I am curious who among you takes active recovery seriously. I am one who had not been as diligent about it as I know I should be. Well, that about to change. I wrote a message on another thread regarding 2-a-day training about the active recovery means and methods I plan on incorporating into my own 2-a-day workout plan which includes the following (not all at once or all together) in my 8-week workout plan: (1) self massage (both hand and with a vibrating massager); (2) deep tissue/trigger point massage; (3) dry heat sauna; (4) wet sauna; (5) whirlpool jacuzzi bath; (6) contrast showers; (7) salt baths; (8) coniferous pine baths; (9) light interval training (75% max speed sprints a la Charlie Francis/Tudor Bompa); (10) light recovery workouts (using the empirical 60% method a la Zatsiorsky/WSB); and (11) use of heating rubs (i.e., Tiger Balm-type products). I don’t own a sled so no sled pulling for me. I also plan to take recovery nutrition very seriously including: (1) pre-workout MRP; (2) post-workout MRP; (3) pre- and post-workout consumption of .17 g/ kg (LBM) of BCAA’s (got this one from CP’s killer leg workout article); (4) use of adaptogens (i.e., siberian ginseng and mumie – Got this from Hatfield and some of Dr. Siff’s posts on his Supertraining group); and (5) consumption of extra vitamin E. So here is my question for those of you who take active recovery seriously or are well-read on the subject: how do you set up your active recovery? The whole point of the 2-a-days (five days per week for 2 weeks followed by 1-a-days 2 days per week for 2 weeks) is to purposely “overtrain” so that my body supercompensates during the subsequent period of reduced training. Do I increase my use of recovery methods during the period of overtraining and then back off during the period of undertraining? Do I decrease the means and methods of active recovery during the periods of overtraining and increase their use during the period of undertraining? Do I keep the levels constant during the 8-week period? Do I use lower levels of active recovery during the first 4-week and cycle and greater levels during the second or vice-versa? I would love to hear some thoughts on the subject. Coach Davies? Mr. Staley? Anyone?
I already know that I should not use any method more than twice per week, but how long should I use a method before I switch to something else (i.e., use salt baths for the first 4-weeks and substitute another general recovery method like contrast showers for the following 4 weeks)? Also, when do you suggest using specific versus general restorative techniques? When active recovery is at its maximum usage I had planned on using a general restorative technique in the a.m., a specific technique in between the afternoon and evening workouts and both a specific and general technique in the evening before going to bed after the evening workout – does this make sense or is there a better way to set up the timing of the means and methods? BTW, I just got done with a strength phase (I am testing my max on Wednesday) so this 8-week period is a hypertrophy phase if that makes a difference in your analysis. Thank you in advance for your help.
Matt - you mentioned a wide assortment of restorative measures, each with tremendous merit. I am not completely aware of your training, although I know you used some WSB, but not all, so it is difficult to discuss training points such as tempo runs and a lot depends upon your work capacity. I think you need to address your intake of BCAA and Glutamine to enhance your results. I will be pleased to discuss more.In faith, Coach Davies
Thank you for your response coach. My training over the next two months is primarily aimed at hypertrophy. Over the last 4 months, I trained for hypertrophy approximately 2.5 of those months and strength during the last 1.5 months. The last 4 weeks of the strength phase (ending tomorrow) was using the westside barbell system but without using any of the GPP training or active recovery techniques. My next 2 weeks of training (starting Friday) will consist of 5 days per week of 2-a-day training (Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Tuesday, Wednesday). Workout 1 (afternoon) will take place sometime between 1 p.m. and 3 p.m. and workout 2 (evening) will take place sometime between 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. (I read a Russian study that indicates that strength peaks during these time periods). I will use very high volume (18 sets per workout) and