KillerDIRK, do you believe that Krock having sex with a woman is homosexual lesbian sex?
Do you disagree with the feminist stance that gender roles don’t dictate how a woman acts, dresses, thinks, est? (Basically, that these things are gender independent)
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]jasmincar wrote:
Some people here are twisting the meaning of intolerance and bigotry. You are intolerant or a bigot when you don’t accept someone for what he is while doing no harm to anyone. Not accepting someone who murder or rape isn’t being intolerant. Being tolerant is letting people do their own thing and be what they are, even if you despised by it and will never have any business with it, because it doesn’t affect you in any bad way.
[/quote]
some need to spend a little time in a dictionary, and not make up their own definitions of words.
And by some people, I mean you.
You might want to pour over connotation and denotation for awhile, and think as much as you feel. [/quote]
There is no connotation in what I said about bigotry. I just expanded on what bigotry is. Condoning something isn’t being a bigot. That’s not the same thing.
What you wrote isn’t what people are talking about when they are talking about bigotry in general and in this context.
To me that sounds like a rationalisation. Since society now condone things it didn’t before, according to my unfitting definition of bigotry the society is bigot, therefore I live in a bigot society and I can be a bigot too in my own way and be ok.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I respect the lifting and nutrition knowledge of Kroc. Kroc is a far greater lifter (and certainly bodybuilder) than I ever was or will be. I’ve enjoyed his articles and learned from them.
I also defend Kroc’s right to believe he is a woman, to pick his name, to wear a dress, and to even go around pretending he is a woman. That’s his business not mine. I would have totally ignored his situation but for his making things public. That’s “tolerance.”
I, however, reject, as matter of both science and faith, that he is anything but an amazingly huge man in a dress.
Yes, biology and sex is sometimes a spectrum, but Kroc was not a hermaphrodite dancing on the grey edge. Kroc is a dude. An impressive dude, in fact.
What he has are mental problems and/or kinks where he likes to wear dresses and pretend he is a lesbian.
This is not intolerant, nor “homophobic” (the dumbest word I’ve ever heard), nor any of the other stupid phrases used to shut down intelligent conversation.
He’s a dude. In a dress.
I tolerate his choice. I am certainly not going to try to stop him (or any other dude that wants to wear a dress). To the contrary, I defend his right to make such a silly choice.
What is intolerant and “phobic” are those who are afraid of the decisions of liked-minded people as myself, who can see this nonsense for a silly choice and whose decisions rest on basic biology and 4,000 years of Judaeo-Christian teachings.
Inevitably, we will be shouted down, called names, and well, not “tolerated” for daring to hold un-PC beliefs.
The Tolerance Movement," if it was a real movement, would leave people alone (e.g., the poor Christian wedding couple who are being persecuted for their religious beliefs in the USA), just as we leave others alone.
[/quote]
I concur. I talked to Kroc once and awhile and told him recently that I still respect him for all his service/advice/help. Nevertheless, here you speak truth.
[quote]Johnny T Frisk wrote:
I don’t really give a shit about any of this garbage, I did however have to unfollow his facebook page today. I mean if I started following it for lifting why would I keep following when now and I’m assuming for the rest of its existence nothing but tranny selfies. [/quote]
Well, you should see my facebook timeline. I have several gay cousins that decided that they are trannies (these are the people that just want attention (they have always wanted attention even when they dated women)). And, so I get a ton of tranny selfies.
At least now I can mess with my bros and ask them if “she” is hot and then let them know they think dudes are hot. So, I guess that is one good thing about having trannies for family members.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]jasmincar wrote:
Some people here are twisting the meaning of intolerance and bigotry. You are intolerant or a bigot when you don’t accept someone for what he is while doing no harm to anyone. Not accepting someone who murder or rape isn’t being intolerant. Being tolerant is letting people do their own thing and be what they are, even if you despised by it and will never have any business with it, because it doesn’t affect you in any bad way.
[/quote]
some need to spend a little time in a dictionary, and not make up their own definitions of words.
And by some people, I mean you.
You might want to pour over connotation and denotation for awhile, and think as much as you feel. [/quote]
It’s like talking to big bag of dicks in here.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Seriously, Does Kroc really have 58" shoulders? I’m telling you, the tailoring alone is going to be expensive.
