Have you considered that the lack of a response might have something to do with the manner in which you choose to express yourself?
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Is strength dependent solely upon muscle?
Are there no other factors that contribute?
Dumb.
Headhunter level dumb.
Probably it has more to do with your inability to address the very simple facts I’ve put forth than it does your whiny pretention to occupy some more noble plane than troglodytes like me.
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Again:
Overall body size difference of 15%
Greater bone density
Greater total amount of muscle fibers resulting in significant differences in strength
And the resultant more resilient tendon and ligament structure necessary to support this system
Among other differences that cause significant, PERMANENT changes in the body
As well as other INNATE advantages that manifest themselves even BEFORE pubescence.
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Who is “no one”? I feel that ED is arguing this one virtually alone, with disagreement coming from both sides of the bathroom debate aisle.
Sure, and I wish someone had done something about the train wreck going on at my house. But no one knew that I was at-risk for any number of bad outcomes, including poor focus - I ultimately dropped out of high school, and in fact my school administration suggested that I do it.*
And that’s sad, but that’s life. People can’t know what they don’t know. But SOME things we do know, or can make educated guesses about. Where we can prevent unnecessary grief for people, shouldn’t we?
*That’s how bad ass I am. I was asked (practically begged!) to leave school. So don’t mess with me. : )
This stood out to me.
The pivotal question is this: can reassigned transsex-
uals compete fairly with others of their new sex? Our
data are limited and do not provide insight into all
pertinent aspects. In competitive sports, in all likeli-
hood, small differences may be critical for winning or
losing. Our analysis is not refined enough to detect
these small differences, allowing only an approxi-
mation.
There is overlap between men and women in terms of athletic ability. The men on the bottom of the bell curve may be less athletic than the women at the top, but that’s irrelevant when it comes to competitive sports where you are looking at the best - the top of the curve - in both.
If a young Bruce Jenner had decided to become MTF TG in the high point of his athletic life, he was starting at a point that was off the curve in terms of competing with other men. Zero overlap with the women’s times. I can’t imagine everyone saying “You go girl!” to a twenty-something Caitlin Jenner who came in and won all the Women’s Olympic Track and Field events. As the authors pointed out, when it comes down to this kind of competition, very small differences make the difference between being a winner and a looser.
Now, if Kroc wants to join a city league women’s softball team, I’d say “You go for it, Janae.” The stakes are low. If he said, I’m going to compete in women’s PLing, I’d say, “That’s a total jerk move.” He’s said he would not compete with women in lifting.
A lot of TG people aren’t star athletes. Some nonathletic boy who goes out for girl’s volleyball isn’t going to attract much attention.
BUT as I said earlier, it’s not politically correct to complain about any of this, so other than a few parents feeling like their daughters were unfairly bested by someone who has spent maybe 18 years of their life as a male, there will be zero attention. As a society, we’ll step on some individuals and feel like it’s for the greater good. I have a young Latina student who just got a full-ride scholarship including room and board to study astrophysics. Great kid. As a teacher, I’m thrilled. Are there young men who can best her on every level? Yes.
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Power, did/do you oppose Title IX? Because it unquestionably had the effect of reducing opportunities for males.
Yes, Puff. The bolded sentence makes a good point.
Cortez: I believe EyeDentist is pretty much in his own corner on this one. I, too, mentioned bone structure as an inherent difference in addition to musculature before you entered the discussion. And of course there are other differences as well.
I gotta say, I admire your perseverance, EyeDentist, in defending what seems like a pretty untenable position.
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To be honest, I’m not sure what position you think I’m defending, because I don’t think I’m staking out anything particularly controversial or untenable.
Sorry, Em, I got the impression that you were agreeing with ED that there is no inherent unfairness in TG biological males who have undergone hormone therapy competing against biological females.
Was I mistaken?
Those little condescending comments, more than any other thing, are what irritate me about this guy. There are tons of folks on PWI that are on the other side of a HUGE, yawning cavernous philosophical crevasse from me, and we tend to get along pretty well despite our spending most of our time telling one how stupid the other is. And my tone is no different there than it is here. At the end of the day, I’d be happy to have a beer with most of them.
It’s a log cabin in the woods, with good bourbon and cigars. Not a dainty little tea party with lace doilies and raised pinkies.
Yes. I agree with you regarding athletic competition. I don’t agree with you about the danger of transpeople in bathrooms.
I may think that a fully (surgically) transitioned person should be allowed to compete, but I haven’t decided yet. Sure as hell I expect any transgendered person allowed to compete in the Olympics as the opposite sex to have gone all in with the transition. Hormone therapy alone would absolutely not be enough for me. But I’m still uncomfortable with that, so I don’t know.
I think the problem I have is not with calling the argument or position dumb, as Cortes is doing. My problem is with an attack on the person him- or herself, and particularly when it leads to a jeering pile-on.
“I find your argument laughable/stupid/insane” is perfectly fine, in my book. Hints that the writer is gay - used as an insult - are not.
Um, I agree with you about athletic competition. I’m still on bathrooms and other “no-stakes” acceptances of people’s choices, i.e. “why make it harder than it already is?”
But competition at high levels moves way beyond the general courtesy and humanity I would like to see exercised.
However, I do see that the athletic thing is a quagmire. Let’s say someone transitions in high school and applies to college as the non-bio gender. How is anyone going to know that “Sarah” was born as Sam? Are we strip searching during tryouts? I’m not sure there’s any real preventing the mixing of trans and non-trans prior until an athlete hits blood-testing levels of competition.