Hi. Why does MD6 has a 5:1 caffeine to ephedrine ratio instead of the 10:1 radio shown on most research??? Thanks for your help.
bump
Brock would best be able to answer this,
since he formulated the product.
My guess is that it’s because product
efficacy is reduced quite a bit if users
feel they can’t use it towards the end
of the day, and a high caffeine content
may make people unable to take the product
past the early or late part of the afternoon
depending on the person.
I personally prefer a higher caffeine content
and when dieting often add caffeine; but then
again I just like caffeine.
As to the fact that research studies used
a given ratio, from what I’ve seen, they
never established, nor tried to, that there
was any particular advantage to that ratio
compared to others. Instead, it’s just
the ratio they happened to pick, so far
as I can tell.
There’s one study, from that Astrup guy, that analized different ratios and determined that 10:1 was optimum. I don’t remember the name of that study, but I’m searching it right now. …Brock, can you help?
The body doesn’t really work on ratios (in almost all cases) but rather according to amounts. For example, if maximum dose of ephedrine per day in the study were limited to say 50 mg/day, then sure, 500 mg/day caffeine would yield more results than a smaller amount. From this you might conclude that a “ratio” of 10:1 is “optimum” but that doesn’t mean that, for example, 75 mg/day ephedrine and 500 mg/day caffeine wouldn’t be more effective yet, while being a lower ratio.
Would 750 mg/day caffeine to go along with the 75 mg/day ephedrine be more effective yet? Maybe, but maybe it would be too much caffeine and therefore inadvisable. This is simply an example.
Anyway, I’ve gone and checked the MD6 label
and it turns out that it’s the 10:1 ratio
ANYWAY! 10 mg/day ephedra alkaloids per 100 mg caffeine.
So if you have concluded that 10:1 is “optimum” (actually, what is optimum depends on needs and will vary) MD6 is already optimum.
check MD6’s supplement facts again and you’ll notice a 10:1 ratio of caffeine to ephedrine. Each 2 capsules contain 100mg of caffeine and 10mg of ephedrine (among other things). My only quam with the new formula is why include such a small dosage of L-tyrosine and why use yohimbine if it increases the negative side effects of ephedrine. I think the old formula is better w/ the nor-ephed, you just have to add some 5-HTP.
Would it have anything to do with the fact that caffeine (and stimulants in general) reduces insulin sensitivity? Because MD6 is intended to be used multiple times per day, and insulin control may be the most important component of successful dieting, it makes sense to spread out dosages in order to maximize the effect while altering insulin sensitivity as little as possible.
Now I’m confused, Bill. biotestedge.com says that two capsules is 100mg caffeine and 20mg ephedrine. I was talking about ratios, but the study talks about quantities: 200c/20e, 100c/20e (MD6),200c/10e. It says that the thermogenic effect is larger with 200/20. I have never bought MD6, so maybe there is a typo on biotestedge.com… please clear this out. Thanks for your help.
Ramses, it does seem there’s at least
an inconsistency on the biotestedge.com
webpage. The article text does say 20 mg
ephedra alkaloids, as you pointed out, but
the reproduction of the product label
(which can be found by clicking on “supplement
facts” says 10 mg.) An obvious error somewhere
that obviously hadn’t been spotted by anyone
at Biotest and I’ll point it out.
I’d guess the reproduction of the label is
the correct one. I’ll look at a bottle of
MD6 at next opportunity.
The study you mention really doesn’t prove
anything with regards to ratio though. If the
quantities tested were 200c/20e, 100c/20e (MD6),200c/10e, what’s the suprrise that the
one with the most of each did the most? 
What’s really desired is amounts that reach
the flattening-out part of the dose response curve, or if relevant the response/side effects curve, at about the same time.
Scott, yohimbine does increase the tachycardia side effect of ephedrine, but decreases the anti-erectile side effect. It’s entirely plausible, and I’m supposing Brock decided it is the case, that some ratio would provide synergistic benefit of fat loss exceeding
any adverse effect of combining the two. With more yohimbine that might not be the case – increased adverse side effects could exceed any benefit – but I’m assuming Brock felt that the chosen dose gave more benefit than adverse effect. Certainly adverse effect is not generally being reported from MD6.
I asked Tim Patterson about it, which cleared
the dosage question up.
MD6 is, as you said, 20 mg ephedra alkaloids
per serving.
The current labels, and the article text,
referred to taking two capsules (20 mg). The old
label referred to one capsule (10 mg.)
Again, I’m not the designer, but my guess
is, since MD6 is typically taken twice per
day or even three times, Brock felt 40-60
mg/day of ephedrine was appropriate for
typical users but did not feel 400-600 mg/day
of caffeine was generally appropriate,
as a 10:1 ratio would mandate.
And 200c/40e or 300c/60e could reasonably
be expected to be
more effective than the 200c/20e dosing
looked at in the study you cite.
Let’s say that Brock’s estimate of maximum
reasonable caffeine dosing for people in
general (not caffeine junkies like me)
is correct. In that case, if the 10:1
ratio were followed, dosing would be only
200c/20e (instead of 200c/40e) or 300c/30e
(instead of 300c/60e.)
Would this really be more efficacious?
Of course not, “wrong” ratio notwithstanding.