will use a relatively slow negative and an explosive concentric. I am attempting to purposely overtrain during these two weeks so that I will experience supercompensation during the following 2 weeks (where volume will be reduced from 36 sets per day 5 days per week to 10 sets per day twice per week). The afternoon workout will be heavier (8-10 reps) than the evening workout (12-15 reps). I will not take each exercise within about 1-2 reps of failure but will always leave something “in the tank” during the first two weeks. I will use primarily free weight multi-joint exercises when possible. However, I will use some machines and I will use some “isolation” exercises since my goal is hypertrophy. However, free-weights will always precede machines and multi-joint will always precede isolation. Here is a skeleton of my workout plan: WEEKS 1 & 2 – FRIDAY (Afternoon) 12 sets hamstring dominent work and 6 sets of calf work (Evening) 12 sets of quad dominent work and 6 sets of core training (abs and lower back); SATURDAY (Afternoon) 12 sets of upper and middle back work and 6 sets of bicep work (Evening) 12 sets of chest and shoulder work and 6 sets of tricep work; SUNDAY(Afternoon) 6 sets of ab work, 6 sets of lower back work, 6 sets of rotator cuff work (Evening) 12 sets of calf work and 6 sets of forearm/grip work; TUESDAY same as Friday except reverse afternoon and evening workouts; WEDNESDAY same as Saturday except reverse afternoon and evening workouts. Weeks 3 & 4 will be 2 workout days per week (fullbody workout) using 2 sets of 5 different exercises (6-8 rep range) taking each set to concentric failure. I plan to repeat this 4-week cycle twice before moving on to another 4 week westside barbell strength phase. I hope this is enough detail, if not please let me know and I will provide more.
Okay, I realise that “active recovery” isn’t as interesting a topic as what perfumes people use and how to talk to and steal women, but does anyone have any practical advice? If not, I will simply leave this subject alone and just have to learn through trial and error. I will report back on this subject in 8 weeks.
looks like we are the only ones on this - Outside of your training program - because I would make some changes. I think you need to focus on supplementation and elements such as contrasting showers/ice baths. I know you are in LA, how far from the ocean. I utilize the ocean a great deal for regeneration. I hope that helps a little. In faith, Coach Davies
Thanks for the response again coach. I live in West Hollywood and work in Century City so going to the beach on days other than the weekends is inconvenient (particularly since I have a professional job that requires long hours). I posted my active recovery program in Mel’s Supertraining site (which is how I assume you knew I was from L.A.), so perhaps you might be able to give it a look-see and critique when you get a chance. You mentioned that that you would make alterations to my training – what in particular (considering my goal is hypertrophy for the next 8 weeks)? Also, you mentioned supplements. What in particular did you have in mind? I could give you a list of what I am planning to take if that would help, or since this discussion doesn’t seem to be of interest to anyone else, perhaps I could contact you directly if you have time.
Matt and Coach,
Please continue the string. I following the WSB rountine and I am extremely interested in discussion. My recent GPP work has me doing a very light intensity circuit training on a universal machine while I am recoving from overtraining period. Prior to that my GPP work got to be to much volume and I quickly become overtrained. For example I was trying to complete 57-60% of my 1 rep bench max for two sets of 20 along with 150 band pushdowns with 6 sets of various medium to high intensity of upper back work. This was in addition to my regular 4 WSB workouts. More is not better but somehow I forgot that working 50 hours a week behind a desk does not give you the functional conditioning of a soviet weightlifter. Starting next week I am going to start to track my work capacity to make sure I am going up. As far as supplementation I do follow the same CP recommendation on BCAAs. I have done contrast showers and saunas. I was curious about the pine baths? Can you give more detail? How much extra vitamin e are you using? Ginseng- I have heard so much bad press on it- how does it affect recovery?
I think this a great string. Please continue.
Thanks!!
