You guys are insane with that kind of eating. I cant eat a shit ton but i cant do it every day other wise i blow up
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
You guys are insane with that kind of eating. I cant eat a shit ton but i cant do it every day other wise i blow up
[/quote]
yeah i used to gain fat a lot faster but not so much anymore lol
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
You guys are insane with that kind of eating. I cant eat a shit ton but i cant do it every day other wise i blow up
[/quote]
The goal is to blow up…with most of it being muscle mass. I also tend to believe in the long run, the body becomes more efficient with more calories. When I wasn’t injured, I was holding my heavier body weight with significantly less body fat. That’s one reason I gained some muscle on the way down in weight.
If you want more calories, get some gourmet olive oil with some spices/herbs/whatever shit in it and dump it on your pizza. It’s an easy, delicious way to get in healthy calories.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
You guys are insane with that kind of eating. I cant eat a shit ton but i cant do it every day other wise i blow up
[/quote]
The goal is to blow up…with most of it being muscle mass. I also tend to believe in the long run, the body becomes more efficient with more calories. When I wasn’t injured, I was holding my heavier body weight with significantly less body fat. That’s one reason I gained some muscle on the way down in weight.[/quote]
I actually believe quite the opposite. I believe that the constant feeding and excess calories make the body less efficient with calories. There is no doubt that insulin sensitivity will be reduced, body fat increases and with that more estrogen, metabolism will slow, and blood glucose levels will remain high.
I think an interesting example of this would be how guys respond to food after a contest prep. I think we would all agree that after dieting very diligently, those first weeks you start to eat again you get a great rebound effect. The dieter went through severe under eating (For them and what they are accustomed to) and I would argue that they are then very efficient with their calories when they add food back in. Eventually, the body gets used to the over eating and becomes less efficient and gains slow. Obviously there are a ton of things that contribute to whether you are gaining weight or losing weight but I believe in focusing on insulin sensitivity as one of the more important ones.
[quote]fd24 wrote:
I actually believe quite the opposite.[/quote]
It’s great that you believe that. I will just go on the actual results I saw from doing it for years.
[quote]
I believe that the constant feeding and excess calories make the body less efficient with calories. [/quote]
Someone who is building muscle is becoming more efficient. FACT.
[quote]
There is no doubt that insulin sensitivity will be reduced, body fat increases and with that more estrogen, metabolism will slow, and blood glucose levels will remain high. [/quote]
Insulin sensitivity can be measureably reduced just by eating less overall calories?
Any studies backing that up where someone is still GAINING but notices reduced insulin sensitivity?
You know why you won’t find this?
Want me to tell you why most studies are done on obese people dieting to lose weight and not BODYBUILDERS looking to gain?
[quote]
I think an interesting example of this would be how guys respond to food after a contest prep. I think we would all agree that after dieting very diligently, those first weeks you start to eat again you get a great rebound effect. The dieter went through severe under eating (For them and what they are accustomed to) and I would argue that they are then very efficient with their calories when they add food back in. Eventually, the body gets used to the over eating and becomes less efficient and gains slow. Obviously there are a ton of things that contribute to whether you are gaining weight or losing weight but I believe in focusing on insulin sensitivity as one of the more important ones. [/quote]
?
You are comparing someone in a very deprived state to the difference between eating more or less calories when gaining. That makes no sense. The body will usually supercompensate because the “famine” is over. It will then soon regulate itself. That is what your body does…IT ADAPTS…just like it does to more food intake.
Once again, go ask Synergy if he thinks his several thousand calories a day is holding him back.
I could really see if little guys were commenting here…but we used to be little guys…now we’re not. That was because of the eating going on.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]fd24 wrote:
I actually believe quite the opposite.[/quote]
It’s great that you believe that. I will just go on the actual results I saw from doing it for years.
[quote]
I believe that the constant feeding and excess calories make the body less efficient with calories. [/quote]
Someone who is building muscle is becoming more efficient. FACT.
[quote]
There is no doubt that insulin sensitivity will be reduced, body fat increases and with that more estrogen, metabolism will slow, and blood glucose levels will remain high. [/quote]
Insulin sensitivity can be measureably reduced just by eating less overall calories?
