(Mighty) Stu Yellin, WNBF Pro Updates n Q&A

Training
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The messed up thing is that as uncool as this occurrence is, it’s not that uncommon. I COULD (but won’t) rattle off a list of folks who have actually sat through the polygraphs and urinalysis procedures, only to have both tests and both urine samples taken and sent to Quest Labs produce failing results. Usually when this happens, the competitors jump to another federation, make up some story about it being due to a OTC supplement they took, some ‘political’ mumbo jumbo, or just ignoring it and saying that there were no real advancement opportunities in the Natural side of the sport.

Heck, one guy who failed after winning the Overall at a major WNBF Pro Show about 2 years ago had the balls to pay for a table at a fairly well known same federation contest last year and hawk his “Natural Body Building” DVD. Then earlier this year, he started promoting contests for another federation and promptly won his Pro card with them.

Another well known female competitor always raised eyebrows in amateur contests, then when she won her WNBF pro card, failed both test samples. When she was notified by the then head of the federation, she simply told him point blank her intentions, which were later echoed in the pages of various online and print magazines, where she complained about the federation and how she had more options and pursuits outside of such a limiting environment. Obviously no one could have complained if she had said/done that before failing a drug test -lol.

I certainly don’t fault any people for jumping to the ‘other side’ of the fence, but don’t cheapen the sport for others who don’t want to.

S

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Jumping from natural shows to “open” untested shows is another topic. After winning my state natural show in the over 40 Masters last fall, I competed in May in a large regional open (“untested”) show. I competed in an untested show 13 years ago, but my trainer thought I could do well. I came in 4th in the May show, only reconfirming that I stay in natural shows. I was proud of my efforts, and thought I actually was in better condition in May. However, it was clear that it would be difficult to beat those who are ‘assisted’ and I don’t mean that in a derogratory way.

I was just hope those that compete in untested shows stay in that realm. Likewise, I plan on competing in natural shows going forward.

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Stu, since you guys are on the topic of assistance in “natural” shows… how does the federation handle TRT and other “quality of life improvement” supplementation. If it is within normal bounds is it accepted, or are they ineligible to compete?

I often wonder this because I can see both sides. If a guy has low T, his quality of life and health can improve by going on TRT. At the same time, if someone falls in normal range, they can find a doctor to provide them a slight boost to hit the upper range of “normal” testosterone. They will fall in guidelines, but are getting a boost they didn’t necessarily need.

Then you must consider that the levels of testosterone for a male naturally fall as they age, hence why you can no longer gain muscle so much as try to maintain what you have. Your body slowly starts to die, you lose muscle mass every year if stagnant, etc etc. Now, a man in his late 30’s starts doing TRT and lands himself back to “normal” range, well normal range is the level of an 18 year old male. Is it fair to other competitors in their 30’s, competing with testosterone of a 30 year old, to be competing against a guy who is 30, with the testosterone of an 18 year old?

How do the federations handle this, especially the strictest ones? How do the strictest federations handle the guys who come in in questionable condition that to trained eyes look like they’ve been enhanced but can’t be proven as such? Its not fair to discriminate or make claims that can’t be proven, but we all know that cheating tests is possible, and that guys in the natural realm are getting bigger and bigger all the time. Genetics and good eating, exercising, sleeping only go so far.

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[quote]ghost87 wrote:
Jumping from natural shows to “open” untested shows is another topic. After winning my state natural show in the over 40 Masters last fall, I competed in May in a large regional open (“untested”) show. I competed in an untested show 13 years ago, but my trainer thought I could do well. I came in 4th in the May show, only reconfirming that I stay in natural shows. I was proud of my efforts, and thought I actually was in better condition in May. However, it was clear that it would be difficult to beat those who are ‘assisted’ and I don’t mean that in a derogratory way.

I was just hope those that compete in untested shows stay in that realm. Likewise, I plan on competing in natural shows going forward.

