Methyl Folate for Treatment Resistant Depression

Off Topic
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Hey guys just found these interesting articles and thought I would post it here, I remember several threads a bit back where different people seemed to be having depression going on and found this to be an interesting and cheap treatment!

I personally developed some pretty bad depression as a result of lyme disease, mainly because of the inflammation it caused in my brain, hyp perfusion of certain parts which caused lack of blood flow, and ammonia being released from dying bacteria…

It caused me to start having hallucinations, erratic behavior, depression, and anger outbursts as a result, among 1000 other things haha… Though I never really acted anything out just symptoms that occured that I kind of kept between me and my LLMD lol…

Anyways I found out I was also amnemic because of the infection and started using a methylation protocol to help with ATP production and cellular growth which was probably impaired because of the bacteria.

I started using methyl b12, Adob12, Methyl Folate, and L Carnatine Fumarate and I had way more energy as a result and some symptoms of the infection slowly started to die down soon after… This is where I later learned that methyl Folate was actually found to be very useful in treating depression.

Apparently some people even have genetic mutations where their body does not process folate, or folic acid fully and this triggers depression for many, these people go on to have very treatment resistant depression until they start supplementing high dose methyl folate and begin to recover.

I guess the folate deficiency can also cause inflammation as well as depression and this can result in inflammation of the brain and other places which may either trigger the depression in the first place or make it worse…

Anyways Interesting stuff and I think many here may benefit from trying it out if they feel the need, also for things like chronic illness, lyme disease, or chronic fatigue syndrome the methylation protocol does absolute wonders!

The protocol I use is from a friend of mine named Fred who actually cured his M.E./CFS with it and has made it available to everyone and recovered many others from CFS/M.E. as a result as well.

Here is some links on depression and folate deficiency

http://www.psychcongress.com/article/l-methylfolate-promising-therapy-treatment-resistant-depression-11329

Also here is my friend Fred’s protocol for methylation

Also please note if you suffer from CFS/M.E. then it is VITAL you uptake the amount of potassium you use while on Fred’s protocol. For people with CFS for whatever reason the treatment can reduce potassium levels in them for new cell growth and this can be dangerous if one does not have adequate potassium in diet/supplementation!

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It’s nice that you are very familiar with this, but what do the abbreviations stand for?

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Lol sorry, Lyme literate medical doctor is LLMD, CFS is chronic fatigue syndrome, and M.E. is myalgic encephalomyelitis.

I am actually surprised I can be so literate with how messed up my brain is right now haha

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Have you been tested for the MTHFR mutations?

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[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
Have you been tested for the MTHFR mutations?[/quote]

Not personally for myself, don’t think I have any either as I was always in perfect health until I got bite by a tick and developed the lyme issues…

Dr. Yasko’s genetic test and research is extremely interesting though.

I think its called 23andMe right?

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[quote]cstratton2 wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
Have you been tested for the MTHFR mutations?[/quote]

Not personally for myself, don’t think I have any either as I was always in perfect health until I got bite by a tick and developed the lyme issues…

Dr. Yasko’s genetic test and research is extremely interesting though.

I think its called 23andMe right?[/quote]

Toward the end of page is the review of association with depression.

MTHFR mutations are common and the literature is extensive. I could find no interaction with Lyme, but if you are seriously concerned about folic acid related depression, the test for MTHFR mutation is not expensive.

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[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]cstratton2 wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
Have you been tested for the MTHFR mutations?[/quote]

Not personally for myself, don’t think I have any either as I was always in perfect health until I got bite by a tick and developed the lyme issues…

Dr. Yasko’s genetic test and research is extremely interesting though.

I think its called 23andMe right?[/quote]

Toward the end of page is the review of association with depression.

MTHFR mutations are common and the literature is extensive. I could find no interaction with Lyme, but if you are seriously concerned about folic acid related depression, the test for MTHFR mutation is not expensive.[/quote]

I am not too concerned about folic acid related depression for myself but think it would be helpful for others on here which mentioned having some treatment resistant depression, the info is pretty fascinating though!

I don’t think there is any MTHFR related to my lyme issues but have had some emotional/behavioral/cognitive changes as a result of being undiagnosed with the infection so long, some symptoms being very severe.

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Dude out of curiosity cstratton2 where are you from? I am from the mid Atlantic region. Maryland to be precise and the number of lyme disease cases is ridiculous. It gets even more ridiculous when you realize how many people are either a. asymptomatic or b. feel like shit and just don’t know why.

Now it gets really crazy when you realize you have LD and start doing some research and realize it gets a little conspiracy theoryish. I have been meaning to get myself tested for a while now because I often have many of the less severe symptoms and live in the epicenter of this freaking epidemic.