Any studies backing that up where someone is still GAINING but notices reduced insulin sensitivity?
You know why you won’t find this?
Want me to tell you why most studies are done on obese people dieting to lose weight and not BODYBUILDERS looking to gain?
[quote]
I think an interesting example of this would be how guys respond to food after a contest prep. I think we would all agree that after dieting very diligently, those first weeks you start to eat again you get a great rebound effect. The dieter went through severe under eating (For them and what they are accustomed to) and I would argue that they are then very efficient with their calories when they add food back in. Eventually, the body gets used to the over eating and becomes less efficient and gains slow. Obviously there are a ton of things that contribute to whether you are gaining weight or losing weight but I believe in focusing on insulin sensitivity as one of the more important ones. [/quote]
?
You are comparing someone in a very deprived state to the difference between eating more or less calories when gaining. That makes no sense. The body will usually supercompensate because the “famine” is over. It will then soon regulate itself. That is what your body does…IT ADAPTS…just like it does to more food intake.
Once again, go ask Synergy if he thinks his several thousand calories a day is holding him back.
I could really see if little guys were commenting here…but we used to be little guys…now we’re not. That was because of the eating going on.[/quote]
I love how you act like you are the only person that has ever seen progress lol I said I personally disagree and you got all upset and defensive.
Someone who is building muscle and not a ton of fat will be MORE efficient. FACT.
that was tough…
Yes, the body does adapt and you can only force the body to do what it is willing and capable of doing.
Who is synergy? And why does he matter? What does he have to do with the body becoming efficient with food? I said bulking works, but I QUESTION IF IT IS THE BEST METHOD. You do realize that the body can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, so please tell me why you would prefer gaining muscle and fat instead? You can devote some days to fat loss and then some days to being anabolic, some call it toggling, and it works. My point is that someone at let’s say 8-10%bf is going to be more efficient with nutrients compared to someone 15-18%…Why are you taking indigo? Just keep eating more calories and you’ll be more efficient?
[quote]fd24 wrote:
I love how you act like you are the only person that has ever seen progress lol I said I personally disagree and you got all upset and defensive. [/quote]
I wasn’t upset and what is there to get defensive about? No one said I’m the only person to see progress. That wasn’t the point. The point was the guy you are speaking to has made more progress than average…after starting out at a weaker beginning point than many do. That is not something you skip over when the discussion of strategy pops up as far as what builds muscle the fastest.
[quote]
Yes, the body does adapt and you can only force the body to do what it is willing and capable of doing.
Who is synergy? And why does he matter? What does he have to do with the body becoming efficient with food? I said bulking works, but I QUESTION IF IT IS THE BEST METHOD. You do realize that the body can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, so please tell me why you would prefer gaining muscle and fat instead?[/quote]
I’m sorry, but you seem to think that the body grows in some linear fashion. The question you asked just now implies you don’t understand the concept of OPTIMAL growth and the difference between that and simply making any progress at all.
This is not about whether the body is capable of gaining muscle while losing fat. It is about whether the body is gaining THE MOST MUSCLE POSSIBLE IN A GIVEN AMOUNT OF TIME, because that is what it will take to reach an EXTREME level of muscle mass in any reasonable time especially if starting out skinny.
If you need that explained further, simply ask…but you clearly seem unclear on the difference.
[quote]
You can devote some days to fat loss and then some days to being anabolic, some call it toggling, and it works. My point is that someone at let’s say 8-10%bf is going to be more efficient with nutrients compared to someone 15-18%…Why are you taking indigo? Just keep eating more calories and you’ll be more efficient? [/quote]
I’m sorry…please prove that someone simply being a few percentage points leaner somehow changes how efficient they are with nutrients. That is pseudoscience. Simply saying it doesn’t make it so.
just wanted to say that if more people took prof x’s advice and went all in on a bulking phase they would see much more progress. People don’t like to see themselves getting softer after they’ve been spinning their wheels at 10% BF.