[/quote]
I am size 54 tall, and Kroc looks a lot bigger than me (to me) so I just picked a number. [/quote]
54-56 actually. https://www.reddit.com/r/weightroom/comments/mtzfg/iama_i_am_powerlifter_bodybuilder_and_allaround/c33uzoj
[quote]OldOgre wrote:
So, if I still do his rows, does that make me gay or anything?[/quote]
Makes you lesbian. As I am lesbian. I know change my sexual orientation to Alpha Male lesbian.
[quote]killerDIRK wrote:
[quote]CLUNK wrote:
[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
I find it fairly amusing how many people confidently call Kroc silly or insane - probably without ever having educated themselves on the finer details of transgender issues. This is no better than seventeen-year old Euro hippies bashing ‘America’.[/quote]
Agree. A whole lotta armchair psychologists up in here.
[/quote]
Ok, a little friday morning education for everyone here.
#1. Jewbacca, although I may disagree with you and beans on many fronts, I would rather educate you as a friend, then be considered a “hater” because we do not see eye to eye.
#2. When a person seeks to transition from one gender to the other, there are many steps one must take. These include almost in order: Seeking out proper medical consultation for a period of One Year consistently with a psychiatrist trained in gender issues. Attending support groups when necessary. Having and showing one is capable of providing for self sufficiency with a full time job and or part time job and school. They are allowed to start on hormones after a period of three months into their psychological councelling with the proper supervision of the primary psychiatrist. They must dress as the gender that they identify with 24/7/365. They may not have any surgery whatsoever until their first full year is done.
Mcincinatti: It’s interesting-to the same extent you “have to accept a fantasy as true”- an atheist likely feels the same way about a person who is religious. Where I don’t follow your logic is in the “have to accept”-by your own words you don’t accept it, as you stated.
Being an atheist, I like the way you phased this. Also, I am not asking anyone to “have to accept” who or what I am. To be honest, I would actually prefer to never be noticed, nor leave a trace on the earth…anything more than necessary.
For DeStrength:
Do you feel like it is a mental disorder? What do you think about the high correlation of transexuality and having mental disorders nonrelated to transexuality?
I believe that it is a disconnect of some type within the brain, yes.
I would have to dig deeper into the correlation between differing types of mental disorders.
Why do you use such special snowflake terms as “gender fluid”, and “queer”?
I do not believe it is a “special snowflake” issue as much as a way to try to define the what, where, when, why and how of the situation for the layperson to understand. Because we just Love to try to define something and place it into that little box we call our greymatter.
I also like to OWN those words and by doing so, they cause no distress.
I am going to catch no end of shit for this, but it is similar in nature to those of African dissent calling within themselves “niggers” but find it completely Offensive (and rightly so) when some backcounty cracker calls them that.
Have you ever had suicidal thoughts because of your condition and corresponding conditions?
Yes I have. The incidence of suicide within the entire lgbtq community is magnitudes of times greater than in the general population. quite possibly the only group with a higher incidence of suicide are dentists in Seattle.
The statistics are that 65% of the lgbtq community have at one time or another has attempted to commit suicide.
When you feel that you have absolutely no one to support you, no friends to comfort you, and believe that you are the one special little snowflake with these feelings…there are times that the overwhelming sense of uugh takes you to an end.
What do you think about the fact that if you were born a few decades earlier or even earlier that in almost any part of the world you would either be killed or placed in a mental institution?
This has crossed my mind during my life. I am thankful that I was not burned for being a witch in Salem, tourtured during the spanish inquisition, fed to the lions during the Holy roman empire…et al. Gee, all the above done in the name of religion ? Go figure.
I find it fairly amusing how many people confidently call Kroc silly or insane - probably without ever having educated themselves on the finer details of transgender issues. This is no better than seventeen-year old Euro hippies bashing ‘America’.
And that is the basic problem with most things nighthawk. People either do Not want to take the time to know, or chose to remain ignorant that something very different from their perspective of life could actually exist and thrive.
A Marine, actually.
Meaning that she, more so than Caitlyn Jenner, has earned the right to be called “brave”.
I give her the greatest respect in the world. I being what and who I am, really would prefer if we did not do the great “smack in the face”. Most of us just want to go on with our silly little lives and live as peacefully as possible.
please keep the questions coming.
Ignorance is more dangerous the Intelligence.
remember though that this is my experience, yours will differ accordingly.
