Men Ages 18-25

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Hey, wait a minute! Since its wrong to be selfish, why should you guys want to keep your lives for yourselves? Since service to others is noble, shouldn’t you gents WANT to serve the needs of your fellow Americans?

I mean, really, don’t you care about the grocer in Salt Lake City, or the auto mechanic near Boston, or the kids in an orphanage near Philadelphia? If you are immoral enough to choose your own happiness over theirs, then the government has the right to force you to voluntarily defend all the people.

That’s one reason the draft was created — to force you to choose to be moral, you selfish brutes you!!!

Headhunter

BTW: I’m a teacher in New Jersey and drive a Ford Focus! I don’t need none of you white trash protectin’ me! We are men here in Jersey, right, Harris?
Right, bro? ;)[/quote]

Your psychosis grows by the day.

Please leave me out of your ramblings, you sub-Oogie stalker piece of shit.

[quote]endgamer711 wrote:
Mostly the great representative body of the people (if you can call it that with a straight face) never actually bothers to declare war anymore. Iraq is a case in point.

[/quote]

I think they are referring to Congress, which did vote in a joint resolution to use force in Iraq.

[quote]lucasa wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Hack Wilson wrote:

But, you’re right. No sense insulting a lot of good people because one dumb, little shit thinks he’s a star.

LOL.

It is fuckin pathetic that I bother you this much. It’s the internet you fucktard.

Why don’t you go to the East Wing of your mansion and have a drink or something to clear your head?

It could only be ironic that the guy who calls you a “dumb little shit who thinks he’s a star” once claimed to be “a proven winner both on the field and in life”.

Congrats on the degree.
[/quote]

I am a proven winner. Johns Hopkins sent a team physicians to my house a few years back. They ran some tests and, yep, they proved it. Scientifically proven winner! And let me tell you, between you and I, it feels good!

[quote]harris447 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Hey, wait a minute! Since its wrong to be selfish, why should you guys want to keep your lives for yourselves? Since service to others is noble, shouldn’t you gents WANT to serve the needs of your fellow Americans?

I mean, really, don’t you care about the grocer in Salt Lake City, or the auto mechanic near Boston, or the kids in an orphanage near Philadelphia? If you are immoral enough to choose your own happiness over theirs, then the government has the right to force you to voluntarily defend all the people.

That’s one reason the draft was created — to force you to choose to be moral, you selfish brutes you!!!

Headhunter

BTW: I’m a teacher in New Jersey and drive a Ford Focus! I don’t need none of you white trash protectin’ me! We are men here in Jersey, right, Harris?
Right, bro? :wink:

Your psychosis grows by the day.

Please leave me out of your ramblings, you sub-Oogie stalker piece of shit.
[/quote]

LOL! Did you post earlier in this thread? Didn’t see it. I was testing to see if you were following me around. Now, is it ‘proven’ or ‘proved’? I always get those mixed up…but hey, I’m a math teacher. We’re all psychotic and our english skills are minimal… :wink:

[quote]Hack Wilson wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
When my country holds a bayonet to my back to get me to fight, it is no longer my country anymore…

Yeah. Today’s 18-25 crowd won’t fight. Oh, unless it’s for a Playstation 3, that is![/quote]

Well now. I understand that you haven’t served in the military. You said that you had a full ride football scholarship, so the choice was easy. Well what about loose tool. He started his college 3 years late to serve. Why couldn’t you be more like him Since you are so worried about other people not being in the military, why don’t we discuss your lack of a service record. Are you over the age of 42 hack? If your not, welll then maybe you should just go on down to the recruiting office and sign up. You might even be able to go through OCS and become an officer, with your college degree and all. And think of all the option that you have to serve! Not just active duty, but reserves and national guard. I guess the generation before mine isn’t really keen on fighting either.

Your hatred for law enforcement is really misplaced. The “war on terror” isn’t just being fought by soldiers in Iraq and Afganistan. Everyday local state and federal police are fighting the war on terror. 9/11 could have been delayed, stopped, or its effects lessened by better law enforcement. Ourgovernment has INS agents that are making sure that we don’t have undocumented foreign nationals in our country, going to flight school or what not.

Our borders? Protected by POLICE not by the army. Hate to tell you that.

[quote]BarneyFife wrote:
Hack Wilson wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
When my country holds a bayonet to my back to get me to fight, it is no longer my country anymore…

Yeah. Today’s 18-25 crowd won’t fight. Oh, unless it’s for a Playstation 3, that is!

