[quote]rainjack wrote:
There is no such thing as humanely raised beef. FYI - they all get knocked in the head sooner or later.[/quote]
But the death is one day of their lives. How about the rest of it? How many hours of torture?
Choose humanely raised animal products, minimize torture, maximize health.
Why in the world would anyone argue against that? Are your interests served by factory farming?
[quote]
You guys need to visit a farm, and quit swallowing the PETA drivel. [/quote]
How about visiting a slaughterhouse?
After I had to have one of my dogs put down I couldn’t eat meat for a long time. Just looking at it turned me off.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
You guys need to visit a farm, and quit swallowing the PETA drivel.
How about visiting a slaughterhouse?
After I had to have one of my dogs put down I couldn’t eat meat for a long time. Just looking at it turned me off.
[/quote]
I have. In fact in getting my B.S. I had to slaughter a steer for a grade.
I have no fucking clue where you took your dog - but I can pretty much guarantee you he wasn’t killed in a USDA inspected slaughter facility.
Besides - the animals are dead within five minutes of entering the kill floor.
What in the hell does your dog have to do with this?
[quote]Supraman wrote:
rainjack wrote:
There is no such thing as humanely raised beef. FYI - they all get knocked in the head sooner or later.
But the death is one day of their lives. How about the rest of it? How many hours of torture?
Choose humanely raised animal products, minimize torture, maximize health.
Why in the world would anyone argue against that? Are your interests served by factory farming?[/quote]
No - my interests are not “served by factory farming”.
Are yours served by spreading lies?
You know nothing about this except that which you are told. That is the problem. Ignorance. Your ignorance.
Please list this so called inhumane treatment. I need a good laugh.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Supraman wrote:
rainjack wrote:
There is no such thing as humanely raised beef. FYI - they all get knocked in the head sooner or later.
But the death is one day of their lives. How about the rest of it? How many hours of torture?
Choose humanely raised animal products, minimize torture, maximize health.
Why in the world would anyone argue against that? Are your interests served by factory farming?
No - my interests are not “served by factory farming”.
Are yours served by spreading lies?
You know nothing about this except that which you are told. That is the problem. Ignorance. Your ignorance.
Please list this so called inhumane treatment. I need a good laugh.
[/quote]
I’d say that video illustrated inhumane treatment pretty well.
[quote]jit07 wrote:
I’d say that video illustrated inhumane treatment pretty well.
[/quote]
I asked you to list inhumane treatment. I don’t watch propaganda.
You prove my point that you know nothing beyond what you have been told.
I would dare say that livestock producers are far more humane in the treatment of their cattle than PETA is of the cats they “rescue”.
Seriously - tell me what you consider inhumane treatment is.
Stress is the worst thing an owner can impose on an animal. You seem to think that livestock producers wake up every morning trying to think of ways to mistreat their source of income. You could not be further from the truth.
Now…about that list I asked for…
I think thats just a poor excuse for not consuming meat. If people become vegans because they don’t like how the animals are treated/abused, then switch to free-range/organic meat.
I know a vegetarian who is a great friend of mine, but he never forces his opinions down my throat, nor do I do the same to him. I enjoy my locally finished organic beef, and it tastes great. They say meat is bad for you, but worrying that much about meat and animals dying isn’t? They probably give themselves heart attacks every other week, on average, just going on about meat and animals being abused for self-gratification.
Well I caved in and watched the cattle segment.
There is not a shred of truth to anything they said.
Not one shred.
Funny thing - you are railing against factory farms, and they use video from a family farmer with really crappy equipment. The only reason the steer flipped in the chute was because it was a shitty chute.
The remarks about the slaughter are outright lies. All cattle are knocked in the head with a 22 caliber impact hammer, and are knocked unconscious before their throats are slit. I know this because I have done it.
The only time they are slaughtered in the manner described in the propaganda piece is at Kosher facilities.
Once again - what is your idea of inhumane treatment?
The sorry fact is that very few of us have killed and butchered our own meat. Most people walking around in the U.S. live with the luxury of not having to deal with bloody reality. We live in a post-industrial society where the meat we eat could be grown in vats for all we know, so seeing cold, harsh reality is shocking to most.
Yes, there is room for improvement in U.S. meat processing, for instance we use water cooling instead of air cooling for chicken which facilitates the spread of bacteria, but makes the meat weigh a little more. We are, in fact, omnivores whose diet has been best served by some consumption of meat. Meat comes from animals. You generally have to kill them to get them to part with their meat. Being killed is not fun. Watching videos of animals being killed is not (should not) be fun. Deal with it, just as our ancestors did for us to be here.
Otherwise, take your multitude of ultra processed supplements to allow you to survive on your holier than thou vegan diet and realize that you can only do this because of the advanced technologies produced by generations of MEAT eaters.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Once again - what is your idea of inhumane treatment? [/quote]
Debeaked chickens crammed in cages, where they can’t even spread their wings.
