Stu,
I think I may be dealing with a minor labrum tear in the shoulder.
Can you tell me a bit more about how yours felt prior to surgery so I can compare?
Thanks,
Tim
[quote]timmcbride00 wrote:
Stu,
I think I may be dealing with a minor labrum tear in the shoulder.
Can you tell me a bit more about how yours felt prior to surgery so I can compare?
Thanks,
Tim[/quote]
I know this can range quite a bit depending on the extent of the tear, any additional damage (rotator cuff related usually), and how much compound musculature youāve got surrounding the joint.
With my first labrum tear, it was just some weird dull pain at first, and then a little reluctance to do certain movements in the gym. As I engaged in PT for a couple of months just hoping to stabilize the area and avoid more serious options I felt more instability in the area. In this particular case, all parties weighing in agreed that as I had so much compound musculature surrounding the joint, even though the tear probably slowly developed over time, it was this final giving way that even brought it to my attention. This is why I went from feeling to 100% to considerably less so quickly.
My brother explained to me that most professional athletes are walking around with some minor labral tears, and that so long as everything is stable, and they can perform, thereās no absolute need for surgery. Of course as the PT didnāt seem to be improving my function, we finally got the MRI and saw just what we were dealing with.
My second tear (other shoulder) was probably similar in that it was a long time coming, and I didnāt notice any signs or symptoms until one day, my shoulder movements just seemed to feel a bitā¦ āclunky.ā The fluid circular fashion the limbs usually was able to float around in was just suddenly gone.
Now as Iām sure Iāve mentioned before, both of my brothers have had bother of their shoulders ādone.ā One brother was always complaining about his shoulders after training chest. To me, thatās a hell of a sign that something is up! It was explained to me though that as my brothers and I seem to have a genetic predispostion, if it didnāt happen to me by 40, it most certainly would have by 60.
While this doesnāt make me feel any better, it does make me wonder if as a society (or at least us meat heads and gym rats) we become more active, if the average human body is meant to deal with such extensive use. Weāre not talking the āI wanna be in shapeā folks, but think about your mind set when youāre running on all cylinders, strutting into the gym to ādestroyā chest, or back, or anything thatās going to put some serious movement, with some serious weights, on your shoulder girdles.
How ābadā are you feeling? Is it an obvious issue, or are we just talking a bit of tightness? Like I said, if this is something that can be addressed by other means that surgery, most doctors will push that route. The rehab after the actual procedures was not fun at all.
S
Stu,
Thanks for the information.
Regarding how ābadā it is:
At rest, there is occasionally a dull ache.
During just bodyweight movement, it generally feels OK, but in the end range of motion of shoulder flexion and extension it hurts. Pain felt mostly in the medial delt area, but sometimes the pain is hard to pinpoint.
With light weighted movement, there is some sharper pain. I tried a 30 pound overhead press a few days ago for example and it hurt.
I havenāt done anything heavy since June 4th. But back then, I would push through the pain of the light warmup sets and eventually I would get enough warmth/blood flow I guess to dull the pain and I could do the workout.
Occasionally, it would present like bicep tendinitis based on the pain location, but many other times the pain is elsewhere.
In terms of trying to deal with it:
I am now doing ZERO exercises that aggravate it.
I am doing V-squats (it has shoulder pads to take the arms out of the squat movement) and left arm work
After a workout, I am icing it (just in case it is aggravated) 24 hours. At all other times, I am using heat.
How I think I may have done it, by changing many training variables at once a few months back:
Bench went from two to three times per week
Added vertical jump training (many repetitive shoulder movements)
Added jump squats (jarring my shoulder in the low bar position)
Too many vertical pulls and not enough horizontal pulls
Grabbing basketball rim (maybe jerked the labrum??)
Added in behind the head shoulder press (albeit very light, but I was not used to this movement)
My shoulder started to hurt but I kept pushing through it until it got to a point that I couldnāt ignore it anymore.
I am an idiot. : )
Stu,
Is there anything to keep in mind for us normal people so that we dont become a mutant like yourself?
Ha haā¦ seriously though, anything to avoid to lower our risk of labrum issues, or is it essentially part of the game if you lift long enough?
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Stu,
Is there anything to keep in mind for us normal people so that we dont become a mutant like yourself?
Ha haā¦ seriously though, anything to avoid to lower our risk of labrum issues, or is it essentially part of the game if you lift long enough?[/quote]
Lol, well, first realize that with my brothers and myself, obviously there was a considerable amount of predisposition. As the surgeon first said to me, āfor all we know, your little 105 lb wife could have just naturally been born with stronger labrums than you.ā
So whether these issues surfaced by 40, or by 60, I think itās safe to say that it was in the cards somewhere. Of course 20+ years of training has to factor in, despite how cautious and smart I may have been.