Well now. I understand that you haven’t served in the military. You said that you had a full ride football scholarship, so the choice was easy. Well what about loose tool. He started his college 3 years late to serve. Why couldn’t you be more like him Since you are so worried about other people not being in the military, why don’t we discuss your lack of a service record. Are you over the age of 42 hack? If your not, welll then maybe you should just go on down to the recruiting office and sign up. You might even be able to go through OCS and become an officer, with your college degree and all. And think of all the option that you have to serve! Not just active duty, but reserves and national guard. I guess the generation before mine isn’t really keen on fighting either.

Your hatred for law enforcement is really misplaced. The “war on terror” isn’t just being fought by soldiers in Iraq and Afganistan. Everyday local state and federal police are fighting the war on terror. 9/11 could have been delayed, stopped, or its effects lessened by better law enforcement. Ourgovernment has INS agents that are making sure that we don’t have undocumented foreign nationals in our country, going to flight school or what not.

Our borders? Protected by POLICE not by the army. Hate to tell you that. [/quote]

Yeah. I didn’t get most of that. Pretty disjointed. I’m sure you meant well.

You make a lot of assumtions about me. It’s fun. Do it some more. I can only make two assumptions about you:

  1. You should put up an avatar in which you are wearing a SHIRT.

  2. You are not very bright.

Now we can’t have it both ways on here with cops. We have threads saying they’re nuts and abuse their power. And we have threads thanking them for their valiant service. I’m in the middle. I think most cops do it for a job. Some do it to REALLY make a difference. And some do it to exercise their oversized egos after the get buzzed on power. My guess: You fall in the third category.

Since you are little more than dumb kid, I’ll tell you what it was like for people my age, at the end of the Cold War: The military was not the place our ‘best and brightest’ went. It was where the kids who couldn’t get into to college went. It’s where the vocational schook kids went when they washed out as electricians because they couldn’t stay sober.

If you think that I should have ditched my scholarship and an opporutinty - one day - to play in the NFL (and at the VERY least get a great education for nothing), well that shows why you don’t have the sense to NOT post pics of you with your shirt off.

[quote]BarneyFife wrote:
Hack Wilson wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
When my country holds a bayonet to my back to get me to fight, it is no longer my country anymore…

Yeah. Today’s 18-25 crowd won’t fight. Oh, unless it’s for a Playstation 3, that is!

Well now. I understand that you haven’t served in the military. You said that you had a full ride football scholarship, so the choice was easy. Well what about loose tool. He started his college 3 years late to serve. Why couldn’t you be more like him Since you are so worried about other people not being in the military, why don’t we discuss your lack of a service record. Are you over the age of 42 hack? If your not, welll then maybe you should just go on down to the recruiting office and sign up. You might even be able to go through OCS and become an officer, with your college degree and all. And think of all the option that you have to serve! Not just active duty, but reserves and national guard. I guess the generation before mine isn’t really keen on fighting either.

Your hatred for law enforcement is really misplaced. The “war on terror” isn’t just being fought by soldiers in Iraq and Afganistan. Everyday local state and federal police are fighting the war on terror. 9/11 could have been delayed, stopped, or its effects lessened by better law enforcement. Ourgovernment has INS agents that are making sure that we don’t have undocumented foreign nationals in our country, going to flight school or what not.

Our borders? Protected by POLICE not by the army. Hate to tell you that. [/quote]

Hey, cocksucker? When did I ever criticize anyone for not being in the military?

Has there been a trend, recently, in persuing wars and conflicts of political interest rather than necessity, yes. But some of you pussies fail to grasp the concept, that freedom is not free. It is a responsibility of all citizens of a free nation to defend it. I guess Im not so much for a draft but some sort of mandatory national service.

[quote]Hack Wilson wrote:
BarneyFife wrote:
Hack Wilson wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
When my country holds a bayonet to my back to get me to fight, it is no longer my country anymore…

Yeah. Today’s 18-25 crowd won’t fight. Oh, unless it’s for a Playstation 3, that is!

Well now. I understand that you haven’t served in the military. You said that you had a full ride football scholarship, so the choice was easy. Well what about loose tool. He started his college 3 years late to serve. Why couldn’t you be more like him Since you are so worried about other people not being in the military, why don’t we discuss your lack of a service record. Are you over the age of 42 hack? If your not, welll then maybe you should just go on down to the recruiting office and sign up. You might even be able to go through OCS and become an officer, with your college degree and all. And think of all the option that you have to serve! Not just active duty, but reserves and national guard. I guess the generation before mine isn’t really keen on fighting either.