Matt , I am greatly interested in this topic as ell since my tring for the past 5 weeks and for the next 3 months will consit of high volume(24 sets) with varying rep ranges and intensities(working progressively to higher sets per exercise and higher weight)for example i was doing 4 sets by 8 -12 reps per sets(12 sets of three exercise per bp…2 bodyparts per workout) i’m now on 4 sets of 8-6 reps. will then work to 2 days of6 sets of four with 2 high rep sub maximal training in the week also. Then it will be 8 sets of 3 per exercise. I do not have access to alot of the methods you posted although they all seem very useful (i’m only 19).I’m basically using glutacene and surge to help with recovery.I also do some light jump rope work and 15 minutes of light cardio after working out along with stretching. I look forward to seeing this discussion furthered. Also, I’ve seen your periodization plan and it looks top notch. I’d be interested in hearing what supplements you intend to use and how everything works out for you…Best of luck …Mike
Surge has made the biggest difference for me as far as recovery goals, so I’d say to look to diet first, if you haven’t already. Ian King said something one time about taking cool showers after training to facilitate recovery. You need to cool down the body fast.
I too am greatly interested in this topic as I have recently begun Coach Davies Functional Training, but have a 7 month old son who doesn’t want me to sleep at night. I definitely could use some recovery help. Surge and contrast showers are currently in my arsenal. I used to have a client who was a massage thereapist and I got a deep tissue massage every Saturday morning, in trade for 2 training sessions per week. I miss that! In faith - Matt Slaymaker
Well I am glad there are others who are interested in active recovery. Since I have been asked to provide details, here is my supplementation schedule: Weeks 1-2 (1) multi-vitamin packs divided up throughout the day (2x on workout days); (2) 1/2 MRP, pre-workout; (3) 1 MRP, post-workout; (4) ZMA; (5) glucosomine/MSM; (6) ginseng; (7) vitamin E (post workout); (8) Androsol; (9) EFA’s; (10) Creatine; (11) power drive (pre-workout); (12) .17 grams/kg (LBM) BCAA’a pre and post-workout; (13) cortisol blocker post-workout. During week 3 I will add tribex and vitex to the stack. During week four I will cycle off of Androsol. Weeks 5-8 will be the same as weeks 1-4 except that I will add another adaptogen, mumie (sold under the name “Shilajit”, I believe) to the stack and start taking methoxy-7 for several weeks following coming off of androsol and that I will cycle off of creatine for about a month after completing the cycle. I will eat lots of high quality foods and make sure to consume at least 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. I am not currently using creatine (and have not used it for the last 5 weeks). My experience is that creatine is worth about 3 lbs to me. I am hoping that (not including the creatine-induced weight gain) I can keep between 8-12 lbs of LBM (to be measure after a month of flushing creatine from my system and after being off of androsol for 6 weeks). I know that coach Davies has mentioned glutamine supplementation – any more specific suggestions to compliment the active recovery plan or changes to the active recovery plan which people think will be more effective?
Also, for those of you who have not seen it, I posted my 2-week active recovery plan in a message on Mel Siff's supertraining group. Here is the overview: General restoration the morning after a training day (cycling the following: contrast shower, dry heat sauna, and light interval runs followed by full-body stretching), specific restoration (self applied hand and/or vibrating massage) immediately following each workout (massaging the muscles used in that workout for 15 minutes) and general restoration in the evening (cycling jacuzzi, salt baths, contrast showers and professional massages). No general method of recovery is used more than twice per week. I have also got some good ideas re active recovery from Leo Costa's Serious Growth training system that I purchased something like 10 years ago.
BTW, for those who are interested, my general plan right now is to work in 12 week mesocycles. The first 8 weeks are primarily for hypertrophy and the final 4 weeks is for strength and power. I will perform two such mesocycles then alter my priorities to make only the fist 4 weeks a hypertrophy phase followed by 8 weeks of strength training. After 3-4 such mesocycles I will change my training again. Only the first 3 weeks will be hypertrophy, followed by 6 weeks of strength training, followed by 3 weeks of power training (i.e., Olympic lifting and powermetrics). I plan to use active recovery techniques and GPP training throughout my training.