It does make me wonder though, if the seemingly common amount of labrum issues I hear about - and not just among my gym buddies! - relates to other factors.
-Do the activities we consider āfunā past times, sports, etc pose more of a risk than we realize?
-Were these injuries around years and years ago, and people just either sucked it up, chalked matters up to a ābad shoulderā, and avoided certain things as they went on with their daily lives?
-Has the knowledge of training and diet reached the point where we can build muscular bodies that present an actual danger to their very structures? (Muscle strength > Joint integrity)
My brother tells me that a staggering majority of todayās professional athletes have some degree of labral tear at any time during games.
S
I think itās safe to say that as serious trainers, gym rats, even competitors, we take a degree of satisfaction in pushing ourselves. Heck, I find myself speaking with a bit of fondness when I reccount suffering during past contest preps. We donāt expect everyone to understand this mentality, itās just the way it is,ā¦ weāre tough SOBs when we need to be.
A couple of weeks ago, I was judging a contest, and was actually asked (again) to take the center seat and call a few classes (Nancy Andrews, head of the Wnbf, explained to me that as I heard earlier, she does indeed want me as a head judge in future contests). During one of the Masters classes, one of the gentlemen onstage started making horribly pained faces. I kept calling poses, giving adequate time for the judging panel to assess, make notes etc. The facial contortions kept coming, and suddenly, he hunched over, almost fighting the urge to completely double over in pain. As I had the microphone, I addressed the competitor, asking if he was alright, if he needed a moment, and called for one of the stage hands to bring him some water. Eventually, he seemed ok, and I got through the rest of the pre-judging as quickly as we could.
Now, as a competitor, I know full well that were I in his place, no one could have talked me into any other action besides gritting my teeth and toughing it out through the mandatories. I can still remember getting a horrible hamstring cramp during one particular contest, where luckily it was a rear pose, and my thoughts included only that the judges couldnt see the awfully pained faces I was making, and that while it indeed hurt like hell, the chances of my muscle spasming hard enough to create a serious injury were pretty low.
On this day though, as a judge, my first instinct was for this manās health and safety. I know full well that the price some people put their bodies through for the pride and sense of accomplishment that comes along with the āplastic trophyā can be staggering.
I like to think that in this current day, with so much āreal scienceā out there for competitors, that some of the really bad, sometimes unhealthy advice that has been around in gyms forever would fall by the wayside. Of course, maybe thatās why I only saw this occurance in an over 50 athleteā¦
Just thinking aloud.
S
Hereās something that Iām curious to hear thoughts on, especially from any competitors out there:
A contest happened recently, and of course, only one person can win, thatās part of the game, and as I always say, if you canāt deal with the game, donāt play. Sour grapes are a common thing, but then again, in this sport, so are coaches who sugar coat (lie?) to their clients to make them feel better, and of course to keep them as clients, and feel better about their reputations.
A particular young coach I know (damn smart kid, great competitor who I used to help out a lot, and who has relevant degrees as well as contest wins to his name) prepped his good friend for a contest. The competitor was very experienced himself, and unquestionably brought his best package Iāve ever seen. He easily won his open class. A few weeks later, one of the competitors he had beaten posts on social media how it was his first show, and it was only his lack of posing experience that resulted in his not winning the class.
I was there as a judge, and even called some of the classes on that day, and I can tell you that it 100% wasnāt the case.
Now, things being what they are today, obviously other competitors and coaches see this, and view it as a combination of disrespect, delusion, and who knows what else.
Iāve certainly seen plenty of competitors and coaches who are in denial of a number of things. Iāve also seen some ācoachesā who will say whatever they need to so they can keep their clients ($) no matter how silly it may sound to anyone who was in attendance at the contests they competed in.
I know that I improved from year to year because my friends and training partners were always honest with me, no matter how much I might not like what they had to tell me.
Would you prefer your coach be honest with you, or would your ego need soothing after someone who was obviously better on that day got the nod from the judges?
S
Iām not a competitor, but I have seen that scenario play out in many different forms. People like to coddle rather than be truthful, with the excuse that they donāt want to be mean. Itās so widespread now that itās expected and anyone willing to give an honest opinion, no matter how tactfully stated, is just being an asshole.
Honesty is definitely better, without a doubt.
Honesty.
Itās the reason I wonāt hire a coach anymore. I had an experience where I hired someone who shortly thereafter became a IFBB Pro in womenās bodybuilding. I said I only wanted to compete if I could finish in the top 3. She said she could guarantee it. So I paid her and I lost 60 lbs in 10 weeks, got last in my weight class, deserved it, and looked worse than I had when I had done my own prep a year before.
Some have said to me that she could not guarantee me a placing. True, but then she should not have. A week before the competition I asked her how much muscle I had lost, and she said none. So I decided I would not hire anyone anymore, and I would not hire her for sure.