Your hatred for law enforcement is really misplaced. The “war on terror” isn’t just being fought by soldiers in Iraq and Afganistan. Everyday local state and federal police are fighting the war on terror. 9/11 could have been delayed, stopped, or its effects lessened by better law enforcement. Ourgovernment has INS agents that are making sure that we don’t have undocumented foreign nationals in our country, going to flight school or what not.

Our borders? Protected by POLICE not by the army. Hate to tell you that.

Yeah. I didn’t get most of that. Pretty disjointed. I’m sure you meant well.

You make a lot of assumtions about me. It’s fun. Do it some more. I can only make two assumptions about you:

  1. You should put up an avatar in which you are wearing a SHIRT.

  2. You are not very bright.

Now we can’t have it both ways on here with cops. We have threads saying they’re nuts and abuse their power. And we have threads thanking them for their valiant service. I’m in the middle. I think most cops do it for a job. Some do it to REALLY make a difference. And some do it to exercise their oversized egos after the get buzzed on power. My guess: You fall in the third category.

Since you are little more than dumb kid, I’ll tell you what it was like for people my age, at the end of the Cold War: The military was not the place our ‘best and brightest’ went. It was where the kids who couldn’t get into to college went. It’s where the vocational schook kids went when they washed out as electricians because they couldn’t stay sober.

If you think that I should have ditched my scholarship and an opporutinty - one day - to play in the NFL (and at the VERY least get a great education for nothing), well that shows why you don’t have the sense to NOT post pics of you with your shirt off.

[/quote]

I’m not getting in the middle of a fight but I will take issue with one point.

The military and the Army at the end of the Cold War ,which I’ll define as late 80’s, early 90’s, attracted a talented bunch of people. The reforms that took place in the late 70’s and early 80’s really kicked in by then. The Army, in particular had a high state of combat readiness and massive numbers of troops. Equipment from the Reagan buildup was new and in good shape.

Desert Storm was the test and the military tore up the oppostion at all levels.

I joined with an undergraduate degree and went to grad school when I left the Army. I wasn’t that unusual. Lot’s of young officers from that era didn’t reenlist because the opposition was gone and the military downsized.

It wasn’t that I didn’t have options, I just wanted to do something different. I wanted to serve my country and I was looking for some adventure before I started a real career. Very common reasons.

Alright gentlemen back to it.

[quote]buffballswell wrote:
Has there been a trend, recently, in persuing wars and conflicts of political interest rather than necessity, yes. But some of you pussies fail to grasp the concept, that freedom is not free. It is a responsibility of all citizens of a free nation to defend it. I guess Im not so much for a draft but some sort of mandatory national service.[/quote]

Maybe you do not get that you cannot force freedom on someone. If I choose not to fight and stay a slave that is my choice to make.

Plus, if the US were attacked, people would rush to arms…

The US does not have enough voluntary soldiers to build an empire of fear?

Great!

Apparently free men take no joy in killing and enslaving others in the name of freedom or the war on terror.

To re-introduce a mandatory service to force free citizens to “support” a misguided policy => Good Morning Vieeeetnam!!!

[quote]orion wrote:

Plus, if the US were attacked, people would rush to arms…

[/quote]

Exactly. The whole idea of forcing men to fight is crazy to me.

The Union did it in the Civil War, and there were even riots for that.

There is also no way that a conscriptee is going to give a fuck about fighting compared with someone who has signed up to defend their country or fight for a cause.

The United States does not need a bigger army- we can’t even equip the one we have with the right stuff.

No country poses a threat right now to America that can be fought with tanks and massed infantry- we are in a new era.

Not too mention if America was ever attacked, people would come out of the woodwork to fight for the mystic dirt of home…

[quote]hedo wrote:

I’m not getting in the middle of a fight but I will take issue with one point.

The military and the Army at the end of the Cold War ,which I’ll define as late 80’s, early 90’s, attracted a talented bunch of people. The reforms that took place in the late 70’s and early 80’s really kicked in by then. The Army, in particular had a high state of combat readiness and massive numbers of troops. Equipment from the Reagan buildup was new and in good shape.

Desert Storm was the test and the military tore up the oppostion at all levels.