Although there are not many posts this is proving a very interesting thread, as I have become quite interested in recovery lately. After reveiwing your regimin I would recoment stretching, both before and after your workouts. Besides the fact that Charlie Francis that streatching after a workout can reduce your recovery by 4 hours, stretching before a workout (highly recomended by Ian King) I think does wonders for your recovery. Although most of my workout partners are bored to death when I take over 30 min to stretch and warm up then another 15-20 min after my workout to stretch the payoff is more that worth it. One note though, make sure you warm up before you stretch. Although this sounds kind of repetative, stretching cold muscles is (to my body) almost as bad as training without warming up. I like to row for about 5min then ride a bike for about 5min then stretch, then go into the weight room and do some warm up sets. Besides that, I’m not sure what your “contrast showers” include, but you can try icing. There was an article in IronMan mag, a while back that talked about icing a muscle after a workout to help remove calcium (which is used in a muscular contraction to make that contraction end), thus by then end of a stenious workout excess calcium is built up and they listed icing as a way to help remove it. Past that this post is getting way long, so I’ll list some other stuff if you’d still be interested. Ask if you have any questions. Best of luck.
I would love to look at the icing article. The contrast showers involve something like 30 seconds of hot shower followed by 1 minute of cold shower repeated something like 5-10 times. I am not sure if this accomplishes the same thing as icing, but I would imagine that icing is more of local restorative method rather than a general method. I would love to hear additional recovery methods however. I have to disagree with you about pre-workout stretching. I think this is a mistake that will make you weaker during the workout as well as increasing the likelihood of injury. I agree that post workout stretching is a good idea, however. Although I only plan to stretch the muscles used in the workout and not necessarily use a general full-body stretch.
I probably would condense those sessions and utilize evening work as GPP, typically of the weighted kind. Within your supplementation, I think I might be slightly confused - are you saying you’re taking .17 grams (per KG LBM) before AND after each training session. With 4 dosages per training day that could be extraordinary high numbers and rather difficult to maintain from a compliance setting. I use slighly higher that twice the dosage for Glutamine. I generally space BCAA’s and Glutamine evenly through all days (and not just training days). Please clarify those numbers for me and I will get back. In faith, Coach Davies
I recommend doing all that one can to fortify the immune system prior to ramping up one’s training efforts.Nothing sucks more than getting all fired up,then overpowering your immune system with all the training and getting sick.In addition to BCAA’S,Glutamine,adequate protein and calories,antioxidants, etc,I would highly recommend Echinacea,it is a very potent immune booster,just make sure you get the right stuff.I know the Vogel tincture(liquid extract) is sold in the US,(for Aussies,Vogel,Microgenics Liquid and Blackmores liquid Echinaceas are all good).Quality Echinacea gives a tingling sensation when you drop it on your tongue.
Hi. Thanks for the info on supertraining I asked you for at the Go Heavy forum. Your views interest me as I am pushing 50 and work out perhaps to hard sometimes. Have yet to read your article in full but I will. Keep in touch, Bob
You read correctly coach Davies, I am taking approximately .17 g/kg (LBM) of BCAA’s both immediately before and immediately after each workout… meaning .68 g/kg (LBM) of BCAA’s per training day. Assuming I can continue to comply, is this too much. Also what do you think of the suggestions re: use of immune boosters and anti-oxidants?
Just completed workout 1 of day 1. I realize that the weights I planned on using were too high since I am using pretty short rest (60 seconds) between sets of 8-10. Workout 1 consisted of (3 sets of each): bent-kneed deadlifts, semi-stiff-legged deadlifts, 1-leg curls, 1 leg reverse leg press, standing calf raises and seated calf raises. I took a relatively cool shower and massaged the lower back, glutes, hams and calves. Workout 2 of day 1 will commence at about 7 pm tonight. Again 3 sets of each, but with a higher rep range (12-15): front squats, leg presses (legs narrow and low on platform), hack squats, leg extensions (quads should be fried enough by this time that my knees are safe), back extension and Swiss ball crunches. After this I will hop in the jacuzzi at my gym for about 15-20 minutes as well as massaging my legs with a vibrating massager when I get back home.