Also hijack apology to the OP, poweful1/clip11/HH, for delving into hunting from mean mugging. LOL
D
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
Are you a vegetarian? If not, have you ever seen a slaughter house and how many of those animals are treated before they’re killed? I also think there is a huge difference between hunting purely for sport, leaving the carcass to rot and hunting for sport but utilizing the entire animal. I for one, have never met someone who left a carcass there to rot. In fact, in Northern Wisconsin, there are hunters who actually donate their kill to the poor and also to homeless shelters.[/quote]
No, I am not a vegetarian.
I’ve WORKED in a slaughterhouse, knee deep in blood, so yeah, I’ve seen that first hand.
I’m not really going to argue with any of your points, because I absolutely agree with them.
To me, it qualifies as sustenance, though. Certainly you can appreciate that there exists slack-jawed yokels who kill for the pleasure of killing as a power thing.
[quote]powerful01 wrote:
Does anyone ever experience this:
I was in the store and some wannabe gangster was looking at me but would’nt make eye contact. When I saw him in the parking lot, him and his other wannabe gangster friends “mean mugged” me (staring while trying to intimidate) What were they trying to prove. I stared back. Is this supposed to induce fear. I hope to see all of them by themselves. I think I’m going to ask them if they think staring is rude. If they get the answer wrong , I’m going to slap the shit out of them them til they get it right. I would have done it then but these fuckers would have probably jumped me. I could have gotten 2 of them for sure but my 1911 was’nt in the car for the rest of them.
Also whoever in Golds Gym Waldorf, MD that found my Inzer wrist wraps give me my shit back.
And yeah ChapStick is part of my every day carry items.[/quote]
You’re a moron who is going to get arrested, get assault charges on you, and have your life ruined over some asshole in a parking lot. And that’s the BEST case scenario.
You fuckin deserve it.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
If the endeavor is truly “sporting”, the creature as you put it is not defenseless. When I boar hunt, we hunt with dogs. Hound crosses to find the game, pit bull dogs to catch. I assure you, the boar is not defenseless. When I send a terrier to ground for a groundhog, racoon or fox, - I assure you, the game is not “defenseless”. In both instances, either pitbull or terrier may not return unscathed, and may not return at all.
Not all hunting constitutes waiting in a tree to ambush bambi 
(I fear I just let loose a hunting prejudice).
However, the bigger question from me to you is, respecting your viewpoint for argument’s sake, how do you reconcile that with eating meat? Or using animal products? Isn’t it a slippery slope for you? Or do you believe that under God, there is some heirarchy of animals, or a catalog of “animal rights” where an animal hunted for sport shouldn’t be saraficed but an animal raised and murdered for food (a truly defenseless animal by the way) is okay? Realize, that the minute you start rationalize this belief of yours, you are halfway down that slippery slope!
[/quote]
neelydan sorta answered this above, but no, i have no aversion to the food chain per se. i find it revolting for some stooge to be holding up the head of a creature he killed not for the meat/product it supplies, but for the fulfillment of his demented/absence of self esteem.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
You’re a moron who is going to get arrested, get assault charges on you, and have your life ruined over some asshole in a parking lot. And that’s the BEST case scenario.
You fuckin deserve it.
[/quote]
neelydan appreciates the cut of your jib sir
[quote]NeelyDan wrote:
Davinci.v2 wrote:
Are you a vegetarian? If not, have you ever seen a slaughter house and how many of those animals are treated before they’re killed? I also think there is a huge difference between hunting purely for sport, leaving the carcass to rot and hunting for sport but utilizing the entire animal. I for one, have never met someone who left a carcass there to rot. In fact, in Northern Wisconsin, there are hunters who actually donate their kill to the poor and also to homeless shelters.
No, I am not a vegetarian.
I’ve WORKED in a slaughterhouse, knee deep in blood, so yeah, I’ve seen that first hand.
I’m not really going to argue with any of your points, because I absolutely agree with them.
