Mean Mugging and Staring

Off Topic
141

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
True story…dropping off a friend in N. Philly, my young son in the back. Parked on the street, in the dark, sitting quietly and talking. A neighbor of the friend is making her way up the sidewalk from her car. Further down the sidewalk, two young teens approaching with hoodies on. I didn’t even see what was coming next and I’ve been around. They stop, appear to be casually talking to her - this is occuring at the left front bumper of my vehicle. They are in fact, sticking her up. They take her purse, and smash her cell phone. They do not even notice us sitting there. I have my handgun right in the side of my seat. Is this a moment to be a hero and protect others? Potentially putting my young son and friend at risk?

I languished months later over this event. It really bothered me because I truly believe the strong should protect the weak - and I’ve been blessed to be “strong” (which isn’t just limited to how much you can bench). What was the “right” answer? What was the “legal” response? I’m living with that moment, because I had a gun with me. If I did not have a gun, I have no decision to make other than the one I ultimately made…which was to FEAR for the safety of that precious little man sitting in the back seat. My heart was pounding thru my chest - and not for MY safety - I’ve been shot at many times before and my heart didn’t race like that.

The point is, these situations do not occur in a vacuum. They are not neat and clean. What if I decided to “protect others” as some here as suggested? What if the kid had a bb pistol and brandished it my way and I fire and kill him? What if a witness later says he never raised his weapon, but I thought he was? What if he went to fire at me, and my son or friend was hit? What if the very act of my opening my door, or rolling down my window alerted them to a witness and they decided to start shooting indiscriminately at a car with my young son inside?

By the way, this lady was pissed we didn’t do anything. Well, I was there in a sense…in those split seconds, I made a judgment call that she was getting ROBBED, not MURDERED and that she would not be injured. Had I felt “heroic” and “empowered” by my firearm, the situation could have been fucking tragic for all involved. Those of you jerking off over your guns on your keyboard have obviously never been confronted with real life and death situations - otherwise you wouldn’t speak so cavalierly about them.

To this day, I know I made the “right” decision, and it still bothers me nonetheless. If I have no gun? I have no decision to make. 99% of non law enforcement types (and even they get it wrong sometimes) would be well served to never be in the position to make such decisions.

I promise I’m off my soap box but seriously, I wouldn’t want to see anyone here perish or go to jail over the false sense of security or machismo of having a gun…[/quote]

You did the right thing. That situation can get beyond messy… and if I had a son who was with me at the time, I would not have done a damn thing to attract attention.

You’re not a vigilante or a cop. Like you said- you could have gone to jail for a long time had you acted wrong in that situation (Which is one that cops get shit loads of training for and will have the law on their side most times if something goes down.)

You? You’re just another cat with a gun when the cops get there. And to those kids on the street, you’re just another asshole gettin in the way.

Good for you.

142

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

You’re taking this personal.[/quote]

…says the guy continually making a generic point all about him. Classic.

143

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Dedicated wrote:
Hey, thanks bodyguard, I appreciate that. And, an aside as you are a bodyguard and from the East Coast, do you know Chuck Zito? I just ordered his book street Street Justice and look forward to reading it. Seems he has a similar background as yours.

D

I know him just casually, in passing. Not sure about backgrounds…he was a biker as you know, I have biker friends…I never wanted to commit to that deadend :slight_smile: Nothing against it, but that’s a life decision, not a hobby.
[/quote]

I hear ya and thanks for the answer.

Again, great points you are making. I recently took the CW course and only have to put in my application with the Sheriffs Dept. for my permit (pretty much a given with the course and no felonies). I still plan on doing it but also consider the points you make as it can be a double edged sword. I have no qualms about having a weapon available in my home for use if someone is invading my domain, but carrying one out in public is a whole nother level of responsibility.

Bottom line is I don’t live in Compton, Tortilla Flats, Harlem, or Beruit, and the probability of running into characters with nothing to lose is quite low. I no doubt have a far greater risk of a semi running me off the highway to my end then a gun battle with a Al Capone Crip/Bood/MS13 wannabe ever happening.