However, you should realize that you reach a point where you don’t actually get much softer (It’s mostly water bloat, but ofcourse some fat is to be expected) provided you are training often enough and with enough intensity for muscle growth. And no, you have not been on a bulk if you ate a little too much one weak and couldn’t completely see your lower abs…
[quote]coolusername wrote:
just wanted to say that if more people took prof x’s advice and went all in on a bulking phase they would see much more progress. People don’t like to see themselves getting softer after they’ve been spinning their wheels at 10% BF.
However, you should realize that you reach a point where you don’t actually get much softer (It’s mostly water bloat, but ofcourse some fat is to be expected) provided you are training often enough and with enough intensity for muscle growth. And no, you have not been on a bulk if you ate a little too much one weak and couldn’t completely see your lower abs…[/quote]
x2
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]fd24 wrote:
I love how you act like you are the only person that has ever seen progress lol I said I personally disagree and you got all upset and defensive. [/quote]
I wasn’t upset and what is there to get defensive about? No one said I’m the only person to see progress. That wasn’t the point. The point was the guy you are speaking to has made more progress than average…after starting out at a weaker beginning point than many do. That is not something you skip over when the discussion of strategy pops up as far as what builds muscle the fastest.
[quote]
Yes, the body does adapt and you can only force the body to do what it is willing and capable of doing.
Who is synergy? And why does he matter? What does he have to do with the body becoming efficient with food? I said bulking works, but I QUESTION IF IT IS THE BEST METHOD. You do realize that the body can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, so please tell me why you would prefer gaining muscle and fat instead?[/quote]
I’m sorry, but you seem to think that the body grows in some linear fashion. The question you asked just now implies you don’t understand the concept of OPTIMAL growth and the difference between that and simply making any progress at all.
This is not about whether the body is capable of gaining muscle while losing fat. It is about whether the body is gaining THE MOST MUSCLE POSSIBLE IN A GIVEN AMOUNT OF TIME, because that is what it will take to reach an EXTREME level of muscle mass in any reasonable time especially if starting out skinny.
If you need that explained further, simply ask…but you clearly seem unclear on the difference.
Too your earlier point, if you workout and go carbless until the next day the body will wait in a highly insulin sensitive state and maintain the capacity to achieve full glycogen compensation, thus increasing nutrient repartitioning, thus supercompensating for that lack of nutrients provided post workout. So yes, not the exact same as post-contest rebound, but I was merely referring to how both were in a severely depleted state. Someone doing day long fasts would be very depleted and probably comparable to someone dieting for a show.
So you are the man who defined optimal growth? Seeing as though bodybuilding is subjective and everyone has different goals? I know the body doesn’t grow linearly, that’s basic, and I never said it did. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about if you think that someone’s body fat doesn’t matter at all in how they handle nutrients, how on earth could you think that? You seem to be caught up on this issue of doing it as fast as possible, but if I recall you are in your 30’s and still haven’t competed so I suppose your method isn’t quite as quick? I have been able to see how my body responds to food at 16%+ bf and 8% or lower, it is noticeable. You can’t deny that with gaining a lot of weight and some fat that hormone levels can change as can insulin sensitivity, etc. But you think these don’t matter?
You are also ignoring the part of the process where you then diet down. Losing that fat will be difficult, may require cardio and a real reduction in calories (depending on person), some hold onto muscle better than others, some will lose a great deal of size…that can’t be OPTIMAL for growth can it? So the months you spend dieting down are you making progress or focusing on losing fat? Maybe you would prefer dropping cals and doing cardio, I prefer never doing cardio, not having to focus on keeping my calories low, and can dedicate some days to fat loss and some days to trying to gain.
But if you believe that being leaner doesn’t help with nutrient repartitioning then I guess we won’t ever agree so no reason to keep going.
[quote]fd24 wrote:
Too your earlier point, if you workout and go carbless until the next day the body will wait in a highly insulin sensitive state and maintain the capacity to achieve full glycogen compensation, thus increasing nutrient repartitioning, thus supercompensating for that lack of nutrients provided post workout. So yes, not the exact same as post-contest rebound, but I was merely referring to how both were in a severely depleted state. Someone doing day long fasts would be very depleted and probably comparable to someone dieting for a show.
