That was an interesting read. I’m willing to agree with it. I know in my past there were men that I dated that I quickly dismissed because they were not necessarily too nice, but a bit smothering. I consider myself to be a moderately progressive woman, but I still conform to generally accepted gender characteristics. My husband is very masculine. Occasionally stoic. Not always great at showing his emotions. But he is compassionate in his own way and kind. I would say his manly man bullshit is what attracted me to him, but it’s the softer things that make our relationship great. He is not afraid to take control of a situation and he is more than capable of protecting his family, but he is also kind and affectionate when I need him to be. So yeah. The things that attracted me to him aren’t necessarily the things that keep me attracted to him.
Something I wonder is if it’s less about being agreeable than about what agreeableness signals
Most of the friends I’m actually close to are very agreeable, but I would never consider dating any of them because they tend to be very “go with the flow” and are willing to settle if not pushed. I think a lot of women want their men to be ambitious and driven. These traits aren’t incompatible with being highly agreeable, but from my limited observation, there seems to be a negative correlation.
My dad and brother are like this. Without someone to push them, they don’t really get anything done, but with someone to push them, they excel because people like working with them and they have a lot of ability (intellignece, skill, knowledge etc).
For me, these people make awesome friends and are probably the only type of people who get along with me on a close and long term level, but I would never want to be life partners with someone like that because I would have to be the one pushing them. Better to outsource the pushing to another woman and enjoy the benefits of friendship or business partnership
Well said
Agreed.
This is my time. I can save this great nation one baby momma at a time.
Its time for heros to step up and zeros to step back. I’m gonna need a stock of Axe body spray and wine coolers though. Might have to start a go fund me.
The things that draw us in turn into things that irritate us, then into things we miss when they’re gone.
I think there’s a disconnect between “ambition” and “shared goals.” As a man those are two different things.
Guys that won’t change diapers are faggots. What are they afraid of? I’d like to see them slaughter an animal.
Reminds me of guys who won’t buy tampons for their woman. I remember the first time my wife (girlfriend at the time) asked me to run to store for her. She was shocked it didn’t bother me. I’m like, “why would it bother me? I just tell them at the store I like shoving them up my ass.” 
I so agree! It takes a special kind of fragile, and I can’t imagine finding a man sexy who can’t successfully take on the women’s hygiene aisle at the drug store or the diaper of the baby he helped to create. Not because I want my man buying tampons - I’m sure it’s happened over the years - but because there are certain things you just keep stocked.
What bothers me about it is that it represents fear of judgment on the part of a grocery/drug store clerk. And that’s a little too fearful/insecure for me.
I do sympathize with men’s worry over newborn baby care. They ARE small and fragile, and men’s hands big and rough.
Definitely.
To say it in a pretty harsh way: shit and blood are a part of life. No reason to fear them.
Slaughtering animals was a good point, since after you gut few beasts dirty diapers or used tampons don’t seem so awful anymore.
This might sound grotesque, but it should not.
Guzzo told Newsweek: "The decline in U.S. fertility started happening around the Great Recession. That decline has largely been due to declining births to women in their teens and early 20s, which is generally good news since many of these births would have been unplanned and occurring to women who themselves would say those births didn’t happen at the right point in their lives.”
Lol @ “Hey guys, this fertility crisis is terrible, but women not trying for pregnancy when they’re the most fertile is good.”
How are parents in their teens and early 20’s supposed to provide for child?
Agreed. Ironically.
I’ve discussed women naturally “folding in” before. It’s hard to articulate in a clinical way but in my experience women want to see men create, hold and protect a broad framework they can then exist inside of, and internally have some control over aspects of. To me the creation and maintenance of such a thing is masculine strength and assertion, and blending in, usually in a supportive way is feminine submission. Not to be mistaken for downtrodden or open to abuse.