I joined with an undergraduate degree and went to grad school when I left the Army. I wasn’t that unusual. Lot’s of young officers from that era didn’t reenlist because the opposition was gone and the military downsized.

It wasn’t that I didn’t have options, I just wanted to do something different. I wanted to serve my country and I was looking for some adventure before I started a real career. Very common reasons.

Alright gentlemen back to it.

[/quote]

Certainly fair enough. I did do not recall having much exposure to the military around that time. It was simply not seriously presented to me as a viable option. That said, I think I’d have done exactly what I did and I’m not apologizing for it. Primarily because I never busted anyone’s balls for not going into the Serive, FOR going into the Service, or any variation thereof. It’s not something I think much about.

[quote]Hack Wilson wrote:

I am a proven winner. Johns Hopkins sent a team physicians to my house a few years back. They ran some tests and, yep, they proved it. Scientifically proven winner! And let me tell you, between you and I, it feels good![/quote]

I’m not surprised, the doctors at my elementary school used to tell the “special needs” kids they were winners to make 'em feel good too.

[quote]BarneyFife wrote:
Hack Wilson wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
When my country holds a bayonet to my back to get me to fight, it is no longer my country anymore…

Yeah. Today’s 18-25 crowd won’t fight. Oh, unless it’s for a Playstation 3, that is!

Well now. I understand that you haven’t served in the military. You said that you had a full ride football scholarship, so the choice was easy.
[/quote]

laugh Yeah, I’m sure the other vets on the board are with me on this. If I had a dollar for every time a person told me they almost joined the military well I wouldn’t be looking for a better job. That is pretty insulting to a lot of us.

[quote]
Your hatred for law enforcement is really misplaced. The “war on terror” isn’t just being fought by soldiers in Iraq and Afganistan. Everyday local state and federal police are fighting the war on terror.

[/quote] Yes, the police are fighting the war on terror though it seems more and more to appear that they are fighting against their own people instead of genuine terrorists.[quote]

Our borders? Protected by POLICE not by the army. Hate to tell you that. [/quote]

Actually it seems that the borders are being best protected by the minutemen. laugh That said Fife, though I really really heavily disagree with you on a lot and give you some shit, I apologize for the personal attack on that last post toward you. I’m sure you’re a pretty good guy and I should be a little more professional than that…even on a stupid internet forum.

mike

mike

[quote]Hack Wilson wrote:
BarneyFife wrote:
Hack Wilson wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
When my country holds a bayonet to my back to get me to fight, it is no longer my country anymore…

Yeah. Today’s 18-25 crowd won’t fight. Oh, unless it’s for a Playstation 3, that is!

Well now. I understand that you haven’t served in the military. You said that you had a full ride football scholarship, so the choice was easy. Well what about loose tool. He started his college 3 years late to serve. Why couldn’t you be more like him Since you are so worried about other people not being in the military, why don’t we discuss your lack of a service record. Are you over the age of 42 hack? If your not, welll then maybe you should just go on down to the recruiting office and sign up. You might even be able to go through OCS and become an officer, with your college degree and all. And think of all the option that you have to serve! Not just active duty, but reserves and national guard. I guess the generation before mine isn’t really keen on fighting either.

Your hatred for law enforcement is really misplaced. The “war on terror” isn’t just being fought by soldiers in Iraq and Afganistan. Everyday local state and federal police are fighting the war on terror. 9/11 could have been delayed, stopped, or its effects lessened by better law enforcement. Ourgovernment has INS agents that are making sure that we don’t have undocumented foreign nationals in our country, going to flight school or what not.

Our borders? Protected by POLICE not by the army. Hate to tell you that.

Yeah. I didn’t get most of that. Pretty disjointed. I’m sure you meant well.

You make a lot of assumtions about me. It’s fun. Do it some more. I can only make two assumptions about you:

  1. You should put up an avatar in which you are wearing a SHIRT.

  2. You are not very bright.

Now we can’t have it both ways on here with cops. We have threads saying they’re nuts and abuse their power. And we have threads thanking them for their valiant service. I’m in the middle. I think most cops do it for a job. Some do it to REALLY make a difference. And some do it to exercise their oversized egos after the get buzzed on power. My guess: You fall in the third category.

Since you are little more than dumb kid, I’ll tell you what it was like for people my age, at the end of the Cold War: The military was not the place our ‘best and brightest’ went. It was where the kids who couldn’t get into to college went. It’s where the vocational schook kids went when they washed out as electricians because they couldn’t stay sober.