[/quote]

Without offending anyone, I think it’s safe to say that the quality of competitors in tested vs untested shows can differ greatly. Often, you will see much larger competitors in untested shows, while you can occasionally spot much better conditioning in the tested ones. IMO this has a lot more to do with the preparation process than anything though. I have several friends who are clean and choose to compete in untested shows simply because there are plenty of them around the NY-Metro area. On the other hand, you will have clean competitors who will express their unwillingness to enter an untested show because the chances of winning are usually quite slim.

Actually, shortly after I won my WNBF pro card, I had a phone chat with Thibs, where the possibility of my entering an NPC show was discussed. While we both agreed that I could be giving up some size (despite the fact that I’ve always been a fairly large Middleweight), he paid me the compliment of saying that the conditioning I could bring might indeed result in a class win. This has been the case with a few of my friends who compete clean in untested shows. Class wins? yep. Overall wins? Not even close.

If you’re competing just for yourself though, and can honestly appreciate improving on you previous best, then it shouldn’t matter what type of shows you enter. (in theory of course -lol)

S

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[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Stu, since you guys are on the topic of assistance in “natural” shows… how does the federation handle TRT and other “quality of life improvement” supplementation. If it is within normal bounds is it accepted, or are they ineligible to compete?

I often wonder this because I can see both sides. If a guy has low T, his quality of life and health can improve by going on TRT. At the same time, if someone falls in normal range, they can find a doctor to provide them a slight boost to hit the upper range of “normal” testosterone. They will fall in guidelines, but are getting a boost they didn’t necessarily need.

Then you must consider that the levels of testosterone for a male naturally fall as they age, hence why you can no longer gain muscle so much as try to maintain what you have. Your body slowly starts to die, you lose muscle mass every year if stagnant, etc etc. Now, a man in his late 30’s starts doing TRT and lands himself back to “normal” range, well normal range is the level of an 18 year old male. Is it fair to other competitors in their 30’s, competing with testosterone of a 30 year old, to be competing against a guy who is 30, with the testosterone of an 18 year old?

How do the federations handle this, especially the strictest ones? How do the strictest federations handle the guys who come in in questionable condition that to trained eyes look like they’ve been enhanced but can’t be proven as such? Its not fair to discriminate or make claims that can’t be proven, but we all know that cheating tests is possible, and that guys in the natural realm are getting bigger and bigger all the time. Genetics and good eating, exercising, sleeping only go so far.[/quote]

Gotta agree here, I too see both sides of the argument. Yes, naturally declining hormone levels is something that older athletes must deal with to varying degrees, but if one chooses to do something about it and another doesn’t, haven’t we just created another uneven playing field?

While I can’t say for certain what the federation’s official policy is, I can say that when a steroid profile is ran on a submitted urine sample, I believe that there is a specified ‘normal’ range that is acceptable. As such, I would assume that making use of some form of HRT that still allows for passing the urinalysis, combined with a Doctor’s note when being taking the Poly, would allow for an older, or even younger but in need, athlete to fall well within the bounds of passing the requirements of a tested federation.

When I attended a WNBF Pro show back in 2012, all of the Pro level bodybuilders were there earlier in the morning to check in, address all required tests and paperwork, and whatever else needed handling. As there was a relatively smaller number of (Pro) contestants than I had been among at my previous (amateur level) contest outings, I actually heard one of the older athletes inquire about submitting a doctors note that he had brought. Without anything more than that knowledge, I just assumed it was either in reference of some prescription that might cause a false positive (you always hear this as a BS excuse when a PED using athlete gets caught, but I would guess it is possible), or maybe even a case of HRT.

I remember when DHEA was a big thing, specifically being touted for older athletes, but getting enough attention that youngsters took interest as well. There was a statement in Natural Bodybuilder & Fitness magazine as well as being posted on several contest-reporting web sites that so long as certain levels that would be tested in a full spectrum breakdown at Quest labs, that it was acceptable due to the ‘quality of life’ reasons many people were making use of it. Taken with the usual “have you made use of any supplements on the banned substance list to gain an advantage in this contest?” type of questions, it may be the best available option.

S

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Thanks for the response Stu! I was hoping to get a glimpse into that world. If you don’t mind me pushing the question further… what is your viewpoint on it? Would you ever personally consider going on HRT for the sake of pro-longing health - not even considering trying to “play the game” and stay within range but at max level?

