[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
Just don’t become jaded about women like Orion. :P[/quote]
You do not become jaded because they reject you and you cant get laid.
You become jaded because you get laid and you know exactly why.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I don’t know what to say about any of this because I’ve fallen into total lust for the hunter guy and I can’t tell if he’s a good guy or a bad guy or a lion or a vulture and I can’t seem to care.
But I don’t see it as being a long term thing, so maybe now I’m the bad guy. 
[/quote]
So he kills stuff.
Did he caress your body with his bloody hands?
And yeah, you are the bad guy, he will be crushed if you are just in it for the crazy sex.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I don’t know what to say about any of this because I’ve fallen into total lust for the hunter guy and I can’t tell if he’s a good guy or a bad guy or a lion or a vulture and I can’t seem to care.
But I don’t see it as being a long term thing, so maybe now I’m the bad guy.
[/quote]
So he kills stuff.
Did he caress your body with his bloody hands?
And yeah, you are the bad guy, he will be crushed if you are just in it for the crazy sex.
[/quote]
Haha, no, his hands are very clean. As are his house and car and the dog he hunts with. Hunting is morally neutral for me as long as the game is eaten, but I’m not interested in taking part in the process.
He can build houses and fix cars. There’s all sorts of sexy there, though I have no particular need for either skill. Still, though. Plus I like the way he smells and I really, really like his body.
I was worried after the last guy (the smart guy) that I would never be attracted to anyone the way I was to my ex-boyfriend. I’m relieved to find that there are others. Incredibly relieved.
I’m a little worried about being a bad guy, but on the other hand we’re not talking about commitment or exclusivity at this point. Besides, maybe he has a half dozen other women on the line. Who knows? He could be a vulture.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I don’t know what to say about any of this because I’ve fallen into total lust for the hunter guy and I can’t tell if he’s a good guy or a bad guy or a lion or a vulture and I can’t seem to care.
But I don’t see it as being a long term thing, so maybe now I’m the bad guy.
[/quote]
So he kills stuff.
Did he caress your body with his bloody hands?
And yeah, you are the bad guy, he will be crushed if you are just in it for the crazy sex.
[/quote]
Haha, no, his hands are very clean. As are his house and car and the dog he hunts with. Hunting is morally neutral for me as long as the game is eaten, but I’m not interested in taking part in the process.
He can build houses and fix cars. There’s all sorts of sexy there, though I have no particular need for either skill. Still, though. Plus I like the way he smells and I really, really like his body.
I was worried after the last guy (the smart guy) that I would never be attracted to anyone the way I was to my ex-boyfriend. I’m relieved to find that there are others. Incredibly relieved.
I’m a little worried about being a bad guy, but on the other hand we’re not talking about commitment or exclusivity at this point. Besides, maybe he has a half dozen other women on the line. Who knows? He could be a vulture.
[/quote]
He is noz even a vulture, he will never circle over leftovers.
Classical bad boy, gets sexed alot.
Of course he lights your fire, and every other womans in a 50 mile radius.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I don’t know what to say about any of this because I’ve fallen into total lust for the hunter guy and I can’t tell if he’s a good guy or a bad guy or a lion or a vulture and I can’t seem to care.
But I don’t see it as being a long term thing, so maybe now I’m the bad guy.
[/quote]
So he kills stuff.
Did he caress your body with his bloody hands?
And yeah, you are the bad guy, he will be crushed if you are just in it for the crazy sex.
[/quote]
Haha, no, his hands are very clean. As are his house and car and the dog he hunts with. Hunting is morally neutral for me as long as the game is eaten, but I’m not interested in taking part in the process.
He can build houses and fix cars. There’s all sorts of sexy there, though I have no particular need for either skill. Still, though. Plus I like the way he smells and I really, really like his body.
I was worried after the last guy (the smart guy) that I would never be attracted to anyone the way I was to my ex-boyfriend. I’m relieved to find that there are others. Incredibly relieved.
I’m a little worried about being a bad guy, but on the other hand we’re not talking about commitment or exclusivity at this point. Besides, maybe he has a half dozen other women on the line. Who knows? He could be a vulture.
[/quote]
He is noz even a vulture, he will never circle over leftovers.
Classical bad boy, gets sexed alot.
Of course he lights your fire, and every other womans in a 50 mile radius. [/quote]
What? Four posts ago the consensus was that he was too nice and never going to get a woman!
And right now I’m eating the leftover chicken noodle soup he made and sent me home with. How bad boy is that??