Sows, animals as smart as dogs, who can’t turn around in their pens suffering chronic stress.
Feeding grain to cattle who are grass eaters. Even worse, feeding them blood and bone meal who are herbivores.
Who’s the propagandist anyways, slaughter-boy? You must be getting your degree in “self-denial”.
Uh… I eat 2 pounds of meat a day, either raised on family farms or caught in the wild.
Insulting yourself (illiterate and irrelevant) doesn’t change that, nor does it change the fact that better options are available.
Try the health food store, and if you can’t find non-factory animal products there, then go to a co-op or to the farmer.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
I’m going to hit my girlfriends vegan-activist/doughy and desperate little friend with one of these.
She allways has to say something stupid when I eat meat around her. My usualy response is “Watch it motormouth, or you’re next!”
[/quote]
“Watch it motormouth, or you’re next!”
Best comment yet!
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Well I caved in and watched the cattle segment.
There is not a shred of truth to anything they said.
Not one shred.
Funny thing - you are railing against factory farms, and they use video from a family farmer with really crappy equipment. The only reason the steer flipped in the chute was because it was a shitty chute.
The remarks about the slaughter are outright lies. All cattle are knocked in the head with a 22 caliber impact hammer, and are knocked unconscious before their throats are slit. I know this because I have done it.
The only time they are slaughtered in the manner described in the propaganda piece is at Kosher facilities.
Once again - what is your idea of inhumane treatment? [/quote]
I dont feel as bad anymore
[quote]Supraman wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Once again - what is your idea of inhumane treatment?
Debeaked chickens crammed in cages, where they can’t even spread their wings.[/quote]
You eat eggs. right? You believe the family farmer wakes up every morning and takes his wicker basket out to the green green field behind his house and goes on an easter egg hunt on a daily basis?
I hate chickens, and the entire poultry industry - but I do know that the real truth is somewhere between your fairy tale image, and what PETA decided to show.
I am curious to know how PETA knows debeaking is so horrifically painful.
Care to tell me what country that particular scene was shot in?
Once again - PETA (Let’s just call cat killers) are experts in the field of porcine stress levels?
You know why those smart, smart swine are kept in those crates? Do you know what those crates are called? Probably not.
Those are called farrowing crates. Do you know what farrowing means? Probably not.
I’ll give you the idiot version: They are placed in those crates when it time for the sow (mama pig) to give birth. Why? Because the noble, uber intelligent mama pig has a tendency to roll over and crush her new babies.
They are put in the crates to protect the safety of the baby pigs. Every hog operation does this - even the little family farms.
Now you show your stupidity. Now you are in my field of expertise. Now, I am about to take you to school.
Place a pile of flaked corn, or cotton seed cake next to a pile of lush green grass. Bring in a steer, heifer, cow, or bull of your choice.
Guess which pile of feed will get eaten first every single time. No - it won’t be the lush green grass. It will be the grain.
What? Yes that is correct - the bovine will choose the higher nutrient food every time. It’s called nutritional wisdom - and cattle have it.
What is this self-imposed cruelty?
I have my own issues with the cattle feeding industry, but you and the cat killers have no fucking clue what you are talking about. Feeding cattle grain is as old as time itself. Why? Because the cows love it, and it is far more efficient than feeding them dried grass.
You are being completely duped by a marketing scheme. If you think your family farmer doesn’t feed grain, or supplement the grass he supposedly feeds with protein (usually from cotton seed meal, or soy bean meal) - you are are delusional.
You are buying a marketing scheme designed to take advantage of your own stupidity. If the farmer is raising cattle in such quantities as to make a living from it - he is implanting, feeding grains, and injecting his cattle with viruses. He has to be, or he would have pens full of dead, diseased beef.
As a matter of fact, my degree is in Animal Health Management.
Unlike you - I have actually worked in this field for more than just a couple of weeks.
Unlike you - I have first hand experience that debunks the lies told by the cat killers.
Unlike you - I know why your “family farmer” is lying to you as badly as the cat killers. I’ll give you a hint: It’s green, and the more of it you have, the more shit you can buy.
And you get your information from Cat Killers, and health food store employees.
In all honesty, that’s worse than asking for computer help from the idiots at Best Buy.
How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat?
I don’t get it, why are you calling them cat killers? You got a link? On a side note why don’t you tell them how humane raised pork can have what we call trichonella, how grass fed beef can get coccidiosis, and how the unnatural and evil antibiotics cure these diseases.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Supraman wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Once again - what is your idea of inhumane treatment?
Debeaked chickens crammed in cages, where they can’t even spread their wings.
You eat eggs. right? You believe the family farmer wakes up every morning and takes his wicker basket out to the green green field behind his house and goes on an easter egg hunt on a daily basis?
I hate chickens, and the entire poultry industry - but I do know that the real truth is somewhere between your fairy tale image, and what PETA decided to show.
I am curious to know how PETA knows debeaking is so horrifically painful.
Care to tell me what country that particular scene was shot in?