To me, it qualifies as sustenance, though. Certainly you can appreciate that there exists slack-jawed yokels who kill for the pleasure of killing as a power thing.
[/quote]
Very true. There are hunters I respect and admire and there are even more pseudo hunters who are more akin to slack jawed yokels who just like those who carry guns to bolster a macho image, they hunt and ‘kill’ to bolster a false image.
Authenticity is usually quickly telling from the behavior observed.
D
[quote]Carlitosway wrote:
Vegita wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
Professor X wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Iron Dwarf wrote:
I’m fuckin’ 46 and way past getting all insecure over some loser giving me the evil eye or calling me a name.
Life’s too short to get angry every time someone pushes your little buttons. I’ve better things to do than devise ways to get even all the time.
Now if said loser puts his hands on me or my loved ones, totally different story.
I can’t even remember the last time someone did that to me. I guess I was probably still in college. People tend to pick up on insecurities. Outside of being around very drunk people who act differently than they normally do, I doubt too many big dudes are really getting stared down regularly. If you carry yourself like someone who gives a shit about people staring them down, then it is probably much more likely to happen.
Except if you’re walking thru pollacktown in Camden NJ…and you don’t live there.
No, I live in Houston, Tx and grew up on the south side. Like I said, I have had that happen, but not in a long while and not since I was much smaller. I even work in a pretty rough neighborhood so it isn’t like I’ve been sheltered and am speaking out of my ass.
Didn’t imply you were But no one around here cares how big I am or if I can fight…I’ve had teenagers 120lbs dripping wet try it and I know that they’d let a hot one fly before they’d fight me. I have a very distinct choice: I can win the immediate altercation (if they are unarmed), and dodge bullets (hopefully) later that day, week or month - but it will come back to that.
I think this says it all. With the amount of bullshit that goes on now a days, How can you even think about escalating anything into a conflict. I mean if there is a way out of something without a conflict, it’s not that I am a pussy or afraid or wouldn’t like to teach someone a lesson. It’s just that even dumb kids these days MIGHT hold a grudge, have something to prove, or have you be the straw that broke the camels back and come looking to put a bullet in you or your family. Why take the risk for such little reward?
V
My cousin was always gang bangin’ and me being like his little brother would tag along(luckily I didn’t follow in his footsteps, cause he’s actually dead right now). So I firsthand saw the mentality of people who lived the life. Most of his friends got high/drunk some used meth/coke(which made them feel untouchable). Now put one of these guys who is usually strapped, all revved up, in a situation where he’s feeling challenged. Especially in front of his buddies. He won’t want to look like a coward and will do something about it.
With how some gang initiations work. Just shooting a rival or anybody who stands out for that matter is enough to “prove” yourself.
Shit the only ones I fear though are the mafioso’s, guys from Mexican/Russian cartels and alike. (most ruthless sob’s) There’s some people who are real fucked who really live just for power, women, violence and money.[/quote]
Look at that, some great posts in a thread full of bullshit.
That’s nice to see.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
Saying hello and not getting on your high horse is not about being ‘‘holier than thou’’ or showing excessive kindness. If you think just saying hello to someone who staring at you is a dream scenario you must be a very emotional overeacting guy. Is that really how you are?
Maybe you are the febble-minded aggressive one. Stay away from me.
?
Around here, saying hello to someone under some scenarios would invite more dialogue than you probably want. If you’re in the wrong neighborhood (around here, meaning one which isn’t your own), your best bet is to stand tall, walk with purpose like you belong, and keep it moving. Engaging someone even politely potentially only opens a door you don’t want to walk thru. I don’t know how things are in Canada - the world all has hot spots, but around here, you keep moving.
Villian: <“mean mugging”>
You: “good day to you kind fellow, how are you on this fine day?”
