I lost the “why” behind my training a LONG time ago. At this point, it just is.
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Suicidality also tends to go up in happier more prosperous societies because it makes you feel like you are the only one. If you are poor and struggling in a poor country, everyone is in the same boat. If you’re depressed and live in Sweden you look around and think your the only one not happy.
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There is a name for this. Can’t remember what it is though. But you nailed it. The feeling like you are the only one not happy. I think some of what @hankthetank89 has mentioned might be true too. If you have something dramatic going on around you that everyone is collectively involved in like a war, those type of things can be a distraction to depression.
Oh shoot! Lots of responses.
Thanks for chiming in.
I have no idea how to chime back in, but I’ll do my best.
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If I don’t stay active, I get depressed. Simple.
I currently speak to one therapy patient who has Cyclothemia. We usually do phone sessions, or zoom meetings. But I can tell when he’s experiencing either highs or lows.
Sometimes he speaks super quickly, or like his thoughts are coming out faster than his mouth can keep up with.
During his lows he’s much more still if we’re on video chats. Not that he’s one to fidget per say, but he’s a lot less expressive with his hand motions and such.
He’s described it as this state of back and forth between a frenzy, and some level of mental exhaustion. Which I completely understand.
Thanks for sharing. It’s nice to see how others go about caring for themselves and tending to their overall needs. I can resonate with the sex drive indicator as a means to evaluate how you’re doing.
It’s a bit different for me, but a lot of what keeps me from enjoying regular sexual activities stems from my own issues I have towards how I view my body. In order for me to be thorough I’d have to explain my past issues, but I’m growing less fond of doing so, but if you’ve got the patience for it, it’s in my log a bit ways up if you’d care to read.
With that being said, the urge is definitely there, or any noticeable levels of arousal. But the instant I start to ruminate, or even entertain a slight thought having to do with disordered eating/thinking patterns it causes me to become overly aware my myself from head to toe. Once of my biggest issues is rumination. Most times I can break the loop, but there are plenty of times where I’ll get stuck in one for a long time.
I would say giving way, or putting energy into allowing myself to enjoy sexual activities is what I work on the most. Most times there’s no need for me to deny myself of anything. But one of my biggest forms of self harm starts in my head. While I may not physically injure myself as I have in the past, denying myself of normal everyday things such as sex, a shower, certain foods, sleep, etc, I consider self harm.
Absolutely. I call it “damage control”, but it’s the same thing really.
Maybe I’m the first 
But if you really mean me, I didn’t wonder why Americans are depressed. In fact, I didn’t even think about it. I said that they may be more easily depressed if they have a more serious life problem. Which is not to say that the majority are depressed. But the truth is that if someone is used to a better life, it will be harder to accept a financial collapse that will dramatically change their standard of living. Or to affect his settled life. And this applies not only to Americans, but to richer countries in general. I think so, but I may be wrong.
And in terms of training, I can say that I’m not ok if I miss a planned training. For example, all day I think about how I will train in the evening and if something happens and the training fails I am unhappy. I’m not that strong even for my age, I’m not consistent in training programs, but lately I think that training is the core around which my life revolves. From morning to night there is probably not a minute in which I do not think about lifting. Which is not good. I even imagine, for example, refusing an invitation to an event, saying: I’m sorry I’m late, but today I’m squatting and bench press. It’s just that in my head training is more important and if I have to go to the event all night I will be unhappy. Which has happened to me. This is also the reason why I do not follow programs that can go wrong with the weekly distribution. I just go, train to feel the effort of the weights and that’s it.
I don’t think this condition is ok. It’s starting to look like obsession.
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No not weird at all.
We all have these mental pathways in our heads that act kind of like the metabolic pathways in our bodies.
Over time the more you use or prioritize a certain pathway over another, the stronger, or more adept that one particular pathway becomes.
So for some people, like yourself, the positive association with training and your mental health go hand in hand. To the point where if those regular demands aren’t being met, it affects your overall well-being negatively.
There’s also this kind of like…divergence thing that goes on concerning how people go about regulating their state of mind. Some people do this grouping thing, where others do something akin to compartmentalization.
@carlbm kind of does compartmentalization when he has to keep pointers on certain things, but from the looks of it, they all have their own specifications and he seems to keep tabs on them within their own parameters. The “Key Indicators” kind of list them in a particular set of things.
(I’m just observing though Carl, please feel free to correct me if this doesn’t line up with how you feel.)
Whereas for you @Andrewgen_Receptors things get grouped under an umbrella of sorts according to how they can be resolved during your training. Work stress, relationship stress, societal stress, etc. I think, and correct me if I’m wrong, so long as you can kind of prioritize your training in a way that addresses whatever stressor at whatever given time or day, you tend to fair better that way? Versus having some other metric or self employed coping mechanism that doesn’t involve training? Or something that calls for you to separate how you view therapy and training?
Does that make sense?
For me I have to compartmentalize because I can’t group things in such a way. While I find training to be therapeutic, there are elements of other traditional mental therapy practices that are far more complex and beneficial than training is for me. And that’s just because of how my brain is wired.