For me personally, I had been debating “getting on” at say age 30 when its claimed that muscle gain stop or begins to drastically slow. I’ve since seen that many Naturals are capable of achieving impressive physiques, all it takes is time, and for healthy people, we’ve got lots of it! Now my viewpoint is battling back and forth regarding HRT once I actually hit 35-40, or at whatever age it becomes “healthy” to do so. In my current perspective, if I can prolong my quality of life and be able to sustain muscle mass longer, it will help to benefit me as I age. So say we start to lose muscle mass typically starting at age 50, if you utilize HRT, that extra T might help your body to maintain muscle mass to age 55, before it starts to degrade (after all, you do eventually lose to Father Time, its inevitable). Those extra 5 years could mean a lot as I age, who knows.

As I continue my journey through trying to improve, I’d like to be able to consider doing a Natural Show at some point, maybe when I hit that magic “30” and if I feel I did or can do well, continue in future years. I’d hate to jeopardize that opportunity, and I don’t want to ever go into it feeling like I “played the game” or “cheated”. If I am going to compete, I want to give the respect to my competition the same I would hope they’d extend to me - fair play and honesty. But at the same time, living healthy is more important than a trophy/competing.

Again, thank you for responding, I appreciate and respect your viewpoint/input.

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@Quasi-Tech: I’d love to give you a really long, well thought out answer (I always wait a bit to collect my thoughts before replying to ‘good’ posts), but the wife and I will be leaving town tomorrow on a little excursion for our 1 year Anniversary. So as the Bahamas might put me out of cel phone/internet contact for a bit, I promise I’ll address your thoughts, and anything else people would like to discuss once I return.

Despite very full days packed with who knows what (Cat is a regular Clark Griswold when it comes to planning vacations), I have to write a Best Man’s speech for my middle brother who is getting married a few days after we return, and rough out an outline for a seminar I’ll be giving for a local Performance Center’s “coaches clinics” on nutrition strategies for athletes. Never a dull moment, but I wouldn’t change a thing! :smiley:

S

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[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
@Quasi-Tech: I’d love to give you a really long, well thought out answer (I always wait a bit to collect my thoughts before replying to ‘good’ posts), but the wife and I will be leaving town tomorrow on a little excursion for our 1 year Anniversary. So as the Bahamas might put me out of cel phone/internet contact for a bit, I promise I’ll address your thoughts, and anything else people would like to discuss once I return.

Despite very full days packed with who knows what (Cat is a regular Clark Griswold when it comes to planning vacations), I have to write a Best Man’s speech for my middle brother who is getting married a few days after we return, and rough out an outline for a seminar I’ll be giving for a local Performance Center’s “coaches clinics” on nutrition strategies for athletes. Never a dull moment, but I wouldn’t change a thing! :smiley:

S[/quote]

Happy anniversary to you and Cat, enjoy the vacation!

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[quote]pwolves17 wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
@Quasi-Tech: I’d love to give you a really long, well thought out answer (I always wait a bit to collect my thoughts before replying to ‘good’ posts), but the wife and I will be leaving town tomorrow on a little excursion for our 1 year Anniversary. So as the Bahamas might put me out of cel phone/internet contact for a bit, I promise I’ll address your thoughts, and anything else people would like to discuss once I return.

Despite very full days packed with who knows what (Cat is a regular Clark Griswold when it comes to planning vacations), I have to write a Best Man’s speech for my middle brother who is getting married a few days after we return, and rough out an outline for a seminar I’ll be giving for a local Performance Center’s “coaches clinics” on nutrition strategies for athletes. Never a dull moment, but I wouldn’t change a thing! :smiley:

S[/quote]

Happy anniversary to you and Cat, enjoy the vacation!
[/quote]
x2,Have a great time Stu.

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Enjoy your well-deserved anniversary vacation! My best wishes for many more for you and your wife. Good, healthy relationships are few and far between. My folks just hit their 29th anniversary yesterday. They joked about how “old” they’ll be at their 50th.