D

144

I’ve only been in 3 or 4 bad situations in my life, meaning where I was pretty sure a guy was looking at me as a potential target. All but one was quickly and easily diffused by engaging the guy in friendly even-toned conversation. Something as simple as “Hey man, do you know where the nearest gas station is?” followed by a “Thanks.” when he tells you.

People like to be respected. By asking a question, it gives the sense that you respect them enough to ask their advice. Once they answer, they’ve given you something. That makes them feel good. It totally raises the bar for how desperate they would have to be to go through with any plan to harm you.

The one that didn’t work out… I stumbled onto a maybe 150 pound 17 year old kid bullying my roommate’s 6 year old cousin. It was so foreign to me that I didn’t get it at all. I thought if I pointed out how stupid that was, the guy would stop. (it didn’t) I had to just get in between him and the 6 year old and give him a choice. Pick on someone his own size, or walk away. At the time, I really was “his own size”. Not big at all. But eventually he walked away. (This was good, because he very likely could have kicked my ass if he tried. Lol.)

145

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
Saying hello and not getting on your high horse is not about being ‘‘holier than thou’’ or showing excessive kindness. If you think just saying hello to someone who staring at you is a dream scenario you must be a very emotional overeacting guy. Is that really how you are?
Maybe you are the febble-minded aggressive one. Stay away from me.
?

Around here, saying hello to someone under some scenarios would invite more dialogue than you probably want. If you’re in the wrong neighborhood (around here, meaning one which isn’t your own), your best bet is to stand tall, walk with purpose like you belong, and keep it moving. Engaging someone even politely potentially only opens a door you don’t want to walk thru. I don’t know how things are in Canada - the world all has hot spots, but around here, you keep moving.

Villian: <“mean mugging”>
You: “good day to you kind fellow, how are you on this fine day?”
Villian “yo nigga, what you want around here - who the fuck is you”
You: “oh kind sir, thank you for asking, but I’m just passing thru on my way to my uncle’s niece’s boyfriend’s house where we intend to watch the football game on his new big screen tv while consuming copious amounts of pizza and beer”
Villian: “nigga I didn’t ask you all that shit, I asked you what the fuck are you doing around here? you don’t belong here motherfucker” <villian is now approaching, pissed off because you “engaged” him>
You: “gee wiz, I’m sorry, I’ll just be on my way”
Villian: “naw mafucker, run your pockets …” <now you’re surrounded by some more “locals” and maybe someone takes a swing at you - pack mentality, attempt to escalate, because after all, that’s what some live for - they are LOOKING FOR AN EXCUSE - you gave it to them by talking to them>

Try this instead:

Villian:
You: <walking, meeting the stare confidently with a could care less glance, poker faced, while keeping your ass moving in the direction you’re heading - not walking too fast, or timid, but purposefully walking at a normal confident pace, but with the intent of going somewhere>

The end

[/quote]

I see your point but what happen if you just say ‘‘hello’’ instead of “good day to you kind fellow, how are you on this fine day?”. Cause If you say it this way it makes look like over-complying soft guy.I was talking about a hello as if you are talking to a clerk. And why not show some virtue by being naturally kind.

then
You: <walking, meeting the stare confidently with a could care less glance, poker faced, while keeping your ass moving in the direction you’re heading - not walking too fast, or timid, but purposefully walking at a normal confident pace, but with the intent of going somewhere>

146

[quote]NeelyDan wrote:
i find it revolting for some stooge to be holding up the head of a creature he killed not for the meat/product it supplies, but for the fulfillment of his demented/absence of self esteem.
[/quote]

I agree.

147

jasmincar makes a valid point, you CAN diffuse situations with body language. Sure as shit not everyone can tho, some people come across as troublemakin’ rabblerousers!