I don’t struggle with ADHD, but you have my full support. I do get into very deep depression episodes. To the point where the exhaustion isn’t just mental but actually physical. If it’s to the 100% maximum bad, training becomes something like showering with clothes on for me. Yeah I’m getting wet, but There’s layers preventing me from getting clean.
So yes I’m gonna train, respond from it, make progress in physical terms, etc., but my mental state is still suffering and in hindsight isn’t helping in the long run. I remember I once did a regular full training session with tears just streaming down my face. That whole chunk of time was extremely rough just in general, but I had to spend a great deal of time just going through it. If I trained, that was great, but what helped a lot was not giving so much energy into what I ate. Of course eating regularly was necessary, but the emotional attachment to food was gonna exacerbate the issue. After that I started focusing on things outside of training and eating, and eventually returned to a more stable state as my usual self.
When I’m on top form mh wise I usually train both very hard on also very methodically, when I’m not so good mh wise I either train however I feel like training or I start slacking off to some degree.
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I’m glad you mentioned this because I was eventually gonna start typing about something involving this.
The feeling part you mentioned is to me, a bit of a slippery slope. I think wherever said feelings originate from can have the ability to make or break a session. Well, even more so, I guess the perspective brought on by those feelings, along with whatever caused those feelings, AND how you view the thing (or things), that brought on those feelings all contribute as well.
I’m a very…feely person. I’m also a HSP (highly sensitive person(s), so a lot of things that should invoke a normal response for others, I feel it very deeply. Simple things. Like a handshake, tone of voice (good or bad), music sounds, a hug, gestures of affection, etc.
To add: I guess to better describe what I mean, when I say “normal response” I mean that by way of normal reactions that an individual doesn’t notice or deem to be something that disturbs their regular everyday mental state. In the instance say I’m talking to someone on the phone. Sometimes slight voice intonations can cause me to get fixated on it, and I’ll end up feeling some type of way about it. Sad, upset, etc. There’s no reason for me to even be feeling one way or another. I’m just talking on the phone. Same with say a handshake. Sometimes I’ll fixate on how someone shook my hand, the texture of their skin, which hand they shook, etc. and will again start to feel some way about it.
It’s taken me a long time to control my feelings, but it’s been good using that towards bettering training sessions. Sometimes it may take me longer to finish, but I will admit that I use a loooooot of grounding techniques during training. Some are kinda permanently there out of habit, some I have to consciously put into action.
There is this pyramid called Maslows Hierarchy of Needs.
Basically, you can only want/need the next level, if the level below is present and complete. So the idea my parents and most people in countries like mine express is that in order to get mental issues you need food, and a housing that doesnt let you freeze to death in winter, and also you cant be running from bullets all day long because that would definetly get in the way of you feeling shitty for your life and not wanting to get out of the bed.
This pyramid basically shows that IF you CAN HAVE these mental issues, it means you have enough resources from the levels below, which puts you in a weird spot. I know its not all black and white but it basically says that only when your life is better than most people, you can have your mental issues and cry about your shit life.
So the way i was raised was that it is a luxury to be depressed.
Also one thing that proves this a bit is that social sciences and all the mental health thing started around the time when industrialization was complete. Basically, when world got safe and we had food, only then all the great minds of the world started finding problems in our minds.
Im not sure if i am expressing my idea correctly, but i hope the chart kinda of makes it clear. The idea is that… if you would be starving to death in a warzone, you wouldnt get most of the mental issues people get in rich, safe countries. Well maybe you would, but you probably wouldnt notice. You need peace, warmth and a belly full of food, to NOTICE how you feel mentally.
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I feel you 100% on this
There’s about a handful of things that are problematic with that setup. Number one being that the Hierarchy of needs fails to take into account that interpersonal interactions, intrapersonal interactions, and many other social, family, and personal interactions rarely occur in a ladder-like, or one-after-the-other set up like that. The pyramid would actually serve better being arranged in more of a circle dynamic because.
Biggest thing to understand is that self-actualization isn’t formed from some kind of 1+1+1+1 building block of basic needs, and then psychological needs, but a mixture of them at any given time. It isn’t fixed either so while some aspects might be drawn from at a certain amount now, they may be drawn from less at a later time in life. How someone gets to their own self-actualization is dependent on the person or group of peoples. Their setting, ability to connect, worldview/perspective, upbringing, etc are all going to influence what someone’s self-actualization is going to look like. And it rarely follows any linear path.
Since we’re going this route, a personal issue I have with the pyramid model and hierarchical setup is that above all else, our highest need tends to gravitate toward social belonging. Even in the midst of war, being able to gather socially, and come TOGETHER, in times of danger, unrest, and instability by way of food, and shelter, humans will tend to group up. They will socialize, help one another by and large. Of course there’s going to be outliers, or instances of the opposite occurring, but again, by and large. There’s power in numbers.
Are the basic needs still not at optimum capacity? Whatever capacity that may be? No they are not.