Wishing you many more and take as much time as you need to respond, and no biggy if you can’t. Feel free to provide pic(s) of your Griswaldian adventure.

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Thanks for the well wishes guys. Cat n’ I just got back to NY a few hours ago. While our initial plan was to hit the Bahamas (a good buddy tipped me off that Atlantis houses a well stocked Golds’ Gym), our ship ran into the tail end of Tropical Storm Dorian (Dorian! I’m sure it was a huge f-ing storm -lol) and so the itinerary changed and we found ourselves visiting San Juan, St Thomas, and Grand Turks. Not too bad at all.

The food certainly left a lot to be desired, and I can’t tell you how many looks we got when I’d take a jug of Metabolic Drive out of my knapsack during breakfast so I could mix some into my oatmeal. The ‘scrambled eggs’ weren’t even close to tasting like real eggs, so both Cat and I would pretty much empty out the serving basket of hard boiled eggs each morning, then sit at a table de-shelling and downing as many as we could.

The gym on the ship was nowhere near as well equipped as the last cruise we went on in '11, and so I had to talk myself down each day with “relax, you’re on vacation… as long as you’re doing something, it’s better than doing nothing” type conversations in my head.
Despite my feelings lately of not being in the shape I should be in, I still received the “looks” that any man of appreciable size gets from other guys when he walks into a strange gym. I kept my headphones on, kept to myself, and just did my thing. Except for one young kid (18 years old) who I actually ended up giving a lot of pointers to, eventually saying he could e-mail me if he had any questions. Damn teacher part of me always comes out, even on vacation. The housekeepers also took notice, quick to ask each day if I was on my way to the gym any time I left our room and telling Cat that even when I was dressed nicely for dinner, my “large body” stood out. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t enjoy the comments.

So since we’ve been ashore, I had to go try on my tux for this weekend (brother’s wedding), get a burger and frozen yogurt (still in vacation mode), catch up on any comic books I missed (latest Batman Superman came out while I was away), and pick up my doggy from my parents (man I missed that little furball). Now I’m just unwinding a bit before hitting a real gym for a tough leg session, and then tomorrow, it’s hopefully some sense of normalcy schedule wise.

I had started playing around with Biotest’s Plazma a few weeks before we went away, and I was really liking the extra intensity I seemed to have. Looking forward to getting back down to business physique wise. I’m still not super strict with my diet, but definitely seeing everything but my pecs filling out more. When Sept gets here I’m planning on putting myself on a serious recomp program, so I’ll have a much better idea of how much quality size I’ve been able to regain since the surgery. Until then, I’ll just take the training one day at a time.

There was a question about my personal feelings on TRT that I didn’t want to rush and answer before I went away. I promise I’ll get to it once I’ve had a little sleep, and can give a better answer than a rambling train of thought reply like I’m doing right now :slight_smile:

S

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[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Thanks for the response Stu! I was hoping to get a glimpse into that world. If you don’t mind me pushing the question further… what is your viewpoint on it? Would you ever personally consider going on HRT for the sake of pro-longing health - not even considering trying to “play the game” and stay within range but at max level?
[/quote]

Ok, getting to the question a little late, but my Summer months were anything but low key and I guess I just forgot.

It is interesting to consider, as of the many friends and clients to regularly make use of various PEDs, I received quite a few suggestions of what I “should do” post surgery in order to heal quicker and gain back the size I had lost. Certainly, as the months went on, even once I was able to do some things in the gym, I realized that were I to jump back onstage in an open Pro class I’d be less than I was.

Which brought me to the inevitable question of whether I’d prefer to be remembered when I was at the top of my competitive game, as the guy who kicked ass for a while and then simply moved into more coaching and judging, or if I absolutely needed to strut about in my underwear in front of crowds of people that I didn’t care whether I appeared any less than what I’d been in the past or not.