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[quote]A-rod wrote:
Dude out of curiosity cstratton2 where are you from? I am from the mid Atlantic region. Maryland to be precise and the number of lyme disease cases is ridiculous. It gets even more ridiculous when you realize how many people are either a. asymptomatic or b. feel like shit and just don’t know why. Now it gets really crazy when you realize you have LD and start doing some research and realize it gets a little conspiracy theoryish. I have been meaning to get myself tested for a while now because I often have many of the less severe symptoms and live in the epicenter of this freaking epidemic. [/quote]

I don’t know about the conspiracy theory stuff but I can say it is much more prevalent then people expect, especially cases that were supposedly treated but people get sick again, misdiagnoses of MS, Chronic fatigue syndrome, ALS, Parkinsons, Alzheimers, actually some people that fail to get treated soon enough develop other serious things later as a result… Under our Skin is a documentary that talks about all of this…

I am from New Jersey but I have lived in California since 2004, I got bite back while visiting my ex girlfriend in Pennsylvania about two years ago… Started feeling kind of fatigued about a year and a half ago and eventually it spiraled down to much more severe symptoms which antibiotic treatment made worse for a while, now better… But I think this is due to me now clearing out the ammonia from the infection and using oxidative support to help herxing.

Its fucked up dude lol, I pretty much lost all the progress I ever made working out since getting sick… It wrecked havoc on strength and pretty much had really bad muscle loss, though this is also from changes in appetite, excessive cortisol from fighting infection, and inactivity…

If you get tested be aware that most tests are either A. not sensitive enough or B. Most doctors do not know how to accurately read results.

If you want a definitive answer you would need to set an appt with a Lyme Literate Doctor and get tested through IgeneX labs. IgeneX labs is one of the very few places that is most accurate to find results as well for testing possible co infections.

If you have some symptoms its better to treat it sooner before you end up like I did or worse, though I had NO idea I could have possibly had it so not much I could have changed until now.

You could always jump on some Cats Claw, Samento and banderol to start treating anything that could be there now. It is just some cheap herbs that are natural anti bacterials, anti virals, and anti fungals. They target all co infections of lyme as well and reach into bio films and cysts where spirochetes can hide.

The best natural protocol out there is probably the Cowden protocol which many doctors have their patients use as well, it is said to work even better then most IV antibiotics as well.

Anyways shit sucks dude, it is taking forever for me to get better since it had gotten so bad so just always be aware and treat anything that could possibly ever be there.

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A-Rod saw your message in Facebook won’t let me respond until you add me as a friend. Didn’t know any other way to respond to you than to try your most recent posts. Hope to hear from you.

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I’ve always wondered, is there a significant difference between 5-MTHF and regular folate (not folic acid)? Lately I’ve been taking 1000 mcg of folate as 5-Methyltetrahydrofolic acid & glucosamine salt.

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I didn’t know bacteria released ammonia when they died - i thought they released ammonia from metabolism and then endotoxins at death.

please clarify?

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I would be careful to throw in the word ‘depression’ just because you have low energy levels or feel like shit. That is NOT what depression is.

People who struggle with depression struggle with far greater things than a simple lack of energy, even though that eventually becomes one of the symptoms.

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[quote]PB Andy wrote:
I’ve always wondered, is there a significant difference between 5-MTHF and regular folate (not folic acid)? Lately I’ve been taking 1000 mcg of folate as 5-Methyltetrahydrofolic acid & glucosamine salt.[/quote]

Some people do not have the proper pathways to convert folic acid in the body so methyl folate is usually tailored perfectly for situations like that. It is more directly bio available and does not need to be converted in the body before use. People with MTHF mutatations usually need some kind of methyl folate supplementation to avoid toxic levels of homocystiene and for other health issues related to it.

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[quote]Claudan wrote:
I would be careful to throw in the word ‘depression’ just because you have low energy levels or feel like shit. That is NOT what depression is.

People who struggle with depression struggle with far greater things than a simple lack of energy, even though that eventually becomes one of the symptoms. [/quote]

I had more symptoms then just being low energy or feeling shitty, I had very severe anehondia, and much other weird things going on… It definitely was not an easy symptom to deal with but I just didn’t feel like going into full details about it in my own case.

Its been recently shown though that a lot of people with treatment resistant depression are severly depleted in folate levels in the brain because of a lack of ability to convert folic acid. This raises inflammation of macrophages and can cause a degree of brain inflammation and impairment further contributing the changes in the brain from depression.