Villian “yo nigga, what you want around here - who the fuck is you”
You: “oh kind sir, thank you for asking, but I’m just passing thru on my way to my uncle’s niece’s boyfriend’s house where we intend to watch the football game on his new big screen tv while consuming copious amounts of pizza and beer”
Villian: “nigga I didn’t ask you all that shit, I asked you what the fuck are you doing around here? you don’t belong here motherfucker” <villian is now approaching, pissed off because you “engaged” him>
You: “gee wiz, I’m sorry, I’ll just be on my way”
Villian: “naw mafucker, run your pockets …” <now you’re surrounded by some more “locals” and maybe someone takes a swing at you - pack mentality, attempt to escalate, because after all, that’s what some live for - they are LOOKING FOR AN EXCUSE - you gave it to them by talking to them>
Try this instead:
Villian:
You: <walking, meeting the stare confidently with a could care less glance, poker faced, while keeping your ass moving in the direction you’re heading - not walking too fast, or timid, but purposefully walking at a normal confident pace, but with the intent of going somewhere>
The end
[/quote]
Great fucking post.
[quote]NeelyDan wrote:
Davinci.v2 wrote:
Are you a vegetarian? If not, have you ever seen a slaughter house and how many of those animals are treated before they’re killed? I also think there is a huge difference between hunting purely for sport, leaving the carcass to rot and hunting for sport but utilizing the entire animal. I for one, have never met someone who left a carcass there to rot. In fact, in Northern Wisconsin, there are hunters who actually donate their kill to the poor and also to homeless shelters.
No, I am not a vegetarian.
I’ve WORKED in a slaughterhouse, knee deep in blood, so yeah, I’ve seen that first hand.
I’m not really going to argue with any of your points, because I absolutely agree with them.
To me, it qualifies as sustenance, though. Certainly you can appreciate that there exists slack-jawed yokels who kill for the pleasure of killing as a power thing.
[/quote]
Why do you assume it’s a power thing? Face it, evolved or not, man is at the top of the food chain as “predator”. If not, we would not even raise animals for food which although “civilized” is still an act of predation. We are predators, pure and simple and no matter how much your evolved sensibilities would like to brush that aside, it’s a simple fact. So I ask - and not to antagonize, but to truly have intelligent discourse - what does it matter why a kill is made? How would one distinguish between a sporting hunt and a “power thing”? Does one distinguish between kills in the wild - whether they are necessary, sporting or “clean”. Ever see killer whales torture and play with their prey - bouncing around, throwing about seals and such before finally consuming them? Is a band of hyenas sporting when they attack? Or fair? How about any animal predator on the face of the earth…which, by the way, by rule, will pursue the WEAKEST or INJURED among prey?
I argue we ARE evolved in that we have regulations and laws - largely unecessary though, but necessary to put money in the government’s pocket.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
JayPierce wrote:
Just because you carry doesn’t mean anything. It doesn’t mean you need your ego stroked or that you’re insecure. It doesn’t mean you can’t fight. It doesn’t mean you’re weak.
It means you’ll do what’s necessary to protect your family and others around you. People who don’t understand that are commonly referred to as ‘the victim’.
This it not a flame against you, so please don’t take it that way. This is a flame toward that mentality above. Let me explain…I hope I don’t ramble.
I’m not going to go statistic hunting just to reply to this. But there are people that have gotten themselves in over their head because they have a gun and where they would have normally avoided a situation, they felt empowered. And that sense of empowerment got them in trouble. I am a gun owner too. All of us gun owners will all to a man tell the next guy listening how they are prepared to use that gun defending their life or family. There are enough instances where that doesn’t occur where we can safely conclude that a whole bunch of us are full of shit.
Life and death situations are made in a blink of an eye. That’s why law enforcement is trained and drilled on these situations. You think you’re going to pull your weapon to protecdt someone other than your family? Really? In an split second, you’re pepared to deal with the legal consequences of using that weapon? You are prepared to have your life decided for you in an instant? You’re trained for that? Not YOU the poster - YOU that share this mentality expressed above. The simple fact is, the majority of you are NOT. I can raise countless touchy legal scenarios that would ensnair a bunch of you in a web of “what if”. And assuming you’re all reasonably intelligent, none of you want to go to court and have your future decided on “what ifs”.
