-300/month
As a % of the average salary: 0.4%-0.6%

Your 1977 rent: $35/month
As a % of the your 1977 average salary: 0.2%

Doesn’t seem to crazy to me. I would expect living expenses to go up b/c there is a fixed amount of property available and an ever growing population, but we aren’t that far off from 1977. Certainly not in epidemic status.

279

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I moved out on my own in 1977 , I have seen wages stay the same and the cost of living sky rocket . I can give you numbers but I will warn you it is boring :slight_smile:
[/quote]
I would like to see the numbers.[/quote]

In 1977 my rent was $35 find me rent to day like that . I heated a mobile home in OH the whole year for less than $200 I was making $30,000 a year
[/quote]

$30k in 1977 is the equivalent of $155k/year today.

Average salary in 1977: $15k
Average salary in today in equivalent buying power: $58k
Average rent in 1977: $240/mo
As a % of the average salary: 1.6%

Average salary in 2012: $44k
This salary worth in 1977: $11.5k
Average rent in 2012: $884
As a % of the average salary: 2%

Average mobile home rent in 2013: $200-300/month
As a % of the average salary: 0.4%-0.6%

Your 1977 rent: $35/month
As a % of the your 1977 average salary: 0.2%

Doesn’t seem to crazy to me. I would expect living expenses to go up b/c there is a fixed amount of property available and an ever growing population, but we aren’t that far off from 1977. Certainly not in epidemic status.[/quote]

I was hoping somebody would crunch the numbers I suspected in my head.

280

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
I was hoping somebody would crunch the numbers I suspected in my head.[/quote]

I want to further add that I’m not blind to the perctange increase here. I mean we see basically a 25% increase in rent as a percentage of income. But again, Supply and Demand. Not to mention the significantly higher taxes imposed upon business owners which are then passed on to consumers. And taxes are more than just the items reported on W-2s. These all get passed on to the consumer.