[/quote]
Alright, thanks for the polite responses. I had thought some of my questions would’ve been taken the wrong way, but I was definitely pleasantly surprised.
Now that those have been answered, do you mind if I ask additional questions?
I don’t think you had mentioned which gender you had transitioned to. (or if you have) If you have transitioned, how did the hormone therapy affect your thinking? Did it make you weepy, more emotional, more aggressive, less aggressive, change how ambitious you are, etc?
How was growing up trans/bi, when did you leave the closet?
What prevented you from trying to take your life, or have you tried before?
How has your condition affected your life negatively?
Also, to comment on what I said earlier: I think all of the non binary terms are rather weird and off putting. Anytime I hear genderfluid, or anything similar I think of some angsty 16 year old white girl on tumblr with a smug attitude. I can certainly get people being transexual, bi, and gay, but anything else is… weird in my opinion.
Final question, I promise: do you consider yourself trans, or something in between since you used the term genderfluid?
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
If the person is MORE psychically integrated after the change, they were hardly “delusional.”
[/quote]
No, that means the treatment for the mental illness alleviated the more problematic symptoms of the problem for that person.
For example, I have an elderly great uncle who has Alzheimer’s. He frequently demands to see his sister, claiming she was “just there.”
Well, his sister died in Dachau circa 1944. She was dragged from his arms at the train station for the “showers.”
When he is very agitated, we’ve sometimes played along to calm him down – the merits of this approach being debatable (it’s considered a bad approach by most elder care experts who say “playing along” makes things worse), but you sometimes do what you have to do.
Regardless, neither his muddled mind, nor our playing along with his delusion, bring his sister back from the dead.
She’s still dead, and Kroc, regardless if his symptoms are alleviated by wearing a dress, is still a man.
And please, don’t get me wrong — I am not debating there very well may be a serious involuntary issue with gender confused people. I have no idea, not is it any of my business.
Where I disagree is that I (and similar like-minded people) have to accept a fantasy as true, ignore an obvious mental illness as normal, or be considered a “hater.”
[/quote]
Don’t look now, but you just proved my point.
When someone is truly delusional (like your uncle), no amount of “playing along,” or play-acting can truly alleviate what that person is experiencing. The delusion will continue to manifest in some form or another no matter how you try to cover it up. If (in the case of a transexual) transitioning DOES alleviate the person’s intra-psychic angst and pain, it wasn’t a delusion in the first place, but rather a legitimate problem, based in reality, that has now been solved.
What I think you misunderstand is that I am NOT saying that none of those who claim to be transexuals is delusional. In fact, I’m not coming down on one side or the other of this whole debate. I am simply saying that, based on basic psychology and treatment principles, if an individual’s disorder can be cured by transitioning, then it was not some simple delusion. If that individual can truly become happier and more functional, then claiming that the transition is just a “band-aid” that feeds into the delusion is silly.
Now, I am stating that I don’t have a horse in this race, but that IF the person can be made truly happier, more functional, and psychically integrated, then basic psychology says that you have solved the problem. If not, then there’s something else that is problematic in the person’s pysche – possible that delusion that you have posited. I make these statements based on having a counseling degree and 8 years experience working with seriously mentally ill and other troubled individuals.
What I don’t get is how you can be making such definitive statements about all of this.
With all due respect, as bright and insightful as you can be my friend, from here it looks as though your need to see everything through the values and the lens of your religion is distorting what you see.
[/quote]
Alright, I don’t have a horse in this race either. A person’s body is their business. However, I was hoping you could clarify something for me. From a therapeutic perspective what limits, if any, are placed on the line of reasoning that says, “I identify as ‘X’ even though I was born as ‘Y’. Living as ‘X’ causes me to feel more integrated and experience less existensial angst, therefore it is the best choice for me,”?
Many people at one time or another experience significant internal disonance with some aspect of their identity that they didn’t choose. Be it gender, family, race, appearance, sexual orientation, ability or whatever.
Some people passionately believe that they were born in the wrong time or place to the point where they have difficulty functioning in the here and now. It seems to be part of the human condition to feel somehow out of place, to reject some fundamental aspect(s) of who we are.