Although maybe he is and my heart will be broken. We’ll see.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I don’t know what to say about any of this because I’ve fallen into total lust for the hunter guy and I can’t tell if he’s a good guy or a bad guy or a lion or a vulture and I can’t seem to care.
But I don’t see it as being a long term thing, so maybe now I’m the bad guy.
[/quote]
So he kills stuff.
Did he caress your body with his bloody hands?
And yeah, you are the bad guy, he will be crushed if you are just in it for the crazy sex.
[/quote]
Haha, no, his hands are very clean. As are his house and car and the dog he hunts with. Hunting is morally neutral for me as long as the game is eaten, but I’m not interested in taking part in the process.
He can build houses and fix cars. There’s all sorts of sexy there, though I have no particular need for either skill. Still, though. Plus I like the way he smells and I really, really like his body.
I was worried after the last guy (the smart guy) that I would never be attracted to anyone the way I was to my ex-boyfriend. I’m relieved to find that there are others. Incredibly relieved.
I’m a little worried about being a bad guy, but on the other hand we’re not talking about commitment or exclusivity at this point. Besides, maybe he has a half dozen other women on the line. Who knows? He could be a vulture.
[/quote]
He is noz even a vulture, he will never circle over leftovers.
Classical bad boy, gets sexed alot.
Of course he lights your fire, and every other womans in a 50 mile radius. [/quote]
What? Four posts ago the consensus was that he was too nice and never going to get a woman!
And right now I’m eating the leftover chicken noodle soup he made and sent me home with. How bad boy is that??
Although maybe he is and my heart will be broken. We’ll see.[/quote]
Evaluation changes with incoming data.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I don’t know what to say about any of this because I’ve fallen into total lust for the hunter guy and I can’t tell if he’s a good guy or a bad guy or a lion or a vulture and I can’t seem to care.
But I don’t see it as being a long term thing, so maybe now I’m the bad guy.
[/quote]
So he kills stuff.
Did he caress your body with his bloody hands?
And yeah, you are the bad guy, he will be crushed if you are just in it for the crazy sex.
[/quote]
Haha, no, his hands are very clean. As are his house and car and the dog he hunts with. Hunting is morally neutral for me as long as the game is eaten, but I’m not interested in taking part in the process.
He can build houses and fix cars. There’s all sorts of sexy there, though I have no particular need for either skill. Still, though. Plus I like the way he smells and I really, really like his body.
I was worried after the last guy (the smart guy) that I would never be attracted to anyone the way I was to my ex-boyfriend. I’m relieved to find that there are others. Incredibly relieved.
I’m a little worried about being a bad guy, but on the other hand we’re not talking about commitment or exclusivity at this point. Besides, maybe he has a half dozen other women on the line. Who knows? He could be a vulture.
[/quote]
He is noz even a vulture, he will never circle over leftovers.
Classical bad boy, gets sexed alot.
Of course he lights your fire, and every other womans in a 50 mile radius. [/quote]
What? Four posts ago the consensus was that he was too nice and never going to get a woman!
And right now I’m eating the leftover chicken noodle soup he made and sent me home with. How bad boy is that??
Although maybe he is and my heart will be broken. We’ll see.[/quote]
Evaluation changes with incoming data.
[/quote]
Well, if he is lighting the fire of every other woman in a 50 mile radius he’s got a long night ahead of him calling them all to say goodnight, as he did me. Anyway, I’d just pressed post, so while it was on my mind I asked him if he’s a player and he said no. Then he asked me if I’m one and there was an awkward pause while I thought about whether I am or not.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I don’t know what to say about any of this because I’ve fallen into total lust for the hunter guy and I can’t tell if he’s a good guy or a bad guy or a lion or a vulture and I can’t seem to care.
But I don’t see it as being a long term thing, so maybe now I’m the bad guy.
[/quote]
Wow.
Kinda mercurial, are we not?[/quote]
We don’t MEAN to be.
He just started seeming really sexy all of a sudden.
[quote]csulli wrote:
Well when this thread hits page 46 you should make a new one called “Em’s Place” or something. It’s like a lounge where people can come sit on divans and drink white wine and bitch about stuff.[/quote]
If you switch “bitch about stuff” for “process our feelings” you have my dream lesbian party.
Local artisan cheese, anyone?
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
Well when this thread hits page 46 you should make a new one called “Em’s Place” or something. It’s like a lounge where people can come sit on divans and drink white wine and bitch about stuff.[/quote]
If you switch “bitch about stuff” for “process our feelings” you have my dream lesbian party.
