Mean Mugging and Staring

Off Topic
101

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
Just because you carry doesn’t mean anything. It doesn’t mean you need your ego stroked or that you’re insecure. It doesn’t mean you can’t fight. It doesn’t mean you’re weak.

It means you’ll do what’s necessary to protect your family and others around you. People who don’t understand that are commonly referred to as ‘the victim’.[/quote]

This it not a flame against you, so please don’t take it that way. This is a flame toward that mentality above. Let me explain…I hope I don’t ramble.

I’m not going to go statistic hunting just to reply to this. But there are people that have gotten themselves in over their head because they have a gun and where they would have normally avoided a situation, they felt empowered. And that sense of empowerment got them in trouble. I am a gun owner too. All of us gun owners will all to a man tell the next guy listening how they are prepared to use that gun defending their life or family. There are enough instances where that doesn’t occur where we can safely conclude that a whole bunch of us are full of shit.

Life and death situations are made in a blink of an eye. That’s why law enforcement is trained and drilled on these situations. You think you’re going to pull your weapon to protecdt someone other than your family? Really? In an split second, you’re pepared to deal with the legal consequences of using that weapon? You are prepared to have your life decided for you in an instant? You’re trained for that? Not YOU the poster - YOU that share this mentality expressed above. The simple fact is, the majority of you are NOT. I can raise countless touchy legal scenarios that would ensnair a bunch of you in a web of “what if”. And assuming you’re all reasonably intelligent, none of you want to go to court and have your future decided on “what ifs”.

There are VERY FEW clear instances of justifiable deadly force. You are VERY UNLIKELY to ever encounter one. You are FAR MORE LIKELY to encounter a situation that could however get you in trouble or get you injured.

When police use deadly force, even if they are in a marginal situation, they have a presumption in their favor and law enforcement on their side. YOU WILL NOT.

I have protected many people over the years, many famous, and ARMED security is a liability. The name of the game to protect someone else - AND YOURSELF, if AVOIDANCE. I got paid handsomely to AVOID dangerous situations, not to quell them. Some people, when armed with a gun, no longer AVOID dangerous situations. They are emboldened. There was a recent study that proved this. And the results for those emboldened is not good.

This isn’t an anti-gun rant. I love my guns. But this is a reality check. I live in a State (NJ) that will not let you carry (without a letter from Jesus himself). I hate that. But frankly, it’s not so bad for the average Joe. Why? Because you’re very unlikely to ever need your gun if you practice AVOIDANCE. And too many will falter at the time of truth - and by falter, I mean not act, or maka a bad decision. Either way, having a gun raises the stakes - and you better be prepared to play. I had a very dear friend that did just that - I told him not to carry because I knew he didn’t have it in him…and he was gunned down with his gun still in his waistband. And he was “protecting” his home. So don’t kid yourself.

At home, the lines are much more clear and in your favor. That is your “homestead” where you and your family reside. Threats are much more clear but even then, laws vary and you could find yourself in a world of trouble. You could find yourself in court for simply brandishing a gun or pointing it at someone - even on your own property.

All I’m saying is this is serious business, not time for false bravado, whether over the internet or otherwise. You do NOT want to take a life in a marginal situation - even if you escaped prosecution. Most normal people are NOT killers and taking a life would impact you. I’m not preaching here…just giving a dose of reality. Not a flame to anyone in particular, but this mentality is dangerous. Fighting, carrying guns, etc. is serious business. People die. I’ve seen it…over and over.

I’m not being holier than thou either. The record will show, that I have failed over and over to take my own advice written here. But I’m getting better :slight_smile: I write this as someone that WILL shoot you - but someone who as he has gotten older shudders at the thought of being put in a marginal situation and making the wrong decision and going to jail for it.

You may not think this applies to you. You are probably wrong. Philadelphia you can carry. There are tons of guns around here, and tons of shootings. A lot of it is street gangster shit true. But a good number is also legal weapons. And those are the people that are likely NOT AVOIDING a bad potential situation because they have a gun. Where, if they didn’t have a gun, they’d keep walking for instance. And I bet you have more than your fair share that wish they had that moment back.