There are VERY FEW clear instances of justifiable deadly force. You are VERY UNLIKELY to ever encounter one. You are FAR MORE LIKELY to encounter a situation that could however get you in trouble or get you injured.
When police use deadly force, even if they are in a marginal situation, they have a presumption in their favor and law enforcement on their side. YOU WILL NOT.
I have protected many people over the years, many famous, and ARMED security is a liability. The name of the game to protect someone else - AND YOURSELF, if AVOIDANCE. I got paid handsomely to AVOID dangerous situations, not to quell them. Some people, when armed with a gun, no longer AVOID dangerous situations. They are emboldened. There was a recent study that proved this. And the results for those emboldened is not good.
This isn’t an anti-gun rant. I love my guns. But this is a reality check. I live in a State (NJ) that will not let you carry (without a letter from Jesus himself). I hate that. But frankly, it’s not so bad for the average Joe. Why? Because you’re very unlikely to ever need your gun if you practice AVOIDANCE. And too many will falter at the time of truth - and by falter, I mean not act, or maka a bad decision. Either way, having a gun raises the stakes - and you better be prepared to play. I had a very dear friend that did just that - I told him not to carry because I knew he didn’t have it in him…and he was gunned down with his gun still in his waistband. And he was “protecting” his home. So don’t kid yourself.
At home, the lines are much more clear and in your favor. That is your “homestead” where you and your family reside. Threats are much more clear but even then, laws vary and you could find yourself in a world of trouble. You could find yourself in court for simply brandishing a gun or pointing it at someone - even on your own property.
All I’m saying is this is serious business, not time for false bravado, whether over the internet or otherwise. You do NOT want to take a life in a marginal situation - even if you escaped prosecution. Most normal people are NOT killers and taking a life would impact you. I’m not preaching here…just giving a dose of reality. Not a flame to anyone in particular, but this mentality is dangerous. Fighting, carrying guns, etc. is serious business. People die. I’ve seen it…over and over.
I’m not being holier than thou either. The record will show, that I have failed over and over to take my own advice written here. But I’m getting better I write this as someone that WILL shoot you - but someone who as he has gotten older shudders at the thought of being put in a marginal situation and making the wrong decision and going to jail for it.
You may not think this applies to you. You are probably wrong. Philadelphia you can carry. There are tons of guns around here, and tons of shootings. A lot of it is street gangster shit true. But a good number is also legal weapons. And those are the people that are likely NOT AVOIDING a bad potential situation because they have a gun. Where, if they didn’t have a gun, they’d keep walking for instance. And I bet you have more than your fair share that wish they had that moment back.
That’s all. I rambled. Sorry.
[/quote]
Another great one. I hope that dumbfuck OP reads and rereads them.
[quote]Dedicated wrote:
Yeah, I feel compelled to more fully elucidate my position on hunting.
As Testy pointed out if one is a true vegan completely abstaining from any type of meat or animal derived products (leather jackets and such) while I may not agree with them, I can more fully respect their position. If one however is a meat eater albeit one who buys their meat at Safeway or some meat serving establishment while at the same time deriding those who hunt, I view them in a hypocritical light.
As others here have stated a stock raised animal has a life I would wish on no creature from the cradle to the grave. Born, fed and fattened, packed in excruciatingly uncomfortable conditions in a stockyard, and finally slaughtered.
A creature such as a deer or elk born and raised in the wild living a free life and naturally endowed with all the instinctive and also learned behaviors to avoid predators and survive, has a much truer life experience then it’s farm raised cousins. It’s life is also filled with peril and can be taken at any moment by a host of natural factors such as lighting, broken leg from a fall, starvation, extreme cold weather and snow, and also predation from mt. lions, bears, coyotes, wolves, and yes, man.
When I hunt big game, I use a primitive weapon (muzzleloader) and hunt in the animals domain on foot with no other help other then my two feet, my weapon, my pack, and my knife. I may walk five to eight miles in day and when an animal is taken it comes out on my back under my own power.