Local artisan cheese, anyone?[/quote]
Sorry, process our feelings what I meant 
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I don’t know what to say about any of this because I’ve fallen into total lust for the hunter guy and I can’t tell if he’s a good guy or a bad guy or a lion or a vulture and I can’t seem to care.
But I don’t see it as being a long term thing, so maybe now I’m the bad guy.
[/quote]
Wow.
Kinda mercurial, are we not?[/quote]
We don’t MEAN to be.
He just started seeming really sexy all of a sudden. [/quote]
Ovulating, are we?[/quote]
OMG. Maybe. ~blink~
Edit: but I went through a couple of ovulation cycles with the last guy and he never seemed suddenly sexy.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
[quote]nephorm wrote:
It is perfectly possible for a “good” guy to have learned that coming on too strong is counterproductive. [/quote]
This.
It’s like that Six Harsh Truths article, being a “good guy” just isn’t enough. Look at “dating advice” thread - OP’s a good catch (young, in shape, has a good job), but he still has trouble with women. If he does some reading up on interacting with the fairer sex, and learns some of the rules to the game, he’ll start having more success with women. (For the record, I always thought the PUA/“game” idea was douchey and stupid, mainly because I thought being a ‘good guy’ was enough. It was only when I started reading some of the books that AngryChicken recommended in order to help succeed with women that I actually started having success with women. Those books have not changed the fact that I still consider myself a ‘good guy’, I’m just a good guy who has a better grasp on how to attract women.)
It just boiled down to the fact that I finally accepted that there’s a difference between how things should be and how things actually are. Being a good guy should be good enough, but in reality, it’s not.
I’d probably even argue that there are a decent amount of ‘good guys’ out there who don’t take the right steps to attract and keep a women and end up driving her away if he even speaks to her in the first place. (It sounds like Em’s new interest might be a ‘good guy’, but calling Em at 7 in the morning simply isn’t a good move if he’s trying to attract her. She even said so herself.)
I don’t necessarily think playing by certain ‘rules’ to attract the opposite sex and being a good guy are mutually exclusive. It’s just like anything else in life, if you want a certain outcome, take the necessary steps to get the desired outcome.
Just don’t become jaded about women like Orion. :P[/quote]
What do you do differently now?[/quote]
Tons of things. Far too many to list, but some examples that are specific to attracting women would be things like:
Not being available all the time. The old me would have put off stuff like homework or other important stuff if it meant hanging out with a chick I liked. The “new me” (that sounds so lame, lol) has no problem whatsoever making a girl wait until I’m actually free to hang out with me. Basically, just realizing that pretty girls always have guys waiting at their beck and call and that not being one of those guys who’s willing to bend over backwards for her already puts you ahead of the others.
The old me thought it was ‘good enough’ to be my decent looking self wearing hangout clothes. The new me knows actually putting a little bit of effort into how I look will give me that much more success.
The old me used to spend money on drinks for girls I’d never end up sleeping with. New me gets girls to buy me a drink every once in a while.
The old me would have backtracked on something I said if it offended/annoyed a chick. Now I just stand by what I said and don’t give much of a thought about it past that.
More “pua” sorta stuff would be like displaying status. The other week I was having a sunday funday with this girl I was seeing and while we were walking from one bar to another, I noticed some [female] friends that I know from the gym that I go to on the patio bar. So, I grabbed Michelle’s hand (the smokin’ hot Asian girl I was hanging out with) and brought her over to introduce her to my friends real quick. Sure, I could have walked right on by with Michelle, but I made it a point to take two minutes to be seen hanging out with a hot chick. A, I gained social status from my female gym friends simply by being seen hanging out with a hot chick and B, I gained social status from Michelle by displaying the fact that I’m friends with a group of in shape, hot women.
The old me would have texted a girl to ask “when are you free next?” The new me will ask “Are you free X day at X time?” and have a plan if she is.
A lot of it has more to do with improving myself than it does worrying about women, though.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
Just don’t become jaded about women like Orion. :P[/quote]
You do not become jaded because they reject you and you cant get laid.
You become jaded because you get laid and you know exactly why. [/quote]
I know plenty of jaded guys who are jaded because of the fact that they can’t get laid.
You did, however, almost ruin women for me a few months back. On some thread, you mentioned something to the effect of “If I judge a woman by the same standard I judge a man by, his word, then yes woman are inferior to men.” (Again, something similar, I can’t remember your exact phrasing.)