As things currently are, I’m not entertaining getting onstage anytime soon, which would definitely negate the matter of passing more of the various drug tests I’ve been subjected to over the years. Of course if it were just that simple, then it would be an obvious solution. If anyone has perused various youtube videos from self proclaimed experts, or seen the number of FB groups dedicated to attacking, fabricating stories about, and just trying to cast a negative light on certain members of the ‘natural’, or ‘drug tested’ bodybuilder community, you realize that there exists a considerable amount of people who seem to have a serious ax to grind with those who excel in such an arena.

Usually the people you see yelling about who’s clean and who’s a liar have some truly sad physiques themselves. If you recall, I actually wrote on here about receiving some hater email earlier this year, because we all know there’s no way my build could be achieved without some serious PEDs -lol.

Sadly though, I do realize that a lot of people look up to what I’ve achieved without such aid. I hear it from my clients who compete in various natural organizations, and I hear it from clients who openly use a little (or a lot of) help. Heck, if I didn’t know better, and I saw some of my own contest pics without knowing what I know, or how much I really weighed, I might think I was full of crap too. So I have to consider how the public perceives me to some degree.

Now I fully understand what people mean when they discuss quality of life issues, and I would imagine that low dose HRT isn’t going to seriously blow the average person up. However, I like to think (and I may be waaay off base here), that with the way I eat and train, a slight dose would have a considerable effect. I also know that if I ever did, I’d start getting that competitive itch again…

As of now though, I think that I’m still relatively too young (40) to be thinking solely about health and life quality. I’m not so delusional that amidst my whining to my wife about how bad I look, I do realzie that I’m still one of the bigger guys in the gym.

I guess that the real answer, after all that rambling (and I’m sure I just went all over the place!) is that it’s not something I’m considering. Not now, and certainly not in the foreseeable future. This is solely based on my own situation though. I have several friends who make use of HRT either because they’re a bit older and have noticed signs of declining, or even close to my age, but naturally have lower levels. It’s simply something you can choose to do that can definitely provide plenty of benefits.

Of course the way things currently are with the tested federations, that’s really the only time it should be a concern for anyone. For the other 99.9% of gym rats, I would never view making use of such use in any negative light at all.

S

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Good thoughts and info in that post Stu.Hows the shoulder coming along.I have been meaning to ask you this since I myself just got out of shoulder surgery this morning.I had posterior labral tear,nerve impingement,and some pretty big bone spurs along my acromion that were sanded down as well.My follow up is in 6 days with my doc.

From what he told my dad everything went well.I will find out the details when I talk to him.My doc was Dr.Laith Farjo and he came highly recommended from a sport and athlete background as well and he only does shoulder’s.I guess he used to work for one of the NFL teams but I can’t remember which one off the top of my head.

Anyway the nerve block is starting to wear of(what a crazy feeling that was).I did pay extra for the pain pump which lasts 2 days I believe.I re-read your log trying to find any tid bits of info i could use for healing and such.I’m not looking foreword to 3 weeks in this sling and then rehab etc.They are saying 3 months til im back to full lifting.

So any tips,leg workouts you can throw my way would be great haha.Time to do a leg spec. program I guess.Well time to lay down and be depressed.If any thing doesn’t make sense In my post I blame the Norco and the pain pump haha.Thanks again Stu.

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[quote]jppage wrote:
Good thoughts and info in that post Stu.Hows the shoulder coming along.I have been meaning to ask you this since I myself just got out of shoulder surgery this morning.I had posterior labral tear,nerve impingement,and some pretty big bone spurs along my acromion that were sanded down as well.My follow up is in 6 days with my doc.

From what he told my dad everything went well.I will find out the details when I talk to him.My doc was Dr.Laith Farjo and he came highly recommended from a sport and athlete background as well and he only does shoulder’s.I guess he used to work for one of the NFL teams but I can’t remember which one off the top of my head.

Anyway the nerve block is starting to wear of(what a crazy feeling that was).I did pay extra for the pain pump which lasts 2 days I believe.I re-read your log trying to find any tid bits of info i could use for healing and such.I’m not looking foreword to 3 weeks in this sling and then rehab etc.They are saying 3 months til im back to full lifting.

