I can see how you would feel this way. But in what important ways does it differ from the ‘unfair advantages’ regarding testosterone metabolism, muscle mass, leverages, etc, that some cis-gendered women enjoy over other cis-gendered women? For example, let’s pretend there was a cis-gendered competitor of yours who, labs revealed, enjoyed double your test levels (naturally; she’s drug-free) and had double the number of test receptors on her muscles. (In other words, she’s a genetic marvel tailor-made for PLing.) Is it any more or less fair that you have to compete against her vs competing against a MTF TG who may have higher test levels, and may have more muscle mass?
(BTW, this is an actual question, not a statement-of-opinion masquerading as one.)
You have the great good luck of not having to worry about any of it, though. Some people (to bring this back to Janae Kroc) don’t have that leisure. And it impacts those of us in their sphere, whether via bathrooms or PLing meets.
It’s hard for me to understand people who don’t recognize the benefit of their having been born with everything sort of arranged to fit society’s preferences. It’s just such an unearned blessing. I have a handful of lesbian friends, and the single ones are miserable trying to find long term partners due to the scarcity of suitable prospects (i.e. right age range, educational attainment, financials, etc). Whereas I strolled out and found a dozen suitable (by the above criteria) men almost immediately, and was able to select one. Being a feminine straight female, both in appearance and personality, is not a choice I made, but it is one of the two best possible outcomes in our society, the other being a masculine straight male with appearance and personality to match.
No. You are missing the point, as everyone else seems to be doing.
The point is that we are different, you and I, man and woman. And that difference is not a bad thing. It’s not even a weird thing. It’s just a natural thing. And I’m pretty sure that you, and certainly Powerpuff, and even Ksnapp, with whom I usually disagree, can agree that we genuinely are.
No. My beef with ED is something else entirely. Go back and read. Really read, and look at the very weird arguments that are being presented. If you can do that, and you still agree with him, and not me, then I would love to hear where it is you and I part ways. I mean it.
You and I are completely different, which works very well for each of us, I suspect, but not all men and women are like us. Some people are somewhere in between, neither me nor you, and ED is trying to advance their stories/issues/points of view, along with research exploring the issues created by their lack of clear or distinct (as you and I experience it) gender.
So it’s not just “men” like you and “women” like me. That’s where those of us to whom ED makes sense part ways with you. We see more gray area than you do. But I don’t see him as advancing arguments at the moment, necessarily. I see him exploring the question of transpeople and sports.
EyeDentist: You must read the short story Harrison Bergeron if you have not done so.
I fully recognize that we are not created equal with regards to muscle mass, bone structure, T levels, beauty, intellect . . . You name it. Truthfully, I’m not naturally built for powerlifting. Why I fell in love with the sport I’ll never know.
However, there is a huge difference between competing against women who were born with decent muscle mass and naturally high T levels and competing against women who are M to F transgenders or on PEDs. Interestingly, I compete in two federations: one tested and one untested. Even as a 50+ woman, my numbers are not good enough to qualify for national-level competition in the untested fed but qualify handily in the tested fed.
And I would argue that even the most naturally strong women in tested federations rarely approximate the women in untested feds. With a few rogue exceptions, it’s the women in untested federations who rise to the top of Powerlifting Watch rankings.
So yes. I should have to compete head to head against women who are born naturally with more muscle fibers, more stalwart bone structures, and more advantageous leverages. But I shouldn’t have to compete against women who are stronger via synthetic methodology.
Women who take PEDs are doing so to enhance their athletic performance. In contrast, MTF TGs take meds that degrade their athletic performance. You seem to be equating these two groups, which strikes me as misleading.
But setting that aside, and if you don’t mind, I’d like to ask you to expand on your assertion that “there is a huge difference between competing against women who were born with decent muscle mass and naturally high T levels and competing against women who are M to F transgenders.” That is, it’s not clear to me what that ‘huge difference’ is. Can you explain further?
Again, it is fair and appropriate to say that female PED users are employing “synthetic methodology” to get stronger. But as I pointed out above, synthetic methodologies employed by MTF TGs only make them weaker. So they shouldn’t be excluded on this basis, should they?
ED? No. But again, I’m a feminine woman who struggles to gain muscle with genuine sustained effort. Janet Reno in her prime, at 6’2" and with a larger-boned physique, may have had a better shot at it, I don’t know. She certainly would have been able to take ME in a fight. I don’t know what ED does for cardio, but it would be nice to think that I could outrun him, since I can’t kick his ass should the need arise. I am, after all, a dedicated runner and possessed of relatively slight build and long legs, which confer advantage. However, sad experience tells me that men who don’t run but are in moderately decent shape can beat me in a short race.
Still, that doesn’t say anything about people less gender-distinct than I am or my past running challengers are.
EyeDentist: You’re right that equating transgender females and women on PEDs is invalid.
I just think competitors should be able to assume they are playing/competing against others who are following the same rules. And then whoever rises to the top (wins) has the most talent (or the best day).
Without drugs, a female trans is naturally male and endowed with the strength benefits of such. Even with synthetic hormones to dumb down their strength, M to F transgendered individuals have a baseline strength benefit, by your own admission.
Actually, the research found a benefit with respect to the amount of muscle, not strength per se. Of course, all else being equal, someone with a greater volume of muscle will be stronger. However, that person will be heavier as well. What this particular research did not address was whether a MTF TG person (s/p castration for 1+ years) enjoys a pound-for-pound strength benefit. (Whether such a study has been performed, I have no idea.) And this is the question that goes to the issue of fairness in weight-division sports such PLing.
Greater total amount of muscle fibers resulting in significant differences in strength
And the resultant more resilient tendon and ligament structure necessary to support this system
Among other differences that cause significant, PERMANENT changes in the body
As well as other INNATE advantages that manifest themselves even BEFORE pubescence.
ED is you guys’ version of Headhunter, so nothing that comes out of his mouth at this point surprises me, but I am genuinely surprised to see you supporting these dumb notions.
Not only is it dumb, but it actually, in the real world that we live in right now, disenfranchises wome. Women, who worked damn hard to get to the point that they got to. Women, who now have all that hard work dismissed and given to a man who doesn’t even have to cut his dick off to take it from them.
Dumb.
And more dumb that not one person arguing for this dumbness is willing to address the differences I’ve listed multiple times now, again above. Your bias is showing like the bulge In a trans athlete’s spandex tights.