Sows, animals as smart as dogs, who can’t turn around in their pens suffering chronic stress.
Once again - PETA (Let’s just call cat killers) are experts in the field of porcine stress levels?
You know why those smart, smart swine are kept in those crates? Do you know what those crates are called? Probably not.
Those are called farrowing crates. Do you know what farrowing means? Probably not.
I’ll give you the idiot version: They are placed in those crates when it time for the sow (mama pig) to give birth. Why? Because the noble, uber intelligent mama pig has a tendency to roll over and crush her new babies.
They are put in the crates to protect the safety of the baby pigs. Every hog operation does this - even the little family farms.
Feeding grain to cattle who are grass eaters. Even worse, feeding them blood and bone meal who are herbivores.
Now you show your stupidity. Now you are in my field of expertise. Now, I am about to take you to school.
Place a pile of flaked corn, or cotton seed cake next to a pile of lush green grass. Bring in a steer, heifer, cow, or bull of your choice.
Guess which pile of feed will get eaten first every single time. No - it won’t be the lush green grass. It will be the grain.
What? Yes that is correct - the bovine will choose the higher nutrient food every time. It’s called nutritional wisdom - and cattle have it.
What is this self-imposed cruelty?
I have my own issues with the cattle feeding industry, but you and the cat killers have no fucking clue what you are talking about. Feeding cattle grain is as old as time itself. Why? Because the cows love it, and it is far more efficient than feeding them dried grass.
You are being completely duped by a marketing scheme. If you think your family farmer doesn’t feed grain, or supplement the grass he supposedly feeds with protein (usually from cotton seed meal, or soy bean meal) - you are are delusional.
You are buying a marketing scheme designed to take advantage of your own stupidity. If the farmer is raising cattle in such quantities as to make a living from it - he is implanting, feeding grains, and injecting his cattle with viruses. He has to be, or he would have pens full of dead, diseased beef.
Who’s the propagandist anyways, slaughter-boy? You must be getting your degree in “self-denial”.
As a matter of fact, my degree is in Animal Health Management.
Unlike you - I have actually worked in this field for more than just a couple of weeks.
Unlike you - I have first hand experience that debunks the lies told by the cat killers.
Unlike you - I know why your “family farmer” is lying to you as badly as the cat killers. I’ll give you a hint: It’s green, and the more of it you have, the more shit you can buy.
And you get your information from Cat Killers, and health food store employees.
In all honesty, that’s worse than asking for computer help from the idiots at Best Buy.
[/quote]
[quote]rainjack wrote:
You eat eggs. right? You believe the family farmer wakes up every morning and takes his wicker basket out to the green green field behind his house and goes on an easter egg hunt on a daily basis?
[/quote]
It’s called a hen house, cage-free, with access provided to pasture (weather permitting).
As opposed to life in a cage. One cage.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Those are called farrowing crates. Do you know what farrowing means? Probably not.[/quote]
You got me there, with the sows. But are these pigs farrowing? (see picture)
Most factory farm swine are raised indoors.
As opposed to pasture like on such a farm as this:
http://www.hurryburry.com/pigs.htm
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Place a pile of flaked corn, or cotton seed cake next to a pile of lush green grass. Bring in a steer, heifer, cow, or bull of your choice.
Guess which pile of feed will get eaten first every single time. No - it won’t be the lush green grass. It will be the grain.[/quote]
A pile of flaked corn or cotton seed cake? Just like in nature… Are you kidding me?
The only time a wild ruminant would come upon piles of corn would be in a field planted by humans. Not their natural diet.
And don’t even get me started on those cotton-picking cows… riiiight. Maybe that would make a good Far Side cartoon.
Ruminants eat greenery. It’s what they do. Stand in a field and chew cud. Not corn on the cob or edamame!
[quote]rainjack wrote:
I have my own issues with the cattle feeding industry[/quote]
Like the meat and bone meal issue that you totally glossed over? Cannibalistic herbivores. That is an abomination!
[quote]rainjack wrote:
If the farmer is raising cattle in such quantities as to make a living from it - he is implanting, feeding grains, and injecting his cattle with viruses. He has to be, or he would have pens full of dead, diseased beef.[/quote]
So you’re saying that people didn’t have successful agricultural operations before the advent of modern technological advances? Yeah, that would be bullshit.
Why are you so intent on keeping the baby in the dirty bathwater?
Is it because you’re being prepared to work for the factory farm interests?
You know, you can still go to work with sane agriculturalists. It’s not too late. They can benefit from your knowledge as well as can the dark side, and you will profit from helping them. Keep it as humane and healthy as possible for the animals, the farm workers, consumers and communities. Everyone benefits.
[quote]tveddy wrote:
I don’t get it, why are you calling them cat killers? You got a link? On a side note why don’t you tell them how humane raised pork can have what we call trichonella, how grass fed beef can get coccidiosis, and how the unnatural and evil antibiotics cure these diseases.
[/quote]