That’s all. I rambled. Sorry.

102

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Gettnitdone wrote:

But if you bring the gun out only when things have already boiled over then no, it’s self defense. If you bring it out it in a suburban setting (justifiably), no. It also depends on how you approach the situation.
[/quote]

“self defense” is not some magical legal remedy to save your ass, but I’m sure you know that. Right? Your use of force in defending yourself or property must be “reasonable”. Things that seem to be “boiling” in the heat of the moment are not always so clear…until the smoke has cleared. Guns may or may not escalate a situation, but as I have written just prior to this, they do give many a false sense of security - and that in and of itself is an escalator. If you’re not avoiding where you normally would when you don’t have a gun, then you are making a big mistake.

103

By the way, I want to add my murdered friend was “harder” than most of you here. But he was still no killer. If I presented you with the situation (and even him if he were still alive), to a man you would all say you’d have come out blazing guns. There is NO doubt in my mind he WOULD have said the same thing.

Well, some stick up kids came to his house, and being emboldened by the “power” of his gun, he met them outside - his small daughters were inside. He didn’t call the police and stay inside ( which was the reasonable thing to do ), the stick up kids weren’t breaking down the door. No. He WENT OUTSIDE HIS HOME, gun in waistband. And he was gunned down. True story. Happened in Allentown PA. Shooter got the death penalty.

We can sit here and quarterback all day what he did wrong…but the fact remains, that gun makes a lot of people feel powerful…and real life happens in heart pounding seconds, not in the cute leisurely minutes it takes to make an internet reply…and we all make mistakes. ANY mistake with a gun is one you will regret for a long time.

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105

neelydan thinks anyone, outside of law enforcement, carrying a gun, or into guns, or validating themselves through the carrying of a gun, or shooting a deer in the head, is not fully evolved

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I love NeelyDan’s avatar. :slight_smile:

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[quote]nik133 wrote:
- YouTube [/quote]

That was hilarious but sadly, not too far from reality ;( That’s the world some of us live in.

108

[quote]NeelyDan wrote:
or shooting a deer in the head, is not fully evolved[/quote]

Are you a vegan, or just lack the fortitude to do your own killing?

109

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
By the way, I want to add my murdered friend was “harder” than most of you here. But he was still no killer. If I presented you with the situation (and even him if he were still alive), to a man you would all say you’d have come out blazing guns. There is NO doubt in my mind he WOULD have said the same thing.

Well, some stick up kids came to his house, and being emboldened by the “power” of his gun, he met them outside - his small daughters were inside. He didn’t call the police and stay inside ( which was the reasonable thing to do ), the stick up kids weren’t breaking down the door. No. He WENT OUTSIDE HIS HOME, gun in waistband. And he was gunned down. True story. Happened in Allentown PA. Shooter got the death penalty.

We can sit here and quarterback all day what he did wrong…but the fact remains, that gun makes a lot of people feel powerful…and real life happens in heart pounding seconds, not in the cute leisurely minutes it takes to make an internet reply…and we all make mistakes. ANY mistake with a gun is one you will regret for a long time.[/quote]

Thanks for sharing man. I seriously hope I never have to experience a situation like your friends. Even doing the right thing he still may have wound up shot, you just never know, some situations are just un-winable.

V

110

[quote]Testy1 wrote:
NeelyDan wrote:
or shooting a deer in the head, is not fully evolved

Are you a vegan, or just lack the fortitude to do your own killing?
[/quote]

I’ve noticed that in the midwest, it is far more socially acceptable than in other parts of the country to actually kill your own food (and I see you’re in Michigan). I was born and raised in Syracuse New York. I lived there until I was 21 and I didn’t know anyone south of the Adirondacks who hunted regularly for meat. Infact, most people I spoke to hated the idea of hunting and thought it was cruel.