So any tips,leg workouts you can throw my way would be great haha.Time to do a leg spec. program I guess.Well time to lay down and be depressed.If any thing doesn’t make sense In my post I blame the Norco and the pain pump haha.Thanks again Stu.[/quote]

Didn’t know you were having shoulder problems dude, sucks.

I wish you a swift recovery!

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[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:

[quote]jppage wrote:
Good thoughts and info in that post Stu.Hows the shoulder coming along.I have been meaning to ask you this since I myself just got out of shoulder surgery this morning.I had posterior labral tear,nerve impingement,and some pretty big bone spurs along my acromion that were sanded down as well.My follow up is in 6 days with my doc.

From what he told my dad everything went well.I will find out the details when I talk to him.My doc was Dr.Laith Farjo and he came highly recommended from a sport and athlete background as well and he only does shoulder’s.I guess he used to work for one of the NFL teams but I can’t remember which one off the top of my head.

Anyway the nerve block is starting to wear of(what a crazy feeling that was).I did pay extra for the pain pump which lasts 2 days I believe.I re-read your log trying to find any tid bits of info i could use for healing and such.I’m not looking foreword to 3 weeks in this sling and then rehab etc.They are saying 3 months til im back to full lifting.

So any tips,leg workouts you can throw my way would be great haha.Time to do a leg spec. program I guess.Well time to lay down and be depressed.If any thing doesn’t make sense In my post I blame the Norco and the pain pump haha.Thanks again Stu.[/quote]

Didn’t know you were having shoulder problems dude, sucks.

I wish you a swift recovery![/quote]
Thanks Rattle That’s nice to hear.Ya I didn’t mention It at all,just been kinda depressed about It(as Stu can relate I’m sure).Once again thanks for the nice thoughts Rattle.

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[quote]jppage wrote:
Good thoughts and info in that post Stu.Hows the shoulder coming along.I have been meaning to ask you this since I myself just got out of shoulder surgery this morning.I had posterior labral tear,nerve impingement,and some pretty big bone spurs along my acromion that were sanded down as well.My follow up is in 6 days with my doc.

From what he told my dad everything went well.I will find out the details when I talk to him.My doc was Dr.Laith Farjo and he came highly recommended from a sport and athlete background as well and he only does shoulder’s.I guess he used to work for one of the NFL teams but I can’t remember which one off the top of my head.

Anyway the nerve block is starting to wear of(what a crazy feeling that was).I did pay extra for the pain pump which lasts 2 days I believe.I re-read your log trying to find any tid bits of info i could use for healing and such.I’m not looking foreword to 3 weeks in this sling and then rehab etc.They are saying 3 months til im back to full lifting.

So any tips,leg workouts you can throw my way would be great haha.Time to do a leg spec. program I guess.Well time to lay down and be depressed.If any thing doesn’t make sense In my post I blame the Norco and the pain pump haha.Thanks again Stu.[/quote]

Yow! Oh man, I’m so sorry to hear that! You don’t need me to tell you that its not a very fun experience in any way. Hell, I’m still not sure if it’s worse physically or mentally.

My issues were mostly the posterior portion as well. One of the DPTs who worked on me during my rehab theorized (he emphasized that it was only a theory) that due to the many years of shouldering (no pun intended) heavy weights during so many chest pressing movements, that the joint just isn’t meant to deal with such intense and prolonged stress. Bone spurs don’t sound like much fun, and while I didn’t have any, there is some issue with just my left AC joint. Crazy how you can think you’re being so careful and smart in your training, and still find that the human body can only take so much.

Lol, I had a pain pump too, but unbeknownst to Cat and I, it sprung a leak, and was empty fairly quickly. We just thought I was sweating a lot from the whole ordeal, and being all slinged up in a chair all day long.

If they’re giving you 3 months until full lifting, then I’m seriously jealous. I may have been able to do some upper body movements worked into my 3x/week PT sessions, but it was 6 months before I was let loose in the gym on my own (with a good amount of restrictions though).

As far as workout tips go, like you’re already planning, leg spec is a definite. Of course due to the nature of my injury, even when I’m as healed as I’m gonna get, front squats are a no no. This really sucked for me as after years of backsquats yielded little beyond some heavy weights and a big ass, I realized that I needed front squats to get my quads where they needed to be for the stage.