Being in that wild beautiful country and taking my game, my food, in this fashion to me is the ultimate experience putting me in touch with my ancestors who lived this way of life for countless years. It is my part in the circle of life and death which goes on and on in the wild and in civilization.
Again, I can understand and respect those for who it has no meaning and maybe even revulsion. I hope as long as I don’t try to shove it in their faces they can understand my need to be a part of it.
D[/quote]
You sir are a sporting man.
For anyone more interested in this topic of what stares can do- I suggest you read Marc Macyoung’s “Cheap Shots, Ambushes, and Other Lessons.” It goes deeply into what these subconcious challenges mean and the repercussions of reacting to them.
[quote]NeelyDan wrote:
neelydan sorta answered this above, but no, i have no aversion to the food chain per se. i find it revolting for some stooge to be holding up the head of a creature he killed not for the meat/product it supplies, but for the fulfillment of his demented/absence of self esteem.
[/quote]
Again, why do you equate s sporting hunt, for no other reason than sport, to that of a lack of self esteem? I don’t hunt for meat or sustenance. I will happily stand here and be labled a sport hunter. I take no joy in the kill, but I hunt because I enjoy the primitive nature of working with canine - a practice with roots all the way back to domestication itself. Man and dog, working together is my kick. I could care less about a kill or a trophy. But if I pose with our kill, does that mean I’m demented or lack self esteem? Seriously?
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Why do you assume it’s a power thing?[/quote]
I hope you don’t mind my going through this point by point. Not to engage in semantics with you, but why do you assume it’s an assumption? I’ve seen this. First hand. I don’t make a habit of forming baseless opinion.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Face it, evolved or not, man is at the top of the food chain as “predator”. If not, we would not even raise animals for food which although “civilized” is still an act of predation. We are predators, pure and simple and no matter how much your evolved sensibilities would like to brush that aside, it’s a simple fact.[/quote]
…okay? Where exactly did this get brought open for debate? My ‘evolved sensibilities’ sense incoming strawmen.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
So I ask - and not to antagonize, but to truly have intelligent discourse - what does it matter why a kill is made?[/quote]
Well, sir - it matters in the sense that this is a message board that encourages opinion - this one just happens to be mine.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
How would one distinguish between a sporting hunt and a “power thing”? Does one distinguish between kills in the wild - whether they are necessary, sporting or “clean”.[/quote]
Ugh…really man? You can’t figure this one out? After all the points made previously, even? You seem like a relatively bright guy. Try.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Ever see killer whales torture and play with their prey - bouncing around, throwing about seals and such before finally consuming them? Is a band of hyenas sporting when they attack? Or fair? How about any animal predator on the face of the earth…which, by the way, by rule, will pursue the WEAKEST or INJURED among prey?[/quote]
At this point you’re just being nonsensical. Let’s try and focus on beings of like intelligence and capacity for thought (ideally - which, ironically, those who I am referring to do not typically possess).
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
I argue we ARE evolved in that we have regulations and laws - largely unecessary though, but necessary to put money in the government’s pocket.
[/quote]
I argue that you’re arguing something entirely on a tangent from what my point originally was.
Hey, thanks bodyguard, I appreciate that. And, an aside as you are a bodyguard and from the East Coast, do you know Chuck Zito? I just ordered his book street Street Justice and look forward to reading it. Seems he has a similar background as yours.
D
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Again, why do you equate s sporting hunt, for no other reason than sport, to that of a lack of self esteem? I don’t hunt for meat or sustenance. I will happily stand here and be labled a sport hunter. I take no joy in the kill, but I hunt because I enjoy the primitive nature of working with canine - a practice with roots all the way back to domestication itself. Man and dog, working together is my kick. I could care less about a kill or a trophy. But if I pose with our kill, does that mean I’m demented or lack self esteem? Seriously?
[/quote]
Christ on a cracker man, I am not talking in absolutes. Get it through your head - I am referring to a certain demographic. If you’re not part of it, hoo-fucking-ray for you.