But you do not NEED those things to NOTICE that something is off mentally. Are they beneficial to have? Yes. But neither of those things operate in a way that would suggest that they flow in a causal, one-after-the-other manner. They aren’t exclusive of one another like that either. They influence one another, yes, but they can exist or not exist, and the individual or groups of people can still have mental issues be they noticed or not.
So then, what can we constitute as having enough? That’s another issue presented with the Hierarchy of Needs. What would deem someone having enough?
People or families, or groups of people can be happy despite not having running water, or enough to eat. And by “Happy” I mean a positive outlook on life. Even then, we can replace “happy” with just neutral. Someone can have a positive or neutral outlook on life and still go through bouts of depression, anxiety, ADHD flare-ups, Bipolar flare ups, etc, AND have all of these whilst going through things such as war, famine, poverty, etc. will they prioritize safety? Yes, but there’s no clear indication that whatever mental health conditions are or aren’t present. Someone can still blatantly clear as day go “I’m depressed” in the midst of bullet shells dropping around them. The amount of attention paid to any situation varies. Be it attention paid to the outside surroundings, or attention paid to internal mental processes going on. It’s gonna vary, and as mentioned before about prioritization, it’s not fixed.
Mmm no. There have been older recordings dating back to the B.C. Times of people recognizing and treating mental health disorders. Again it does not go in such a causal manner. Safety can be non-existent, and such issues still exist.
That is absolutely a harmful way of viewing things like that. There’s nothing luxurious about mental health issues. There’s nothing luxurious about mental health issues that become so debilitating that someone takes their life over it.
Again this is why I was explaining the social aspect, and the aspect of belonging. Say we take that same situation of starving and being in a war zone. But we start grouping people together. Better yet we simply add just one other person. We’ve introduced a social interaction. Talking, sharing experiences, etc. Say we add another person, and another, etc. Is food still scarce? Is the war still going on? Yes. But need is coming from a social standpoint, and by proxy the mental aspect is going to come into play due to the surrounding environment or from something else be it internal or not. That CONNECTION is what is taking precedence over this argument:
It’s like over here in Texas, we had a massive flood that left our entire city underwater, handfuls of us died, left us with no running water, no electricity, no food, yet we were still cracking jokes and shit. Are some of us still depressed and have mental disorders? Yes. But the way in which we as a group of people moved through our needs did not follow a pyramid set-up.
And overall, that is what I’m trying to convey in regards to the Hierarchy of Needs you posted.
You could’ve done so in a more constructive manner. Because saying things like this:
Yeah, that ain’t it.
If you disagree, that’s okay. We aren’t all going to agree. I don’t say any of this to be mean or anything, but there’s a WHOLE lot of variation with this particular subject. I don’t like to let conversation go unnoticed, and be it to whatever degree we agree or disagree, I just think at least bringing forth and acknowledging said differences helps a lot more than not.
This makes a ton of sense to me.
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It’s rare I respond to your posts
(Mostly because I don’t feel we ever have much in common to speak about)
You’re about one of the only folks I see in here who’s training kinda goes in the negative direction as compared to the majority who tend to go in the positive direction.
By that I mean in regards to your own personal perspective on it.
Can I ask what makes it feel more destructive to you? I understand the self destructive tendencies, but like what does it trigger for you in that sense? Like certain feelings, or certain specific actions, or memories, etc.
I have had depression probably since I was a teenager but only getting treatment for it for about the last 7 years.
I know a lot of it can be a chemical imbalance in the brain and some people are more susceptible to it than others. I also have read research that more educated persons, especially in STEM fields are more prone to depression (ignorance truly is bliss)
When I can stick to a routine for exercise i have way less bad depression days. Those who have suffered from depression will know what I mean. Being singularly focused in the gym helps so much.
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Training is not my therapy whatsoever, and if I’m training extremely hard for size it is going to fry my brain. The only thing I enjoy are results which can be demonstrated through training or how you look in the mirror. I don’t hate training nor do I love training, it’s just something that needs to be done, it’s a responsibility. Maybe I used to think it was therapy, but the reality is that I had a self esteem problem. Worked on that problem and I do not see it as a coping mechanism anymore.
Watching movies, playing video games, or going off diet is great if I need a break. But, other than that I never really dealt with any diagnosed mental issues.
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An interesting thing that was discovered maybe about 50 years ago was depressive realism. Basically depressed people have a more realistic interpretation of their lives and surroundings than non depressed people on average. They don’t see the world through the rose tinted glasses.
It makes sense to me that someone that has a more analytical mind would think that way, and be drawn to stem.
@hankthetank89 I can see the pyramid being especially true on the lower end. If you are starving, freezing, being chased by an opposing army or something, you might be pissed about that, but not have the time to think about your own purpose of things like that.
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Training is my therapy, therapy is also my therapy.
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isnt that just like…taking the mind off it? like, if there is an actual problem, does doing anything that does not fix the problem, but make you not think about it, just making it worse in the long run?
people mention chemical imbalances here, etc… that cant be fixed by lifting a dumbbell imo. and also if it is because of something being bad in your life, lifting stuff doesnt really fix the problem also…
idk, since im autistic, i cant even imagine how it feels to think about stuff in that way so im just guessing 