Which do you feel is more effective for improvements (strength, size) in the medial deltoid:
Lateral Raises or similar isolation exercises.
Military press or similar compound exercises.
Thanks for any comments…
I think there is no question that the basic principle of sticking to compound movements applies here. I never really got much improvement in my deltoids untill I started using a lot of military presses.
They simply allow you to use more weight as well as placing stress on the whole shoulder,upper back,upper chest,and triceps. I now consider military presses an essential exercise for upper body mass and strength development.
I also like upright rows a lot.
Crowbar
Just do your pushing and pulling compounds and you’ll be alright. The compound exrcises do hit the medial deltoids hard enough. Lateral raises are a waste of time.
I’ve read that overhead presses with a shrug bar (trap bar) hits the outer delt with authority.
The advice was to lower the bar lower than you do with a regular straight bar: the shrug bar is uniquely suited for this.
Trap_builder,
last year I tried “Shoulders Overhaul” by C.Thibadeau. A wonderful specialization program for deltoids. The best T-Nation specialization program of year 2004.
Have a good time !
Luca
About the military press, what type of grip favors work in the medial deltoids?
THanks for the replies.
Use the compounds as the staple of your shoulder development and the isolation stuff as exercises you incorporte into your program. The compounds will bring up the anterior, posterior and middle heads best. (Actually, the middle head should be called the MIDDLE deltoid, not the medial. Medial means closest to the midline of the body. And if you think about it, the anterior and posterior heads are actually closer to the midline of the body than the middle deltoid…if anyone cares)
GL,
Danny
[quote]trap_builder wrote:
Which do you feel is more effective for improvements (strength, size) in the medial deltoid:
Lateral Raises or similar isolation exercises.
Military press or similar compound exercises.
Thanks for any comments…[/quote]
I don’t think flat presses and pulls hit the shoulder directly enough for serious growth. That’s all I did in HS/college and had weak-ass delts. As soon as I began hitting barbell military they grew like weeds. But, even better are dumbbell shoulder press! I saw incredible jumps in size and strength with the DB’s. They are obviously more unstable than the barbell, thus not for power work. However, I fould I could hit the 80-90’s for 6-8 reps, where I could not manage that weight for those reps with the bar. Maybe that’s just my body, but I would incorporate both. Just be sure to put them first in the training week/session if they are a weak spot.
TopSirloin
THanks for your opinions. It seems most people favor compound exercises.
I would like to know how the grip in the barbell military press affects the heads of the deltoids that are worked.
FOr example, maybe a closer hands grip favors the MIDDLE deltoids, while a wider than shoulder grip favors the anterior deltoids.
I agree with crowbar524, standing military presses and upright rows work for me. I like a slightly wider than shoulder width grip on the presses, seem to feel it more in the delts that way.
One of the best middle delt burners I have ever done was directly from Christian Thibaudeau’s Shoulder’s Overhaul.
It was the Snatch Grip Behind The Neck Press. Doing these placed a serious burn in my middle delts, where the old-style military presses definitely made the front of my delts burn.
I highly recommend them, but you have to be careful doing them. Don’t start off too heavy, because the snatch grip won’t allow you to handle the heaviest of weights.
I believe that CT recommends that if you can’t accomplish this exercise with a bar, you can always try the W press with DB’s. Haven’t done them yet, but I hear they burn just as bad.
Well, standing overhead presses do work wonders for the whole upper body. I like the one arm barbell snatch. Not only is it one of the funnest exercises you can do IMO, supporting the bar overhead really taxes the middle deltoid. If you try these expect serious soreness in the mid delt.
[quote]Dboy wrote:
Actually, the middle head should be called the MIDDLE deltoid, not the medial. Medial means closest to the midline of the body. And if you think about it, the anterior and posterior heads are actually closer to the midline of the body than the middle deltoid…if anyone cares.
Danny[/quote]
Well done, Danny; we’re you pick up that tidbit;)
As everyone else has said, compound exercises (military press, bent press, side press, etc.) will lead to the most mass gains. However, you will want to use isolation exercises at different times just for variety. For the “middle” delt, I like doing incline side raise, cable side raise, lean away laterals, and heavy cheat side raise with a controlled negative.
Would lateral raises be a waste of time if someone had big anterior/post delts but little medial delt?
I am wondering about doing reverse flies with elbows “down” (to the rear) since this works both the posterior and medial fibers and would be a nice move to balance out anterior delt prominance.
What is W press? how does one do them?
Also which one is better for mass push press vs military press?
in my own experience,
(most incline&decline) bench presses stressed up very nicely front deltoids and dbs/bb rows-tbar the back delt.
so I add just a RP/stripping set of dbs lateral rises (two times per week; one heavy 4/6reps, the other with higher reps range 10/12) and my delts grows up nicely.
every couple months (as i have to touch with hands like S. Thomas…) I do an all-out set of bb military press and found always an improvement in weight a/o reps.
I think this is the body of evidence about front delts no direct training :
how is possible that I improve the MP wihout doing it?
bench press,simply…
and , yes! in the past I did MP for shoulders but after two or 3 weeks of training I found :
1/my bench and MP went down in poundage because front delts were overstressed (2 times per week benching,2 times per week MP; font delt worked 4 (four) times per week, a little bit more I think)
2/shoulder joints pain (both in BP than in MP, my bench form is quite good; feet under the bench,slight arc,blades very in,stop at chest etc etc); very probably rotator cuffs was overstressed by the fact that front delts was way too strong respect to rear delts but I did back raises for my rears…).
so, probably it’s just me, but front delts are like forearms (in terms of indirect training); if you do heavy rows,pulldownz, deads your forearms are fried way before lats.
hope it helps
Mikael from Italy
[quote]tyciol wrote:
Would lateral raises be a waste of time if someone had big anterior/post delts but little medial delt?[/quote]
No. One can never do too many lateral raises.
[quote]minsarale wrote:
Also which one is better for mass push press vs military press?[/quote]
Look at it this way: Have you ever seen a “small” guy with a big push press? You probably have. But have you ever seen a small guy with a big military press?
I do both. There’s some carryover lockout/confidence wise.
The guys that I know who have big medial delts mostly do military presses (to some capacity) and then flyes as well. It shouldn’t be a “this OR that,” in my opinion.
I started using this mentality and my delts have subsequently seen very nice growth.
I like going heavy on side laterals, rest paused. Nothing else has made my lateral delts grow more. I might do 28kg for 10+5+3 and finish with partials to failure. I try and progress on them like I would on any other lift.
If you have trouble feeling the lateral delts, try side laterals lying on an incline or side laterals from a dead stop on a bench. Jay Cutler style cable raises are also great as a finisher.