Iād want my coach to be brutally honest with me in private, and praise me in public. 
I certainly wouldnāt want him talking about how crappy I looked to everyone else.
I like that quote about being honest in private but always praising in public. As a coach, Iāve had to have a a few āyou might not be ready when you want to beā talks with clients. I donāt think it reflects on me as a coach mind you, merely that some people donāt realize whatās possible (in a healthy and same manner!) in a certain time frame.
My old training partner was always brutal if not arguably mean in his assessment of my physique leading up to shows. As he always described it, I didnāt need another cheerleader. I needed someone who didnāt care about hurting my feelings enough to be honest with me.
I guess when youāre relying on coaching to pay your bills, thereās a certain line that you must decide how far you want to step over it.
-do you lie in order to keep competitors as clients? (It was politics! You were robbed!)
-do you exaggerate your experience so you draw a certain type of clients? (Doing a few shows and maybe placing 5th one doesnāt make you a great competitor in my opinion)
-do you reuse the exact same plans over and over and charge as if they were āindividualizedā plans?
As always, these are my own thoughts and ramblings, so feel free to disagree if youād like
S
Hey Stu. Do you coach full time or is it still just a side thing? Would you say you have a constant steady flow of clients or do you have enough inquires that you choose who you want to work with?
I ask because my friend would like to start coaching online, eventually full time but, is not sure if certain criteria is needed for that level. i.e winning a contest or even getting contest lean.
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Hey Stu. Do you coach full time or is it still just a side thing? Would you say you have a constant steady flow of clients or do you have enough inquires that you choose who you want to work with?
I ask because my friend would like to start coaching online, eventually full time but, is not sure if certain criteria is needed for that level. i.e winning a contest or even getting contest lean.[/quote]
Itās part time, but admitedly itās gotten a bit bigger than I thought it would. The online thing has been great because somehow Iāve been able to get a steady stream of clients from Australia and England. Of course having a pretty darn good track as a competitor in my own right, as well as my record with my local clients (who are seen at some well known and competitor populated gym), has really resulted in the whole āword of mouthā reputation around NY. In fact, I look at other trainers and coaches constantly and pretty shamelessly fishing for clients all over social media and web forums, and I realize how lucky Iāve been doing next to no advertising aside from giving out t-shirts and hats to my clients.
Having a full time job that provides me with stability, health insurance, and a fairly good amount of off time for my family, means that I donāt have to take every inquiry I get. In fact, I have a limit on how many monthly people I can realistically handle before I know Iād find myself resorting to so many of the tactics that I see other well known, and popular coaches do - and letās be honest here, they have to! Thereās no way they can have 100 monthly clients that are all getting their moneyās worth of individual attention each week. So again, Iām lucky in that this is still fun for me, and not quite a job, but yes, it makes a very nice addition to my annual income no question.
As far as criteria goes, Iāve always said that there are two routes for someone earning my respect for their opinions about training and nutrition:
1- Walking the walk. If someone has consistently ābrought itā, either winning, or placing in the a top spot at more than a handful of contests, then IMO, itās not by accident. Yes, their experiences may not always translate to everyone else, but, more often than not, theyāve learned a hell of a lot on their journey, and such a run doesnāt happen by accident.
2- Formal education. This doesnāt mean that the person is correct in every assertation 100% of the time, it merely means that they have been made familiar with what the current (hopefully) prevailing positions are by the experts in the field and some methods to applying them. I will say though, that in this current era of arm chair experts and keyboard warriors who just quote pubmed studies, or answer every questions with āLyle saysā¦ā, āAlan saysā¦ā or āLayne saysā¦ā does leave a slightly bad taste in my mouth.
Ideally, having a bit of both aināt a bad thing. One of my current clients is a personal trainer, and as heās improved consistently working with me, Iāve had quite a few of his clients become my clients just for program and diet design. Its really a great situation for both of us as I get a nice influx of new people, and he gets to help them follow a plan that will cover all their bases and guarantee results.
Iām sure as a new trainer, trying to make a name and hack out a living for yourself solely in an online manner would be a considerably tough endeavor.
S
Stu what is your opinion on Peri-Workout nutrition? Is it dependent on:
Training volume
natural vs assisted
Gaining vs Cutting
I have read on many forums that it is not as useful when natural and that making sure you had carbs in your meals before hand as well as a meal at a reasonable time afterwards you are more than covered.
I am about to start a cut and if worth it want to make sure I implement it correctly.
Hey Stu,
I would love your insight on when someone is able to reverse diet into a competition, how do you feel is the best way to gradually add in carbs? I am starting around my peri-nutrition. Iāve always maintained carbs post workout (~40 grams), but now I am adding it intra-workout (~20 grams). After this point, would you feel adding more to the intra and post workout shakes would be beneficial or adding pre-workout carbs?