148

[quote]jasmincar wrote:
I see your point but what happen if you just say ‘‘hello’’ instead of “good day to you kind fellow, how are you on this fine day?”. Cause If you say it this way it makes look like over-complying soft guy.I was talking about a hello as if you are talking to a clerk. And why not show some virtue by being naturally kind.

then
You: <walking, meeting the stare confidently with a could care less glance, poker faced, while keeping your ass moving in the direction you’re heading - not walking too fast, or timid, but purposefully walking at a normal confident pace, but with the intent of going somewhere>
[/quote]

I didn’t mean to make light of your opinion…I meant to exaggerate for effect. My point is, in a lot of these scenarios, friendliness or politeness as you call it, is a sign of submission and weakness. A lot of these little street gangsters have very fragile egos and a as such, they are basically bullies at their core. They may be little hustlers, but most don’t have a benz, a nice house, etc. Their ego is tied up in how “hard” they are or in their local gang affiliation. Most of them are looking for weak prey - someone out of place, who can be intimidated. Whether you are or not, you don’t open the door for them. You are in THEIR HOUSE. You don’t bow down but you keep it moving. In such a scenario, I speak only when spoken to. I got swagger like King Kong and Tony Montana, but I keep my mouth shut and my policy is unless you impede my progress or make me answer you, we have nothing to discuss. I’m minding my business…

If the tables are turned, you’re walking down a hot block where I’m “home” and you nod or say hi to me unsolicited, you’re marking yourself as weak. You have just tucked your tail between your legs and if I’d be so inclined (I’m not), you’re a victim.

149

[quote]dirtbag wrote:
powerful01 wrote:
To Dirtbag:

The only reason I can see for you to carry a gun is to stoke your own ego. [/quote]

Plenty of other reasons to carry. I carry when I go running. Lots of dogs around here that people dropped off and they pack up. So every know and then I will pop one. Keeps them away from me and scared of humans.

150

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
True story…dropping off a friend in N. Philly, my young son in the back. Parked on the street, in the dark, sitting quietly and talking. A neighbor of the friend is making her way up the sidewalk from her car. Further down the sidewalk, two young teens approaching with hoodies on. I didn’t even see what was coming next and I’ve been around. They stop, appear to be casually talking to her - this is occuring at the left front bumper of my vehicle. They are in fact, sticking her up. They take her purse, and smash her cell phone. They do not even notice us sitting there. I have my handgun right in the side of my seat. Is this a moment to be a hero and protect others? Potentially putting my young son and friend at risk?

I languished months later over this event. It really bothered me because I truly believe the strong should protect the weak - and I’ve been blessed to be “strong” (which isn’t just limited to how much you can bench). What was the “right” answer? What was the “legal” response? I’m living with that moment, because I had a gun with me. If I did not have a gun, I have no decision to make other than the one I ultimately made…which was to FEAR for the safety of that precious little man sitting in the back seat. My heart was pounding thru my chest - and not for MY safety - I’ve been shot at many times before and my heart didn’t race like that.

The point is, these situations do not occur in a vacuum. They are not neat and clean. What if I decided to “protect others” as some here as suggested? What if the kid had a bb pistol and brandished it my way and I fire and kill him? What if a witness later says he never raised his weapon, but I thought he was? What if he went to fire at me, and my son or friend was hit? What if the very act of my opening my door, or rolling down my window alerted them to a witness and they decided to start shooting indiscriminately at a car with my young son inside?

By the way, this lady was pissed we didn’t do anything. Well, I was there in a sense…in those split seconds, I made a judgment call that she was getting ROBBED, not MURDERED and that she would not be injured. Had I felt “heroic” and “empowered” by my firearm, the situation could have been fucking tragic for all involved. Those of you jerking off over your guns on your keyboard have obviously never been confronted with real life and death situations - otherwise you wouldn’t speak so cavalierly about them.

To this day, I know I made the “right” decision, and it still bothers me nonetheless. If I have no gun? I have no decision to make. 99% of non law enforcement types (and even they get it wrong sometimes) would be well served to never be in the position to make such decisions.

I promise I’m off my soap box but seriously, I wouldn’t want to see anyone here perish or go to jail over the false sense of security or machismo of having a gun…

You did the right thing. That situation can get beyond messy… and if I had a son who was with me at the time, I would not have done a damn thing to attract attention.

You’re not a vigilante or a cop. Like you said- you could have gone to jail for a long time had you acted wrong in that situation (Which is one that cops get shit loads of training for and will have the law on their side most times if something goes down.)

You? You’re just another cat with a gun when the cops get there. And to those kids on the street, you’re just another asshole gettin in the way.