The problem is women hate to acknowledge it, especially today, so there’s a lot of oppositional attitude and shit testing. But deeply seeded is a desire to unite in to a couple where masculine and feminine do fulfill specific roles. And I believe this is what you’re describing surface level.
And this inherently forgoes “leadership” in a relationship, as an example.
I changed probably a billion diapers. It’s not hard to apply appropriate strength and pressure inside of maximum capability. Taking care of my own offspring never seemed like a burden to me, or beneath me.
Regarding tampons, I don’t buy them. Not a hard rule but A) I’m not usually the one shopping and B) I think it’s gross. While I realize vaginas are multifunctional, I think of them as sexual objects and the whole blood thing is off putting. So buying tampons would be like walking in the bathroom right after a woman pooped. Not pleasant, nor something I want o recall. Could not give a rats ass what a retail clerk thinks though.
I do. Obviously they’re not for me. I also usually get flowers, chocolate, and some coconut water also.
I’ve definitely seen some women behind me in line give their partner the stinkeye.
This is why I only buy toilet paper for myself. I can’t bear the thought of what others might use it for, and want no part of whatever it is.
Kleenex, too.
I suppose we all find our niche.
Sorry it bothers you.
For what it’s worth, I make the attempt to stay presentable as well, in my marriage. While we are comfortable, we both appreciate maintaining some decorum for one another. And we haven’t lost the proverbial flame.
I dont particularly like the term “nice guy” in the way they have framed it there for headline purposes, but I think that article tracks with what most of us already know.
I think the “nice guy” thing is a bit of a miscategorisation… Its not being “nice” that women find unattractive, its really being a pushover. A willingness to forgo your goals, plans, opinions, desires, etc… From the huge things like giving up your dreams because she doesnt like the idea, to the “what do you want for dinner tonight? … Eh, whatever you want is fine” … They want you to have opinions and thoughts and act on them. “Lets get chinese and I know a great place to order from, you just sit back and enjoy the food honey”
I think being a pushover is so off putting to women and being with an assertive, opinionated, strong willed person is so much more desirable that you could can carry a whole host of other negative traits and it still wont matter. This is where the “assholes get the girl” idea comes from.
Hence the “pound the table” moment in your relationship, and the shit-testing mentioned elsewhere. Your wife wanted to see if you were a pushover and was willing to get a moment of “asshole” behavior to see it.
Extrapolated out, many women would rather be with that type of guy (either consciously or more viscerally, what we might call it “attraction”) that they will tolerate all sorts of other behavior to do so.
Yes. I don’t know why anyone (male or female) would ever want to be with someone who never challenged them or never had their own opinions. I think the push back between my husband and myself is one of the great things in our relationship. It made us both grow and improve as people and as partners.
This is just annoying. If I wanted to make all of the decisions I wouldn’t bother asking.
Your post is spot on and I agree with all of it. I mean, when I think of my friends and male family members, they have women, and they are nice, loving, and kind. They’re not all “alpha males” (yawn), but they have good self images, are competent in what they do, and are assertive. The same goes for the men my female cousins are married to.
If I recall correctly (much time has gone since I read it), in the book No More Mr. Nice Guy by Dr. Robert Glover, he said that in some cases of choosing Mr. Nice Guy or a jerk, there is not much of a choice, and typically the jerk makes a move while Nice Guy does not.
That’s a good question talking heads and geriatric politicians need to address if they’re going to complain about such a pressing issue, by addressing culture, education, law, and the economy.
Maybe this is true for women in general, but for me, I want to create my frame work.
I don’t want a partner that requires pushing because it’s extra effort I have to put in.
I guess the better analogy would be having a coauthor who you have to tell what to do and remind them to do their part vs having a coauthor who engages in discussion and always comes up with ideas on how to improve the study design or creative ways to get around issues. I’m not looking to the coauthor to establish or protect a framework as the leader.
Wrt my parents, my mum doesn’t need my dad to be a household leader. She needs him, for example, to seek out business connections himself instead of relying on her to always find and remind him about events