[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]nephorm wrote:
So how does one join this google plus thing?
Edit: I am already a member of google plus. Is there a particular circle to which some of you belong?[/quote]
Send me an email to the address in my hub and I can help you out.
[/quote]
Done.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Furrowed brows!
Working with kids I had a feelings chart I used with little faces I’d drawn to graph feelings for the day or week, and the angry face had a V for eyebrows. Because my graph was nice (not as complex as some readily available, but more than the happy-to-mad you sometimes see) it spread through my team. A common question among us was “is that a V I see? Are you upset?”
For women and children particularly, I think, the eyebrows tell a lot. With men I’d look more to the jaw.[/quote]
My wife used to work with ASD and other types of developmentally challenged kids. I have several of those magnetic stickers.
They’re pretty handy sometimes.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]Severiano wrote:
Dudes get their signals mixed. If you aren’t casual sex material, then you must be G.F. or potential wifey material in their eyes. Kinda hard to be in the middle but that’s where you seem to be. I’m guessing you like to be in a mix of men until you meet one who really gives you butterflies, and keeps giving you butterflies by not showing he’s too interested…
The thing is, that means you want a guy who isn’t that interested in you, or is really interested in you but doesn’t show it lol.
The thing is, guys are going to take that to mean they should make a strong play for you, where the guys that understand you are probably just going to go along with it until they get attached, or you make yourself more clear about what it is you want. The problem is, if YOU figure you want to settle down and he’s on cruise control, he may not want what you do…
I’ll bet you date lots of players, player. 
[/quote]
Yes, mostly exactly. Except I love and respond to the strong plays of GF/Wifey guys, but I don’t want to jump into something stupid five minutes after I meet someone. It is mixed signals on my part. That’s the problem. I think it’s a disconnect between my mind (take your time, meet men, go slowly, make sure) and my emotions and behavior, which draw men who aggressively seek GF/Wifey.
To be honest, if men are interested in me and not showing it aggressively, I probably don’t even realize they’re there.
[/quote]
Sounds like you need to figure out what you want lol, you don’t know men very well.
Guys you think you want aren’t wired the way you think. If a genuine dude thinks you aren’t reciprocating after he puts in effort to make you happy, he’s going to feel lost and act weird, maybe that’s why they try to get so close to you? You aren’t anchoring the emotional side by providing that input. That’s what real men do, try to provide and make their mates happy, safe, secure, respected, loved.
The guys that will stick around are the ones looking to see what they can get from you, kinda like a vulture sticking around after a lion. Once they are done with you/ usually once you catch on their game is over. But you know this already, right???
I’m kinda claiming there are two type of men, really men are opportunists both lion and vulture. It kinda sucks being a lion when she’s keeping allll those vultures around and the vultures keep getting all the attention.
[quote]Severiano wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]Severiano wrote:
Dudes get their signals mixed. If you aren’t casual sex material, then you must be G.F. or potential wifey material in their eyes. Kinda hard to be in the middle but that’s where you seem to be. I’m guessing you like to be in a mix of men until you meet one who really gives you butterflies, and keeps giving you butterflies by not showing he’s too interested…
The thing is, that means you want a guy who isn’t that interested in you, or is really interested in you but doesn’t show it lol.
The thing is, guys are going to take that to mean they should make a strong play for you, where the guys that understand you are probably just going to go along with it until they get attached, or you make yourself more clear about what it is you want. The problem is, if YOU figure you want to settle down and he’s on cruise control, he may not want what you do…
I’ll bet you date lots of players, player.
[/quote]
Yes, mostly exactly. Except I love and respond to the strong plays of GF/Wifey guys, but I don’t want to jump into something stupid five minutes after I meet someone. It is mixed signals on my part. That’s the problem. I think it’s a disconnect between my mind (take your time, meet men, go slowly, make sure) and my emotions and behavior, which draw men who aggressively seek GF/Wifey.
To be honest, if men are interested in me and not showing it aggressively, I probably don’t even realize they’re there.
[/quote]
Sounds like you need to figure out what you want lol, you don’t know men very well.