If you think that I should have ditched my scholarship and an opporutinty - one day - to play in the NFL (and at the VERY least get a great education for nothing), well that shows why you don’t have the sense to NOT post pics of you with your shirt off.

[/quote]

So basically what you’re saying is “You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”

Trying telling all this stuff to Patrick Tillman next time you go to a Cards game. Oh wait…you can’t. Regardless, you don’t have to excuse your decision not to join the military. You aren’t a bad guy for not joining and there’s no shame in it. But it is wrong to speak from a place of authority merely because you “almost” joined.

mike

[quote]buffballswell wrote:
Has there been a trend, recently, in persuing wars and conflicts of political interest rather than necessity, yes. But some of you pussies fail to grasp the concept, that freedom is not free. It is a responsibility of all citizens of a free nation to defend it. I guess Im not so much for a draft but some sort of mandatory national service.[/quote]

Would you not consider that when the gov’t takes a third of your earnings then that is “national service” enough? The idea that the draft is not SLAVERY is asinine. You can make an intelligent argument that direct taxation is or is not, but a draft is so blatantly far beyond the pale it makes me sick.

mike

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
orion wrote:

Plus, if the US were attacked, people would rush to arms…

Exactly. The whole idea of forcing men to fight is crazy to me.

The Union did it in the Civil War, and there were even riots for that.

There is also no way that a conscriptee is going to give a fuck about fighting compared with someone who has signed up to defend their country or fight for a cause.

The United States does not need a bigger army- we can’t even equip the one we have with the right stuff.

No country poses a threat right now to America that can be fought with tanks and massed infantry- we are in a new era.

Not too mention if America was ever attacked, people would come out of the woodwork to fight for the mystic dirt of home…[/quote]

Agreed. We absolutely do not need a bigger army. We need a small one that isn’t full of pussies. When people say we don’t have enough troops in Iraq yet there were soldiers whose job it was to tell us Marines to keep our covers off of the table when we are at the chow hall(and they couldn’t even do that because what Marine is going to listen to her?), then the army is too big.

That said, the idea that our troops cannot be equipped is vastly overrated. Our men are dying just as much for having too much armor as they are for having not enough. Have you ever actually tried to fight in a flak, kevlar and SAPI plates? It’s like the cripple fight in South Park.

Funny too how all those that think Rummy bashing is cool don’t realize that a small sleek military is what he fought for and that Rumsfeld (and coincidently Milton Friedman R.I.P.)was on the cutting edge in suggesting the end to the draft in 'Nam.

mike

If you want to get some insight on military life and how the men are trained and led watch this graduation speech.

It may give you an interesting perspective on how the grunts value themselves in the grand scheme of things. They don’t feel sorry about their choices men. I’d be honored to lead some of today’s troopers.

FYI, LTC White is the kind of officer you’d follow to hell carrying a gas can.

https://www.infantry.army.mil/videos/video22/index.htm

I don’t think people would rush to arms if the country was attacked. The country has been pussified to a great degree. It really has. I 'd like to think they would but if the agressor offered terms most of the population would roll over in less then a week.

We need a bigger army because most troops aren’t cut our for combat. Less then 5% of soldiers are killers. They need support, maitenance and logistics.

I don’t want my warfighters PM’ing the equipment. I want them out fighting and killing the enemy. To selct those warfighters you need a pool of talent. If you have a large pool to draw from then you will have more soldiers to draw from. I wouldn’t want the whole army to be conscripts but the conscripts can serve a purpose.

Sorry if you can’t serve your country when they call you then you shouldn’t expect others to do it for you. It’s not fair on those that are called and who go.

I also wouldn’t get to tied up with this whole chickenhawk debate. Most people didn’t serve in the military and only a small percentage of them acutall saw combat. It doesn’t qualify you for anything except more combat. I don’t want my politcal leaders making choices based on how hard combat may be on the troops. It’s a recipe for disaster and weakness. Political leaders decide why. General take care of the “how” part.

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:

Yes, the police are fighting the war on terror though it seems more and more to appear that they are fighting against their own people instead of genuine terrorists.
[/quote]

Hrm. The last time I checked, Timothy McVey was one of us, Terry Nichols was one of us, Them folks at the branch davidand compound were ones of us, oh, charles manson is an American born citizen too.

Terrorists can be Americans, or foreigners. both have got to be dealt with.

EDIT* so was the unabomber, and the abortion clinic bomber.