Good for you. [/quote]

Yeah who knows if them kids were packing or if they had more goons around the corner. These “What if’s” are what people should take seriously in any situation regardless if they have a weapon or not…

Good story and example BG. I’m young, but forever seeking wisdom from people in all walks of life.

151

When it happens to me I just rip the nearest stop sign out of the ground, break it in two over my knee and give them a Incredible Hulk style Most Muscular. They always run away.

Actually never really happened to me. Closest thing would probably be playing pick up basketball. Guy was trying to cause trouble, I’m a bastard who will never back down. Situation escalated until we were both practically raping each other on the court but neither actually crossed the line into assault. I guess I’ve lived a sheltered life.

152

IF UNICORNS WERE REAL, NONE OF THE WOULD HAPPEN!!!

153

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
I see your point but what happen if you just say ‘‘hello’’ instead of “good day to you kind fellow, how are you on this fine day?”. Cause If you say it this way it makes look like over-complying soft guy.I was talking about a hello as if you are talking to a clerk. And why not show some virtue by being naturally kind.

then
You: <walking, meeting the stare confidently with a could care less glance, poker faced, while keeping your ass moving in the direction you’re heading - not walking too fast, or timid, but purposefully walking at a normal confident pace, but with the intent of going somewhere>

I didn’t mean to make light of your opinion…I meant to exaggerate for effect. My point is, in a lot of these scenarios, friendliness or politeness as you call it, is a sign of submission and weakness. A lot of these little street gangsters have very fragile egos and a as such, they are basically bullies at their core. They may be little hustlers, but most don’t have a benz, a nice house, etc. Their ego is tied up in how “hard” they are or in their local gang affiliation. Most of them are looking for weak prey - someone out of place, who can be intimidated. Whether you are or not, you don’t open the door for them. You are in THEIR HOUSE. You don’t bow down but you keep it moving. In such a scenario, I speak only when spoken to. I got swagger like King Kong and Tony Montana, but I keep my mouth shut and my policy is unless you impede my progress or make me answer you, we have nothing to discuss. I’m minding my business…

If the tables are turned, you’re walking down a hot block where I’m “home” and you nod or say hi to me unsolicited, you’re marking yourself as weak. You have just tucked your tail between your legs and if I’d be so inclined (I’m not), you’re a victim.

[/quote]

I guess it is just different from place to place, but if someone acknowledged me in the manner you describe I would see them as being cordial, not weak at all. In fact, I’m not sure how you would even come the conclusion that someone is “week” based of saying, “hey”, or nodding.

154

[quote]Carlitosway wrote:
Yeah who knows if them kids were packing or if they had more goons around the corner. These “What if’s” are what people should take seriously in any situation regardless if they have a weapon or not…

Good story and example BG. I’m young, but forever seeking wisdom from people in all walks of life.

[/quote]

They were. One kid pulled a gun. I didn’t realize I wasn’t clear on that. She resisted initially, he pulled a gun, other kid grabbed the purse, found the cell phone, smashed it, and they jogged away. This is literally happening at my left front bumper, on the sidewalk, 6-7 feet away. And they somehow do not notice us sitting there. All I could think of was my son. When I realized what was happening, I slowly removed my gun from the side of my seat, slowly chambered a round, took off the safety, and had it ready if they noticed us. I would throw myself from a fucking bridge if anything happened to my son.

I’m not even sure I felt “safer” having a gun if they did notice me. If they realize I have a gun, one of two things are happening - they are running, or they are shooting. How do I “win” if a stray gets my son - even if I manage to hit them? How did that gun make me “safe”? I mean, seriously guys, I was absolutely set to gun them down if they noticed us and approached the car. I was going to take them right thru my window. I made a concious decision, right then and there, that I would risk the legal system to err on the side of caution in defense of my son - that I was not going to let anyone point a gun at the occupants of my vehicle. I also knew I could very well be throwing away my life in that very moment. I was going to shoot first, without warning. If that happened, do you think I was heading to City Hall to get a key to the city and hero’s welcome or, was I heading to a grand jury hearing at some point? What if one of my rounds misses in the fire fight and I hit the woman? What if one of my rounds travels thru someone’s window and strikes someone, or worse, a child? A gun is a liability gentlemen - you better be damn well sure you can manage it.