I actually think that some slaughter houses are a worse fate for some animals versus living wildly and then having it end quickly. I generally stay away from generalizations such as the above, however this has been my experience, whether it is true or not. Oh and on a side note, fuck vegans and vegetarians, those people can’t be trusted.

111

[quote]Vegita wrote:

Thanks for sharing man. I seriously hope I never have to experience a situation like your friends. Even doing the right thing he still may have wound up shot, you just never know, some situations are just un-winable.

V[/quote]

I just got done reading some appelate papers online associated with his murder - this was more than 15 years ago. And it breaks my heart to this day - really hurts me. One, because I told him do not carry a gun, that it will raise the stakes (once someone knows you have/carry a gun, they can only come at you on THAT level). Two, because I normally would have been with him on that day and feel that I could have prevented it. Three, because of the two small daughters that lived with him and relied on him because their mom wasn’t shit. Four, because the State got his killer before we could.

http://www.aopc.org/OpPosting/Supreme/out/J-105-2004mo.pdf

112

[quote]undesired08 wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
undesired08 wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
Carlitosway wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
powerful01 wrote:

I think you are being a little “holier than thou” actually. I love how you have these dream scenarios of how you react and how they react back. That is more than fine for you. And, no, I don’t want to hear about the time you “killed a criminals ideas with kindness”. You don’t know me, so don’t try to put your ideals of how I am or any of my pistol packing friends are and or how we act.

I love how docile people always use the “it’s a masculine thing or T-Man”. My wife carrys a pistol, what does that make her? A crazy bitch that wants to have a penis? By the way, criminals aren’t criminals due to some type of family dysfunction. They are the way they are because they can do it. And to think it’s because mommy didn’t hug them is just fucking ignorant.[/quote]

This post is filled with assumption of things I never said. Stick with what is written.

We are talking about someone who is staring at you. He is not a criminal at this point.
Saying hello and not getting on your high horse is not about being ‘‘holier than thou’’ or showing excessive kindness. If you think just saying hello to someone who staring at you is a dream scenario you must be a very emotional overeacting guy. Is that really how you are?
Maybe you are the febble-minded aggressive one. Stay away from me.

I never talked about carrying a gun or not. You are implying that I am against having guns. I never said I was for it or that I wasnt for it. remember we are talking about someone STARING at you. It has nothing to do with guns at this point

‘‘They are the way they are because they can do it. And to think it’s because mommy didn’t hug them is just fucking ignorant’’ So If I can be a criminal I will be? It makes no sense. Do you think we are born criminal?

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[quote]jasmincar wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
Carlitosway wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
powerful01 wrote:
Does anyone ever experience this:

I was in the store and some wannabe gangster was looking at me but would’nt make eye contact. When I saw him in the parking lot, him and his other wannabe gangster friends “mean mugged” me (staring while trying to intimidate) What were they trying to prove. I stared back. Is this supposed to induce fear. I hope to see all of them by themselves. I think I’m going to ask them if they think staring is rude. If they get the answer wrong , I’m going to slap the shit out of them them til they get it right. I would have done it then but these fuckers would have probably jumped me. I could have gotten 2 of them for sure but my 1911 was’nt in the car for the rest of them.

Also whoever in Golds Gym Waldorf, MD that found my Inzer wrist wraps give me my shit back.

And yeah ChapStick is part of my every day carry items.

I think the best way in this situation is to casually wave at the guy, not being a smartass, just as if you waved a friendly stranger.

LOL!!!

Sign number one that the guy writing has never been in a “bad” neighborhood.

However, that mental image of Mr. Rogers meeting the projects is funny as hell.

alright his comment has me dyin as I visualize some one actually trying this. If after waving like a friendly stranger fails. What would you do next? Give him a pat on the back and ask what’s wrong buddy?

I have never been in a ‘‘bad’’ neighboorhood but I cant see how this could fail.I am gonna rephrase it.