That was a realization for me and it annoyed the FUCK out of me that it’s true. I got over it, though, and have just come to realize that, sure, women should say what they mean and mean what they say… but they don’t. So I can either be jaded about the fact that women don’t communicate the way I want them to, or I can realize this, take it for what it’s worth, and use it to my advantage.
It cracks me up that you’re jaded about women because you’ve figured them out. So if you do X, Y, and Z every time to a woman, it gets you laid. Would you be jaded if you figured out that all you had to do to any dog was A, B, C to get it to behave in the manner you wanted? What if you figured out all you had to do was D, E, then F to get someone of an opposing viewpoint to come over to your side of the argument? What if you all you had to do is combine ingredient B, but not C, D, G, K, Y and a dash of Q in order to win the best chili in Austria award? Would you be jaded about that, too?
Figuring out a system to get what you want doesn’t seem like the recipe for being jaded, but that’s just me.
[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
You did, however, almost ruin women for me a few months back. On some thread, you mentioned something to the effect of “If I judge a woman by the same standard I judge a man by, his word, then yes woman are inferior to men.” (Again, something similar, I can’t remember your exact phrasing.)
That was a realization for me and it annoyed the FUCK out of me that it’s true. I got over it, though, and have just come to realize that, sure, women should say what they mean and mean what they say… but they don’t. So I can either be jaded about the fact that women don’t communicate the way I want them to, or I can realize this, take it for what it’s worth, and use it to my advantage.
[/quote]
Can you give examples of what you’re talking about? Is the dishonesty context-specific? Are you even talking about full-blown dishonesty, or are you talking about a lack of directness? I’m curious.
I can’t pursue women yet. I’m still dealing with my post-manosphere depression lol
[quote]Kakarat wrote:
I can’t pursue women yet. I’m still dealing with my post-manosphere depression lol[/quote]
Since this thread is just going any which direction, I’ll post this article I saw today, in spite of its age: Why women lose the dating game
I don’t know if this is representative of the “manosphere” or not, but it is amazingly incoherent. I’m supposed to be shocked that an unmarried, tall, well-educated, highly-paid, and good-looking guy has women in their 30s “throwing themselves” at him? How does this evidence support the claim that the tables have turned for men in their 30s? If anything, it sounds as if these highly-successful women are willing to forego families altogether if they aren’t able to snag the alpha males they believe they’re entitled to.
Anecdotally, looking through profiles of women on OKCupid, I was shocked at some of the requirements women who were in their late 20s and early 30s felt were perfectly reasonable. Obviously chubby women indicating, for instance, that they would not accept potential partners who were at all overweight. Requiring that men live in the city, because they didn’t want to have to wait for someone to drive to meet them. Just to mention a couple.
[quote]nephorm wrote:
[quote]Kakarat wrote:
I can’t pursue women yet. I’m still dealing with my post-manosphere depression lol[/quote]
Since this thread is just going any which direction, I’ll post this article I saw today, in spite of its age: Why women lose the dating game
I don’t know if this is representative of the “manosphere” or not, but it is amazingly incoherent. I’m supposed to be shocked that an unmarried, tall, well-educated, highly-paid, and good-looking guy has women in their 30s “throwing themselves” at him? How does this evidence support the claim that the tables have turned for men in their 30s? If anything, it sounds as if these highly-successful women are willing to forego families altogether if they aren’t able to snag the alpha males they believe they’re entitled to.
Anecdotally, looking through profiles of women on OKCupid, I was shocked at some of the requirements women who were in their late 20s and early 30s felt were perfectly reasonable. Obviously chubby women indicating, for instance, that they would not accept potential partners who were at all overweight. Requiring that men live in the city, because they didn’t want to have to wait for someone to drive to meet them. Just to mention a couple.[/quote]
The things mentioned in your first paragraph are not mutually exclusive. I think successful men in their 30s have a wide range of choices, and I think women who are successful have no motivation to accept anything less than what they want in a partner. Sex is easy to obtain. I think a successful male looking to settle down is looking for a woman who will focus on him and nurture and caretake the home and family. Successful women know that’s not likely to happen for them, and it’s weird when it does, anyway.
I remember one of my (gay male) social work professors telling us we’d all marry doctors. That’s not far off. My career is easily made secondary to someone else’s, and my nature matches it. Not so some of my friends, who are used to command roles. Are they cooking and cleaning for someone they can as easily live without? However, I do think the decline in available men for first marriages catches many successful women by surprise.
As for your second paragraph, I think men do the same thing, don’t they? “Overweight, self-centered slob seeks young, hot woman for ego boost and substandard sex.”