Guys you think you want aren’t wired the way you think. If a genuine dude thinks you aren’t reciprocating after he puts in effort to make you happy, he’s going to feel lost and act weird, maybe that’s why they try to get so close to you? You aren’t anchoring the emotional side by providing that input. That’s what real men do, try to provide and make their mates happy, safe, secure, respected, loved.
The guys that will stick around are the ones looking to see what they can get from you, kinda like a vulture sticking around after a lion. Once they are done with you/ usually once you catch on their game is over. But you know this already, right???
I’m kinda claiming there are two type of men, really men are opportunists both lion and vulture. It kinda sucks being a lion when she’s keeping allll those vultures around and the vultures keep getting all the attention.[/quote]
I disagree.
Lavishing excessive attachment and attention on a woman in the very early phases of courtship does not make a guy a lion. Trying desperately to get too close too fast is not especially genuine, just needy.
Conversely, having the sense and self-possession to allow that woman some breathing space during this time does not make him a vulture.
Someone he just started dating is not his “mate”. It would be unseemly for him to treat her as such.
Now I have to peer around looking for good guys who are giving me space and also be on the alert for opportunistic vultures? 
TheBeth?
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Now I have to peer around looking for good guys who are giving me space and also be on the alert for opportunistic vultures?
[/quote]
yup
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Now I have to peer around looking for good guys who are giving me space and also be on the alert for opportunistic vultures?
[/quote]
yup[/quote]
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Now I have to peer around looking for good guys who are giving me space and also be on the alert for opportunistic vultures?
TheBeth?[/quote]
It is perfectly possible for a “good” guy to have learned that coming on too strong is counterproductive. It is also possible for a “bad” guy to learn to mirror intense interest opportunistically.
If I were a woman with options, I think I’d err on the side of men who exhibit some self control.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Now I have to peer around looking for good guys who are giving me space and also be on the alert for opportunistic vultures?
TheBeth?[/quote]
Oh the problems of the average woman with all these options…sigh.
IME, women often focus on the wrong things, which is why they keep ending up dating “players”. They focus on the ONE or TWO things in a player and ignore all the warning signs. Similarly, they often ignore the good traits of the “good guys” and focus on the one or two shortcomings.
Overall these days, I think there are more women that are afraid of commitment than men. They simply have too many options; the opportunity to “trade up” is always there. People keep saying there are more women in the world but how the dating game typically unfolds doesn’t ever seem to reflect this.
[quote]flch95 wrote:
People keep saying there are more women in the world but how the dating game typically unfolds doesn’t ever seem to reflect this.[/quote]
Not all women are attractive. Not all men are attractive. All men want attractive women barring atypical sexual preferences.
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]flch95 wrote:
People keep saying there are more women in the world but how the dating game typically unfolds doesn’t ever seem to reflect this.[/quote]
Not all women are attractive. Not all men are attractive. All men want attractive women barring atypical sexual preferences.[/quote]
Attraction is to a great extent subjective.
A woman to whom a man is attracted is by definition attractive, and vice versa.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]flch95 wrote:
People keep saying there are more women in the world but how the dating game typically unfolds doesn’t ever seem to reflect this.[/quote]
Not all women are attractive. Not all men are attractive. All men want attractive women barring atypical sexual preferences.[/quote]
Attraction is to a great extent subjective.
A woman to whom a man is attracted is by definition attractive, and vice versa. [/quote]
I might really like gremlins, but corvettes still cost more.
[quote]nephorm wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]flch95 wrote:
People keep saying there are more women in the world but how the dating game typically unfolds doesn’t ever seem to reflect this.[/quote]
Not all women are attractive. Not all men are attractive. All men want attractive women barring atypical sexual preferences.[/quote]
Attraction is to a great extent subjective.
A woman to whom a man is attracted is by definition attractive, and vice versa. [/quote]
I might really like gremlins, but corvettes still cost more.[/quote]
I said “attraction”, not “value”.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]flch95 wrote:
People keep saying there are more women in the world but how the dating game typically unfolds doesn’t ever seem to reflect this.[/quote]
Not all women are attractive. Not all men are attractive. All men want attractive women barring atypical sexual preferences.[/quote]
Attraction is to a great extent subjective.
