Highschool boyfriend of mine did the door thing to me. Now I know where he got it. Lol
Fortunately I managed to live my entire life without the Mario test.
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Ok, you got me. Iāve never tried to do the Mario test. LOL
Luckily Iāve driven base jammer trucks my entire life and have always had manual locks.
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Iām old enough that manual locks were the most common in my first half of life. Crank windows too! How will young men find worthy women in these days of automatic door locks?
Iāve been listening to it as I prep food for the day - really interesting. Iām crazy-busy at work this week but will be back to talk about it.
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To correct routinely bad behavior.
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Got it. He makes some good points.
I honestly canāt think of a good substitute for it. Nothing so simple you can do on a first date. The shopping cart is a great test of character, but you donāt usually see if a woman puts her shopping cart back until youāve been together a while.
Well, at least in modern times we can still do the Mario test
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Nice tits.
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Iām not sure Iām ok with manipulation. I prefer a direct approach. Itās very hard to use the excuse āI didnāt know it bothered youā when you have been told directly. Iām also a big fan of the phrase āare you sure this is the precedent you want to set?ā ie. Itās your familyās thing, I shouldnāt have to go.
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I could kind of see if it was a known social expectation and ignoring it would be a "signā but this one seems a bit contrived to me.
I only had one girlfriend during the time period I had a car with manual locks, and this was early 2000ās so not the pre-90ās (remote unlocks were very common already, I was just a poor 18 year old so my car was 25 years old) ā¦ but what this a āknownā thing a girl should do, like opening her car door was on the mens side of the equation?
I cant recall her ever doing this, nor did I ever think to expect it of her. But she would do things like make baked goods, go out of her way to do nice things, surprises, was very thoughtful with her actions and gifts and such, etcā¦
This kind of strikes me behavior self described macho alpha men would usually attribute to women. Trying to manipulate someone to do what you want instead of just telling them. Kind of sounds like the aforementioned āshit testā, but just with a different outcome in mind.
Perhaps manipulation doesnāt apply in what Iām thinking of and another term is suitable. I also should have said this might be a course of correction after addressing something serious over and over and over again. I personally am not out to test anyone and Iāve never thought of it.
I think itās important to acknowledge and agree on base level definitions, especially in online chats with a cascading, snippets format. Almost every convo derails in to projected individual understanding and context instead.
Manipulation can be applied in many forms/use cases.
For example, I changed the oil in my Fatboy last weekend in anticipation of āriding seasonā finally arriving in Texas. To do this I had to manipulate a few bolts and whatnot with tools.
In context of relationships I see this type of behavior manipulation as corrective action or reinforcement of desired traits and behavior whether itās a romantic relationship, parent/child, professional, neighborly et cetera. But the manipulation can occur via direct response and addressing of a behavior or action.
āShit testingā is emotional manipulation of another without real cause to see a created outcome of response. Itās purely manipulative for its own sake to artificially test another. Application can make sense, but this is largely toxic imo. Unnecessary friction in creating a problem where there wasnāt one to see response to a problem.
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This is what I have in mind.
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Yeah thatās kind of what I was getting at in my coaching thing earlier,
Lots of relationship advice out there about how to ārewardā certain behavior and discourage other behavior. Even something simple like Saying thanks or doing something positive if they do the thing you like. Which is itself a certain type of āmanipulationā
If its done in service of the relationship and the betterment of each partner its the ācoachingā type of manipulation and can be healthy and good. If its done in service of your own wants and desires at the expense of the other persons, its the coercive/abusive type. Plenty of examples out there of this type.
Probably a good rule of thumb is if you wouldnāt want the other person to find out what youāre doing and why, thatās the bad kind.
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Agreed.
So in context of shit testing, if itās essentially a one way role-play exercise for scenario testing and practice and the recipient isnāt clued in, then itās a hidden and bad behavior. Also problematic in a practical sense because the woman risks coming off argumentative, emotionally unstable and even oppositional by forcing issues out of hand.
Regarding the idea of when manipulation is appropriate, I would suggest the first definition of open and direct encouragement or discouragement following real input or impetus is healthy. And if not relationship shaping as an ongoing communication method, it is boundary defining and can even inform a genuine sense of āright fitā or not early in a relationship in a real and genuine way.
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New article.
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Interesting. My wife and I have gone back and forth on this a few times. I think I shared in the other thread how devastated she was that I out earned her.
Then, it changed, and I was not devastated at all. Then further on, I became a stay at home dad taking care of my son, which Iām still quite proud of. I think that was time very well spent.
My wife did come around to the āall goes into the same poolā type of thinking once we discussed it quite a bit.
And as the pendulum swings, Iāve recovered from the heart attack about as much as Iām going to, and back to earning again, while she does more of the domestic stuff- Because weāre both on the same team- and these things need done.
Its strange to me when guys refuse to do any type of housekeeping. Like, is this guy just a slob hiding behind social norms, or an infant throwing a tantrum?
Maybe its a long term effect of growing up without a mother. 
. I was raised to believe that you do these things- domestic, personal and professional- because they need done. Period.
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My husband shares this thought. He lived alone for a long time and had to do it all. He tells my sons that itās not about if youāre a guy or a girl. Itās your home, you live there, you are responsible for helping keep it clean and neat.
Iām not sure if he ever felt that it would be bad for me to out earn him. I actually think it pissed him off when I earned much less than him. We are pretty close to equal now and I think he likes the idea of being able to live off of my salary at some point.
When we were first married we kept separate finances. That was a nightmare. He made WAY more than me. I was barely able to pay for gas and he had a very comfortable savings. It created animosity. We finally decided everything should be together and never looked back. We are a partnership. He has things at home that he is responsible for and I have my things. We both contribute to our home and our finances.
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Good!
Iām the same way. My wife does a lot. She fixes stuff, decorates the home for all seasons and holidays, coaches soccer, cleans, helps kids with school work, shops, gardens, does yard work, and goes all out for the childrenās themed birthday parties we have at the house. For my sonās first party, there were 80 freaking people here and the theme was Winnie the Poo.
I would feel just silly and lazy if I didnāt do my part. But besides that, chores have to be done and I donāt want to live in a mess (although the messes donāt actually end with kids). Who wants dirty floors and bathroom, greasy stoves, and an overflowing sink?
Iāve even have come across big macho content on social media in which tough guys say men shouldnāt change diapers, feed babies, or push strollers. Iām home on Saturdays with kids while my wife works them. How were those recommendations supposed to work out when they were very little, especially during warm weather? Obviously that sort of content is performative, but I think some men actually think like that.
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