During my rehab though, for the first time ever, I split my leg workout into Quad days and Hamstring and Calves days, and did each workout twice a week. With no squatting at all, the leg press became my buddy (after single leg extensions for pre-exhaust work). For Hams though, I couldn’t really do any stretch-type movements, and so single leg curls (funny to see me holding myself in the machine with one arm while the other one was in a sling) and then double leg seated leg curls was all I could do.

If I could give you any rehab advice, it would be to take it as seriously as you take your training. Some of the crap they’re gonna have you do, especially at the onset, is going to be seriously boring, and seem pointless. Of course depending on the severity of your injury, you may not be able to do much of anything, so going along with seemingly basic stuff is all you’ll be able to do anyway.

My approach was if they told me to do 3 sets of something, I’d do 5. Even in my very limited condition my mental outlook was that I was either capable of, or simple willing to do more than anyone else. Being in a PT clinic with every day couch potatoes as well as a couple of pro level athletes did make for an interesting perception of my own condition as it deteriorated those first few months. It’s not always easy to keep your chin up. Still, the best advice I received was that as horrible as I may be feeling at that time, eventually, it’s all going to be in the rearview mirror.

I’ll give more of an update on my own training in another reply, as things are definitely looking a bit better than they have in a while. Keep m posted how you’re getting along!

S

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Thanks for the info Stu,It means a lot coming from somebody who has been/going through this crap.Your right about what’s worse the physical or mental,It’s a tough call on that one.My post surgery appointment is on Thursday so I will find out the detail’s and more info.I’m going to follow your lead on those w/out’s you mentioned as soon as I’m able,Once again thank’s and I’ll keep ya updated.

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Stu, thanks for the response to my question. I have one more that may also be thought provoking, or possibly a quick one word answer.

IFBB (untested) bodybuilding is often said to depend highly on genetics. One’s ability to respond to different stimuli. The genetics also for muscle shape, muscle tie-ins, etc. all become exacerbated at that degree of muscularity. Many top guys who have been in the game a while, work incredibly hard, etc. are unable to (or still on the list) to get their pro cards, losing to guys with better flow, etc.

In the Natural Professional Bodybuilding scene, do you feel that one has to have upper tier genetics and muscle belly size/tie-ins in order to get a pro card, or do you think that anyone who puts in the time and effort could reasonably achieve a pro level physique? Since the muscles aren’t as “blown up” at the Natural level, genetics of muscle appearance my be a lesser factor.

Keep in mind that I understand muscle belly size and tie-ins etc. all impact the top pro’s. I 'm not asking about winning a pro show or competing with the top guys out there, I’m talking about just getting to that level to be able to compete with them. And if its possible, how long do you think a natural needs to toil in the gym to make a physique at that level? 3-5 years, 7-10 years, etc.?

Thanks again!

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So I’ve been back in the gym able to train upper body for about 6 months now. During that time, it’s certainly been slow going as I’m very limited in terms of movements I can do, how hard I can push (I feel a bit unsteady doing certain things), and even mentally at times (can’t forget that I’ll definitely be needing full replacement at some point).

Still, I’ve been able to introduce some added movements lately, albeit in very very limited ROMs, but after not being able to come anywhere near them (ie. cable work) for a year now, the pump that resulted felt incredible.

Figured I’s share a quick (bit blurry) camera pic I snapped last night of my ‘bad’ arm. I wasn’t even training arms, but just happened to catch my reflection in the mirror and thought “hmnnn looking a bit beefy today” -lol

(Yes, I know I never put up pics of how much muscle I had lost. It hit me much harder than I thought it would when I would see photos of myself from the months post surgery. Trust me, it was bad. A few of the PTs even commented on how quickly I lost size.)

S

200

Dat mass… Beefy indeed, Stu. I cant say big you were before, but you definitely dont look “post op” in that pic.

Stu, I’m sure you have covered this before, but what did you do for your shoulders over the course of your lifting career that you feel brought the most size?