[/quote]
Yeah, that would be bullshit. Someone not eating for a day is NOTHING like someone dieting down and using diuretics to eek out the last drop of fluid from their body and carrying that on for 3-4 months or longer.
If it were, you would be seeing massive 20lbs weight gains of mostly water and lean body mass after such an “ordeal”.
[quote]
So you are the man who defined optimal growth? Seeing as though bodybuilding is subjective and everyone has different goals? I know the body doesn’t grow linearly, that’s basic, and I never said it did. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about if you think that someone’s body fat doesn’t matter at all in how they handle nutrients[/quote]
Gee, didn’t say it doesn’t matter at all. I said small differences in body fat percentage do not cause some measurably drastic effect how efficient you are with nutrients. Your genetics decided that along with how you train.
[quote]
, how on earth could you think that? You seem to be caught up on this issue of doing it as fast as possible, but if I recall you are in your 30’s and still haven’t competed so I suppose your method isn’t quite as quick?[/quote]
? What does competition have to do with this? I have other goals in life than getting on stage specifically. You see, that’s what I’ve been doing most of my life…getting a real education that allows me to discuss these issues concerning biology with authority.
[quote]
I have been able to see how my body responds to food at 16%+ bf and 8% or lower, it is noticeable. You can’t deny that with gaining a lot of weight and some fat that hormone levels can change as can insulin sensitivity, etc. But you think these don’t matter?[/quote]
Comparing the body fat percentages of someone who is obese to those of someone lean is NOT the same as comparing someone at “15% body fat” to someone who is “10%”.
[quote]
You are also ignoring the part of the process where you then diet down. Losing that fat will be difficult, may require cardio and a real reduction in calories (depending on person), some hold onto muscle better than others, some will lose a great deal of size…that can’t be OPTIMAL for growth can it?[/quote]
Uhm…yeah, it kinda is if someone gains 100lbs of lean body mass in the process.
[quote]
So the months you spend dieting down are you making progress or focusing on losing fat? Maybe you would prefer dropping cals and doing cardio, I prefer never doing cardio, not having to focus on keeping my calories low, and can dedicate some days to fat loss and some days to trying to gain. [/quote]
I haven’t done much cardio the last few months and lost 5" off my waist. All of the muscle apparently helped.
Further, since you brought up competing for no reason earlier, anyone with that goal would obviously ALSO be dieting down for months at a time and that is simply a part of the process.
Who do you know of who gets into contest shape with NO contest prep?
Some may “grow into a show”, but they are few and far between and at the pro level, this is usually related directly to drug use.
[quote]
But if you believe that being leaner doesn’t help with nutrient repartitioning then I guess we won’t ever agree so no reason to keep going. [/quote]
No, I asked for STUDIES that show simply being a few percentage points leaner means you process food differently.
Please…post them.
Also, I am not continuing this with Fd24. If anyone wants to actually discuss this, let’s do it. Optimal muscle mass can not logically be gained if you are eating in a restrictive manner. If your body fat percentage is your main concern, yes, I dooubt whether you are gaining the most muscle possible at any given time.
As I said, if you don’t believe that being leaner helps nutrition repartitioning than we will never agree. You haven’t really discussed any real biology so you don’t need to state for the millionth time that you have a science degree. I also do, but I don’t need to tell people about it non-stop. I’m also done discussing this.
please continue guys, i’ll just grab some popcorn and enjoy more BS that fd24 is spelling.
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
please continue guys, i’ll just grab some popcorn and enjoy more BS that fd24 is spelling.[/quote]
Judging by your pictures I can see that you don’t agree with me. If anything, your physique helps my point as you don’t even look like you lift. Now this is where you say you don’t care about how you look, just performance. And then I say bullshit. And then you go back to posting 2,000 times on a bodybuilding site when you clearly know nothing.
I have to agree that when I am lean, or relatively lean, I feel as though I handle my food much better. I can increase carbohydrates and cheat meals without feeling lethargic or gaining much weight. I find it easiest to build muscle when I’m around 10% body fat. I believe Shelby recommends that you always at least see the outline of your abs. I like Shelby’s diet tips for the most part. My two cents.