You see some kind of wanna-be thug idiot who tries to intimidate you by staring at you. You say hello, as if there was no animosity. Then HE dont know what do because you don’t play his game.

You like that better?

Yep…but when he says, “what the fuck are you waving at, bitch?” do you move on to hugs or a group therapy session in the middle of the street?

In that case I would probably say something like: wow chill buddy

[/quote]

And…That is exactly where you would get your ass jumped. I go to school in a somewhat bad neighborhood and have seen it happen many times. That one dude mean mugging you is like the light on a angler fish. You may only see the light, but there’s plenty more behind it. You may only see that one dude starin’ you down, but sure as hell it’s because he’s either packing or has a bunch of buddies around the corner.

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[quote]jasmincar wrote:
Saying hello and not getting on your high horse is not about being ‘‘holier than thou’’ or showing excessive kindness. If you think just saying hello to someone who staring at you is a dream scenario you must be a very emotional overeacting guy. Is that really how you are?
Maybe you are the febble-minded aggressive one. Stay away from me.
?[/quote]

Around here, saying hello to someone under some scenarios would invite more dialogue than you probably want. If you’re in the wrong neighborhood (around here, meaning one which isn’t your own), your best bet is to stand tall, walk with purpose like you belong, and keep it moving. Engaging someone even politely potentially only opens a door you don’t want to walk thru. I don’t know how things are in Canada - the world all has hot spots, but around here, you keep moving.

Villian: <“mean mugging”>
You: “good day to you kind fellow, how are you on this fine day?”
Villian “yo nigga, what you want around here - who the fuck is you”
You: “oh kind sir, thank you for asking, but I’m just passing thru on my way to my uncle’s niece’s boyfriend’s house where we intend to watch the football game on his new big screen tv while consuming copious amounts of pizza and beer”
Villian: “nigga I didn’t ask you all that shit, I asked you what the fuck are you doing around here? you don’t belong here motherfucker” <villian is now approaching, pissed off because you “engaged” him>
You: “gee wiz, I’m sorry, I’ll just be on my way”
Villian: “naw mafucker, run your pockets …” <now you’re surrounded by some more “locals” and maybe someone takes a swing at you - pack mentality, attempt to escalate, because after all, that’s what some live for - they are LOOKING FOR AN EXCUSE - you gave it to them by talking to them>

Try this instead:

Villian:
You: <walking, meeting the stare confidently with a could care less glance, poker faced, while keeping your ass moving in the direction you’re heading - not walking too fast, or timid, but purposefully walking at a normal confident pace, but with the intent of going somewhere>

The end

115

[quote]NeelyDan wrote:
neelydan thinks anyone, outside of law enforcement, carrying a gun, or into guns, or validating themselves through the carrying of a gun, or shooting a deer in the head, is not fully evolved[/quote]

I rarely (maybe never) have shot a deer, or, elk, or antelope, etc. etc, in the head, although I make it a point to shoot them in the heart and or lungs when hunting them. Do I still fall in the non evolved camp?

I keed, I keed, the NeelyDan. I understand and respect your aversion to hunting and the taking of an animals life. I can really understand it, but for whatever reason I am in touch with our primitive and instinctive link to hunting and practice that endeavor often. However, again I can fully see how some would find it appalling. One of those weird dichotomy’s in life for me.

Bodyguard, you make some really great points!

D

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[quote]Testy1 wrote:
NeelyDan wrote:
or shooting a deer in the head, is not fully evolved

Are you a vegan, or just lack the fortitude to do your own killing?
[/quote]

it’s amusing to me you equate inner strength with the slaughter of a defenseless creature

ps killing for sustenance vs killing for sport

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[quote]Dedicated wrote:
I rarely (maybe never) have shot a deer, or, elk, or antelope, etc. etc, in the head, although I make it a point to shoot them in the heart and or lungs when hunting them. Do I still fall in the non evolved camp?