Your expertise in this matter would be greatly appreciated! thanks in advance Stu !
Best Regards,
Parrao79
[quote]Luka24 wrote:
Stu what is your opinion on Peri-Workout nutrition? Is it dependent on:
Training volume
natural vs assisted
Gaining vs Cutting
I have read on many forums that it is not as useful when natural and that making sure you had carbs in your meals before hand as well as a meal at a reasonable time afterwards you are more than covered.
I am about to start a cut and if worth it want to make sure I implement it correctly.[/quote]
I think in the grand pyramid of importance, that there are plenty of bases to make sure youāre covering before obsessing about nutrient timing. Sure, we all read the books when they first came out, and there was indeed evidence to support the approach, but IMO (and in many other coaches I respectās opinions as well), having a crappy diet the rest of the day, not getting enough sleep, doing a half assed unproductive training protocolā¦ these should all be in place first.
When youāre discussing the elite athlete, or advanced trainers, then yes, I honestly do believe there is a reason to consider periworkout nutrition. A very simple way of thinking about it is like this:
Anything that makes you have a better workout, whether physical or even psychological, can translate to better results overall. Think about it, the key to any good physique alteration is in the stimulus of triggering the adaptation response. Thatās done in the gym. This is the thinking that made me first consider still loading up on carbs (my trusty olā finibars!) even when I was only going to the gym to do high intensity cardio. If I felt that I was able to train, even if itās just balls to the wall sprints on a bike. harder, then it would pay off in the end results.
So while some people may feel better throughout the day with an evenly spread out allotment of their daily carbs, others - myself included - feel better able to tear things apart when well fed and supplemented.
S
[quote]parrao79 wrote:
Hey Stu,
I would love your insight on when someone is able to reverse diet into a competition, how do you feel is the best way to gradually add in carbs? I am starting around my peri-nutrition. Iāve always maintained carbs post workout (~40 grams), but now I am adding it intra-workout (~20 grams). After this point, would you feel adding more to the intra and post workout shakes would be beneficial or adding pre-workout carbs?
Your expertise in this matter would be greatly appreciated! thanks in advance Stu !
Best Regards,
Parrao79[/quote]
I know some people are very adamant about their feelings on this, but anyone who has dieted multiple times themselves, or been around enough competitors must have been witness to situations where you have no other choice but to start adding #s back in as you continue to lean out (or even just post contest). Thereās a saying that anytime you throw something different at your body, youāre going to experience āsomethingā as a result. Now, if youāre lucky, that something will be right along the lines of where you need to go goal wise.
A couple of years ago, I had a client who had no plans of competing, but wanted to see just how dialed in he could get before he had to put his training on the back burner while in Med School. As luck would have it, he was able to handle a serious amount of carbs from the get go, and so we definitely had a lot of play room in terms of keeping them high while just lowering cals, swapping out carbs for fats, and really plenty of options that kept the progress coming without having to really suffer the way some other folks might.
Eventually, we reached a point where he was really lean by most peopleās standards, but not quite āthereā yet. I didnāt want to resort of shaving small bits of calories any more, because I really hate when you get into āstupid-lowā amounts, and try to avoid it whenever I can with other approaches. Because he handled carbs so well, I decided to start bringing the numbers (especially carbs) back up.
Well, wouldnāt you know it, he kept leaning out, yielding ~1 lb a week dropped as his carbs kept rising. He got tighter, and fuller, and despite being lighter, looked bigger in every sense of the word.
Now Iām not saying that everytime you get stuck on a cut that you should just jack your #s back up, but what I am saying is that in some cases, itās not always the ājust keep lowering numbersā approach that gets you where youāre going.
As to WHERE you add them,ā¦ some coaches will say to spread things out and keep better blood sugar levels in the process, others (like me!) will favor placing them strategically at times of the day where you can most benefit (even if only psychologically) from the added amounts.
Iāll also say that while I do acknowledge that smaller steps are usually better in terms of gauging progress and assessing variables, when I hear about certain people recommending adding 5g of carbs here and there each week and really just drawing out the process, I have to think that itās nothing more than a great way to hold onto paying clients longer.
Thereās a reason why only a couple of coaches cling to these silly and intentionally stretched out recommendtions while others (and some very very educated and respected folks at that) continually point out that lack of any real scientific evidence supporting the approach.
Hope I answered your questions in there somewhere -lol. I might have rambled a bit (waiting for my car to be inspected as Iām typing!)
S
Thanks Stu,
I appreciate your insight!
Regards,
Parrao79
Stu is there a macro breakdown you prefer for yourself and/or clients?
I assume that as one progresses it may change but, is there a preferred starting point?