Methyl folate helps to clear the excess inflammation and get things working at an optimal level again, some people are also deficient
in b12 on top of folate because they didn’t have a form of folate usable by the body to be brought into new cell growth with b12 so it doesn’t get as utilized by the body and gets urinated out. I would say it is pretty important to supplement the two together as they are dependent on each other for absorption.

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[quote]theBeth wrote:
I didn’t know bacteria released ammonia when they died - i thought they released ammonia from metabolism and then endotoxins at death.

please clarify?[/quote]

Supposedly this is something specific to lyme bacteria, but not all bacterial pathogens that can invade the body. I don’t know the exact reasons on it but its been shown that people with Lyme sometimes suffer from a hyper ammonia state akin to someone with severe liver disease. I don’t fully grasp the mechanisms behind it but there are some research articles that go over it as well online.

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It´s great that you found something, keep it up.

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[quote]jasmincar wrote:
It´s great that you found something, keep it up.[/quote]

Thanks man, now if I can just cure this damn lyme disease already lol,

@PBandy, I just noticed I didn’t answer your question as it was written… 5mthf is another version of methyl folate, one that is binded to either calcium or salt in a specific manor, this has been discussed by Rob Lynch at MTHFR.COM… Specifically it mentioned that certain forms of folate even in bio available forms are very sub adequate for absorption and goes into the differences between them.

Again if you are taking 5mthf I would be sure to take additional methyl b12 to go with it, country life, enzymatic therapy, and jarrows have shown to be the best brands for it in terms of actually having the described amounts, little preservatives etc…

Actually you might find this article interesting in regarding methylation that I am using, not sure if I posted a link before on this thread but it even applies to gaining muscle and working at your best genetic threshold, because methylation is the cellular production house of the body… If someone has methylation blocks, or issues with it then all kinds of disease states can occur until its adjusted.

and here is the article by Rob Lynch on methylation and folate, though its a bit conflicted with the research shown through Fred’s experiences… In my own case I found that the inflammation brought out from folate supplementation was from paradoxical folate deficiency, and it corrected itself by raising folate to 10,000mcg a day rather then starting very low and keeping it there. This will make more sense to you after you read the links haha.

19

[quote]cstratton2 wrote:

[quote]theBeth wrote:
I didn’t know bacteria released ammonia when they died - i thought they released ammonia from metabolism and then endotoxins at death.

please clarify?[/quote]

Supposedly this is something specific to lyme bacteria, but not all bacterial pathogens that can invade the body. I don’t know the exact reasons on it but its been shown that people with Lyme sometimes suffer from a hyper ammonia state akin to someone with severe liver disease. I don’t fully grasp the mechanisms behind it but there are some research articles that go over it as well online.

[/quote]

The lyme disease spirochetes are fermentative - growing in the absence of 02. Ammonia is a byproduct of that. They are also slow growing which is why it takes so long to get a really good diagnosis of lymes. it is a truly terrible disease - aside from the actual effects on brain tissue, it’s no surprise that it causes depression. Not to mention the constant antibiotic treatment that causes it’s own set of problems. Good luck to you man!

20

[quote]cstratton2 wrote:

[quote]jasmincar wrote:
It�´s great that you found something, keep it up.[/quote]

Thanks man, now if I can just cure this damn lyme disease already lol,

@PBandy, I just noticed I didn’t answer your question as it was written… 5mthf is another version of methyl folate, one that is binded to either calcium or salt in a specific manor, this has been discussed by Rob Lynch at MTHFR.COM… Specifically it mentioned that certain forms of folate even in bio available forms are very sub adequate for absorption and goes into the differences between them.

Again if you are taking 5mthf I would be sure to take additional methyl b12 to go with it, country life, enzymatic therapy, and jarrows have shown to be the best brands for it in terms of actually having the described amounts, little preservatives etc…

Actually you might find this article interesting in regarding methylation that I am using, not sure if I posted a link before on this thread but it even applies to gaining muscle and working at your best genetic threshold, because methylation is the cellular production house of the body… If someone has methylation blocks, or issues with it then all kinds of disease states can occur until its adjusted.

and here is the article by Rob Lynch on methylation and folate, though its a bit conflicted with the research shown through Fred’s experiences… In my own case I found that the inflammation brought out from folate supplementation was from paradoxical folate deficiency, and it corrected itself by raising folate to 10,000mcg a day rather then starting very low and keeping it there. This will make more sense to you after you read the links haha.

http://mthfr.net/methylfolate-side-effects/2012/03/01/[/quote]
ahh OK.

Yeah I’m good on the B12. Take 1000-1100mcg a day.