I keed, I keed, the NeelyDan. I understand and respect your aversion to hunting and the taking of an animals life. I can really understand it, but for whatever reason I am in touch with our primitive and instinctive link to hunting and practice that endeavor often. However, again I can fully see how some would find it appalling. One of those weird dichotomy’s in life for me.

Bodyguard, you make some really great points!

D[/quote]

i suppose since you successfully employed use of the word dichotomy i cannot classify you as unevolved

118

[quote]NeelyDan wrote:
Testy1 wrote:
NeelyDan wrote:
or shooting a deer in the head, is not fully evolved

Are you a vegan, or just lack the fortitude to do your own killing?

it’s amusing to me you equate inner strength with the slaughter of a defenseless creature

ps killing for sustenance vs killing for sport[/quote]

Are you a vegetarian? If not, have you ever seen a slaughter house and how many of those animals are treated before they’re killed? I also think there is a huge difference between hunting purely for sport, leaving the carcass to rot and hunting for sport but utilizing the entire animal. I for one, have never met someone who left a carcass there to rot. In fact, in Northern Wisconsin, there are hunters who actually donate their kill to the poor and also to homeless shelters.

119

[quote]NeelyDan wrote:
Testy1 wrote:
NeelyDan wrote:
or shooting a deer in the head, is not fully evolved

Are you a vegan, or just lack the fortitude to do your own killing?

it’s amusing to me you equate inner strength with the slaughter of a defenseless creature

ps killing for sustenance vs killing for sport[/quote]

If the endeavor is truly “sporting”, the creature as you put it is not defenseless. When I boar hunt, we hunt with dogs. Hound crosses to find the game, pit bull dogs to catch. I assure you, the boar is not defenseless. When I send a terrier to ground for a groundhog, racoon or fox, - I assure you, the game is not “defenseless”. In both instances, either pitbull or terrier may not return unscathed, and may not return at all.

Not all hunting constitutes waiting in a tree to ambush bambi :slight_smile: (I fear I just let loose a hunting prejudice).

However, the bigger question from me to you is, respecting your viewpoint for argument’s sake, how do you reconcile that with eating meat? Or using animal products? Isn’t it a slippery slope for you? Or do you believe that under God, there is some heirarchy of animals, or a catalog of “animal rights” where an animal hunted for sport shouldn’t be saraficed but an animal raised and murdered for food (a truly defenseless animal by the way) is okay? Realize, that the minute you start rationalize this belief of yours, you are halfway down that slippery slope!

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Yeah, I feel compelled to more fully elucidate my position on hunting.

As Testy pointed out if one is a true vegan completely abstaining from any type of meat or animal derived products (leather jackets and such) while I may not agree with them, I can more fully respect their position. If one however is a meat eater albeit one who buys their meat at Safeway or some meat serving establishment while at the same time deriding those who hunt, I view them in a hypocritical light.

As others here have stated a stock raised animal has a life I would wish on no creature from the cradle to the grave. Born, fed and fattened, packed in excruciatingly uncomfortable conditions in a stockyard, and finally slaughtered.

A creature such as a deer or elk born and raised in the wild living a free life and naturally endowed with all the instinctive and also learned behaviors to avoid predators and survive, has a much truer life experience then it’s farm raised cousins. It’s life is also filled with peril and can be taken at any moment by a host of natural factors such as lighting, broken leg from a fall, starvation, extreme cold weather and snow, and also predation from mt. lions, bears, coyotes, wolves, and yes, man.

When I hunt big game, I use a primitive weapon (muzzleloader) and hunt in the animals domain on foot with no other help other then my two feet, my weapon, my pack, and my knife. I may walk five to eight miles in day and when an animal is taken it comes out on my back under my own power.

Being in that wild beautiful country and taking my game, my food, in this fashion to me is the ultimate experience putting me in touch with my ancestors who lived this way of life for countless years. It is my part in the circle of life and death which goes on and on in the wild and in civilization.

Again, I can understand and respect those for who it has no meaning and maybe even revulsion. I hope as long as I don’t try to shove it in their faces they can understand my need to be a part of it.

D