Let me try and summarize one last time:
What the anti-hunting crowd questions is the maturity, sanity, and intelligence of gun-hugging little boys - who’d never have the temerity to mess with a grown man - who go out to shoot at live animals for the Viagara-esque effect it has on them. The issue is the mentality and intellect of those cretins who derive pleasure from blowing the life out of animals. The guy working on the ranch, at the slaughter house, and butcher’s shop do not pursue their vocation for the thrill of killing.
True story…dropping off a friend in N. Philly, my young son in the back. Parked on the street, in the dark, sitting quietly and talking. A neighbor of the friend is making her way up the sidewalk from her car. Further down the sidewalk, two young teens approaching with hoodies on. I didn’t even see what was coming next and I’ve been around. They stop, appear to be casually talking to her - this is occuring at the left front bumper of my vehicle.
They are in fact, sticking her up. They take her purse, and smash her cell phone. They do not even notice us sitting there. I have my handgun right in the side of my seat. Is this a moment to be a hero and protect others? Potentially putting my young son and friend at risk?
I languished months later over this event. It really bothered me because I truly believe the strong should protect the weak - and I’ve been blessed to be “strong” (which isn’t just limited to how much you can bench). What was the “right” answer? What was the “legal” response? I’m living with that moment, because I had a gun with me.
If I did not have a gun, I have no decision to make other than the one I ultimately made…which was to FEAR for the safety of that precious little man sitting in the back seat. My heart was pounding thru my chest - and not for MY safety - I’ve been shot at many times before and my heart didn’t race like that.
The point is, these situations do not occur in a vacuum. They are not neat and clean. What if I decided to “protect others” as some here as suggested? What if the kid had a bb pistol and brandished it my way and I fire and kill him? What if a witness later says he never raised his weapon, but I thought he was? What if he went to fire at me, and my son or friend was hit?
What if the very act of my opening my door, or rolling down my window alerted them to a witness and they decided to start shooting indiscriminately at a car with my young son inside?
By the way, this lady was pissed we didn’t do anything. Well, I was there in a sense…in those split seconds, I made a judgment call that she was getting ROBBED, not MURDERED and that she would not be injured. Had I felt “heroic” and “empowered” by my firearm, the situation could have been fucking tragic for all involved. Those of you jerking off over your guns on your keyboard have obviously never been confronted with real life and death situations - otherwise you wouldn’t speak so cavalierly about them.
To this day, I know I made the “right” decision, and it still bothers me nonetheless. If I have no gun? I have no decision to make. 99% of non law enforcement types (and even they get it wrong sometimes) would be well served to never be in the position to make such decisions.
I promise I’m off my soap box but seriously, I wouldn’t want to see anyone here perish or go to jail over the false sense of security or machismo of having a gun…
[quote]Dedicated wrote:
Hey, thanks bodyguard, I appreciate that. And, an aside as you are a bodyguard and from the East Coast, do you know Chuck Zito? I just ordered his book street Street Justice and look forward to reading it. Seems he has a similar background as yours.
D[/quote]
I know him just casually, in passing. Not sure about backgrounds…he was a biker as you know, I have biker friends…I never wanted to commit to that deadend Nothing against it, but that’s a life decision, not a hobby.
[quote]NeelyDan wrote:
Let me try and summarize one last time:
What the anti-hunting crowd questions is the maturity, sanity, and intelligence of gun-hugging little boys - who’d never have the temerity to mess with a grown man - who go out to shoot at live animals for the Viagara-esque effect it has on them. The issue is the mentality and intellect of those cretins who derive pleasure from blowing the life out of animals. The guy working on the ranch, at the slaughter house, and butcher’s shop do not pursue their vocation for the thrill of killing.[/quote]
You’re taking this personal. Perhaps it’ a failure of my writing style. If you care to start a thread, I would be happy to engage you intelligently and respectfully. I understand your points, but do not agree with them. Whether you want to flesh all that out, no pun intended, is up to you. I’ve had more than my share of debates with “antis”. Good day to you.