155

[quote]Dustin wrote:

I guess it is just different from place to place, but if someone acknowledged me in the manner you describe I would see them as being cordial, not weak at all. In fact, I’m not sure how you would even come the conclusion that someone is “week” based of saying, “hey”, or nodding. [/quote]

Because you’re not familiar with places like Camden NJ for example. And I don’t mean that as a put down. And I agree, if I’m home where I actually lay my head, in the burbs where my home is located, I don’t see weakness per se because of the environment. However, in a bad environment, were there are predator and prey only, it IS weak.

If I’m staring at you menacingly, and you nod or say “what’s up”, you have just lowered your tail. Body language Dustin…very important. Bullies and predators look for the weak, the wounded. A tiger doesn’t pick the fittest animal in the flock to pursue, he picks the weakest, the easiest.

156

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
A gun is a liability gentlemen - you better be damn well sure you can manage it.[/quote]

I was about to type something serious until I got to your last line and then all I wanted to type was, “Everytime I take a wizz and I need both hands, the same thought crosses my mind”…

157

[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
A gun is a liability gentlemen - you better be damn well sure you can manage it.

I was about to type something serious until I got to your last line and then all I wanted to type was, “Everytime I take a wizz and I need both hands, the same thought crosses my mind”…[/quote]

LMFAO…I always ask for a spot in the men’s room…kind of like the firemen working a hose…

158

You know, it’s these mean muggers who make me wish I could carry a katana, either waist strapped or back strapped. Here is how it would go down if life was fair.

Me> Walking with Katana strapped to my back

Thug> Mean Mugging me

Me> While staring back at the thug, I divert my course and walk over to him, making sure I get within striking distance of my katana. While still staring at him, I put my hand on the hilt of my blade. “Did you need something?”

Thug> acting tough “Bitch What Y…Gurgle gurgle gurgle”

Me> Wiping the blood off my sword and re-sheath it and continue on my way.

V

159

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Carlitosway wrote:
Yeah who knows if them kids were packing or if they had more goons around the corner. These “What if’s” are what people should take seriously in any situation regardless if they have a weapon or not…

Good story and example BG. I’m young, but forever seeking wisdom from people in all walks of life.

They were. One kid pulled a gun. I didn’t realize I wasn’t clear on that. She resisted initially, he pulled a gun, other kid grabbed the purse, found the cell phone, smashed it, and they jogged away. This is literally happening at my left front bumper, on the sidewalk, 6-7 feet away. And they somehow do not notice us sitting there. All I could think of was my son. When I realized what was happening, I slowly removed my gun from the side of my seat, slowly chambered a round, took off the safety, and had it ready if they noticed us. I would throw myself from a fucking bridge if anything happened to my son.

I’m not even sure I felt “safer” having a gun if they did notice me. If they realize I have a gun, one of two things are happening - they are running, or they are shooting. How do I “win” if a stray gets my son - even if I manage to hit them? How did that gun make me “safe”? I mean, seriously guys, I was absolutely set to gun them down if they noticed us and approached the car. I was going to take them right thru my window. I made a concious decision, right then and there, that I would risk the legal system to err on the side of caution in defense of my son - that I was not going to let anyone point a gun at the occupants of my vehicle. I also knew I could very well be throwing away my life in that very moment. I was going to shoot first, without warning. If that happened, do you think I was heading to City Hall to get a key to the city and hero’s welcome or, was I heading to a grand jury hearing at some point? What if one of my rounds misses in the fire fight and I hit the woman? What if one of my rounds travels thru someone’s window and strikes someone, or worse, a child? A gun is a liability gentlemen - you better be damn well sure you can manage it.[/quote]

Can’t even imagine how intense that moment was. I honestly would have just sat there in shock most likely. Did the police ever catch those guys?

160

[quote]Carlitosway wrote:

Can’t even imagine how intense that moment was. I honestly would have just sat there in shock most likely. Did the police ever catch those guys? [/quote]

I doubt it. She called her son who arrived not too long after and he went looking for them. I told him what they looked like/wearing. And I apologized and explained that my young son was in the car. He understood. I don’t think they even called the police…life in N. Philly man. Happens every day. Just doesn’t usually happen to me when my son is right there. I really feel for the children that have to live around that shit.