A woman to whom a man is attracted is by definition attractive, and vice versa. [/quote]
To a great extent, yes, but not entirely. There is a spectrum of attractiveness; it’s not binary. Rarely will you see a man pursue the lower end of the spectrum. The concentration gradient of pursuit is towards the higher end. I’m speaking solely of physical attraction.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]nephorm wrote:
I might really like gremlins, but corvettes still cost more.[/quote]
I said “attraction”, not “value”.[/quote]
My point was that I might find gremlins attractive. In fact, there might be a bunch of gremlin-chasers out there who really like gremlins. That situation does little to lessen the desire for corvettes. Spar4tee’s observation was in response to flch95’s statement that despite there being more women than men in the world, dating seems to be skewed in women’s favor.
Spar4tee correctly pointed out that attractive women are desired by attractive and unattractive men alike, contributing to the aforementioned skew.
You commented, essentially, that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But it isn’t as though every person has his or her own completely unique and independent ideas of what is attractive. Most people largely agree with attractiveness standards as they exist either biologically or culturally. Hence gremlins vs. corvettes. And while you are correct that a particular person might be attractive to me while being considered unattractive by others, such narrow usage ignores the economic effect of mutually agreed upon standards.
[quote]nephorm wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]nephorm wrote:
I might really like gremlins, but corvettes still cost more.[/quote]
I said “attraction”, not “value”.[/quote]
My point was that I might find gremlins attractive. In fact, there might be a bunch of gremlin-chasers out there who really like gremlins. That situation does little to lessen the desire for corvettes. Spar4tee’s observation was in response to flch95’s statement that despite there being more women than men in the world, dating seems to be skewed in women’s favor.
Spar4tee correctly pointed out that attractive women are desired by attractive and unattractive men alike, contributing to the aforementioned skew.
You commented, essentially, that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But it isn’t as though every person has his or her own completely unique and independent ideas of what is attractive. Most people largely agree with attractiveness standards as they exist either biologically or culturally. Hence gremlins vs. corvettes. And while you are correct that a particular person might be attractive to me while being considered unattractive by others, such narrow usage ignores the economic effect of mutually agreed upon standards.[/quote]
Fair enough.
Good to see you again, Neph.
[quote]nephorm wrote:
It is perfectly possible for a “good” guy to have learned that coming on too strong is counterproductive. [/quote]
This.
It’s like that Six Harsh Truths article, being a “good guy” just isn’t enough. Look at “dating advice” thread - OP’s a good catch (young, in shape, has a good job), but he still has trouble with women. If he does some reading up on interacting with the fairer sex, and learns some of the rules to the game, he’ll start having more success with women. (For the record, I always thought the PUA/“game” idea was douchey and stupid, mainly because I thought being a ‘good guy’ was enough. It was only when I started reading some of the books that AngryChicken recommended in order to help succeed with women that I actually started having success with women. Those books have not changed the fact that I still consider myself a ‘good guy’, I’m just a good guy who has a better grasp on how to attract women.)
It just boiled down to the fact that I finally accepted that there’s a difference between how things should be and how things actually are. Being a good guy should be good enough, but in reality, it’s not.
I’d probably even argue that there are a decent amount of ‘good guys’ out there who don’t take the right steps to attract and keep a women and end up driving her away if he even speaks to her in the first place. (It sounds like Em’s new interest might be a ‘good guy’, but calling Em at 7 in the morning simply isn’t a good move if he’s trying to attract her. She even said so herself.)
I don’t necessarily think playing by certain ‘rules’ to attract the opposite sex and being a good guy are mutually exclusive. It’s just like anything else in life, if you want a certain outcome, take the necessary steps to get the desired outcome.
Just don’t become jaded about women like Orion. 
Well when this thread hits page 46 you should make a new one called “Em’s Place” or something. It’s like a lounge where people can come sit on divans and drink white wine and bitch about stuff.
I don’t know what to say about any of this because I’ve fallen into total lust for the hunter guy and I can’t tell if he’s a good guy or a bad guy or a lion or a vulture and I can’t seem to care.
But I don’t see it as being a long term thing, so maybe now I’m the bad guy.