Is it a viable therapeutic approach to decide to “transition” into some-one/where/thing else if it makes you feel better? Genuine question. It’s something I have a difficult time understanding. I grew up with the idea that you are who/what you are and one of the main goals in life is to make peace with who/whatever that is and play it to your best advantage. I have a difficult time grasping how rejecting your physical self to the point where you (in the absence of medical issues) surgically alter it in an effort to change who you are is a path to greater happiness and integration. Again, it’s your body, have at it. I just can’t get there.
Not saying it isn’t so for some people, I don’t know one way or the other. I just find it a bit baffling. I expect many people, including and perhaps especially those struggling with these issues themselves find it a touch baffling as well.
In a backward-ass moment of me having to play the parent to stop my mother from talking shit on Bruce Jenner’s face lift because it’s none of her fucking business, I will add this:
It’s none of your fucking business. Let people do what they do.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
If the person is MORE psychically integrated after the change, they were hardly “delusional.”
[/quote]
No, that means the treatment for the mental illness alleviated the more problematic symptoms of the problem for that person.
For example, I have an elderly great uncle who has Alzheimer’s. He frequently demands to see his sister, claiming she was “just there.”
Well, his sister died in Dachau circa 1944. She was dragged from his arms at the train station for the “showers.”
When he is very agitated, we’ve sometimes played along to calm him down – the merits of this approach being debatable (it’s considered a bad approach by most elder care experts who say “playing along” makes things worse), but you sometimes do what you have to do.
Regardless, neither his muddled mind, nor our playing along with his delusion, bring his sister back from the dead.
She’s still dead, and Kroc, regardless if his symptoms are alleviated by wearing a dress, is still a man.
And please, don’t get me wrong — I am not debating there very well may be a serious involuntary issue with gender confused people. I have no idea, not is it any of my business.
Where I disagree is that I (and similar like-minded people) have to accept a fantasy as true, ignore an obvious mental illness as normal, or be considered a “hater.”
[/quote]
Don’t look now, but you just proved my point.
When someone is truly delusional (like your uncle), no amount of “playing along,” or play-acting can truly alleviate what that person is experiencing. The delusion will continue to manifest in some form or another no matter how you try to cover it up. If (in the case of a transexual) transitioning DOES alleviate the person’s intra-psychic angst and pain, it wasn’t a delusion in the first place, but rather a legitimate problem, based in reality, that has now been solved.
What I think you misunderstand is that I am NOT saying that none of those who claim to be transexuals is delusional. In fact, I’m not coming down on one side or the other of this whole debate. I am simply saying that, based on basic psychology and treatment principles, if an individual’s disorder can be cured by transitioning, then it was not some simple delusion. If that individual can truly become happier and more functional, then claiming that the transition is just a “band-aid” that feeds into the delusion is silly.
Now, I am stating that I don’t have a horse in this race, but that IF the person can be made truly happier, more functional, and psychically integrated, then basic psychology says that you have solved the problem. If not, then there’s something else that is problematic in the person’s pysche – possible that delusion that you have posited. I make these statements based on having a counseling degree and 8 years experience working with seriously mentally ill and other troubled individuals.
What I don’t get is how you can be making such definitive statements about all of this.
With all due respect, as bright and insightful as you can be my friend, from here it looks as though your need to see everything through the values and the lens of your religion is distorting what you see.
[/quote]
Hey Chushin. Nice to see you. I’m pretty sure Jewbacca is celebrating the sabbath today, but your post made me want to say this.
We’re only in our infancy in understanding the human brain, and the biology of these issues. The American Psychiatric Association now has a DSM-5. The DSM will continue to be revised. The International Classification system, is now ICD-10. Psychology is still such an incomplete and imperfect science at best, and complete voodoo at it’s worst. I know I’m not telling you anything you don’t already know here.
I’m just saying that Jewbacca may not get his values from the APA. People in The American Psychological Association are not without their own political biases, and certainly have an interest in defining some of our current social issues according to their own value systems. Someone with Judeo-Christian ethics might feel like they could cause permanent harm to someone, based on some current therapeutic practices. This is one of the main reasons I went into educational psych. I found some of the ideas in my field put me in a scary place, with the very real ability to do harm. It’s something that still weighs on my mind heavily.
Working backwards this morn to catch up on the questions:
PowerPuff: " This is one of the main reasons I went into educational psych. I found some of the ideas in my field put me in a scary place, with the very real ability to do harm. It’s something that still weighs on my mind heavily".
Going back to what countingbeans had said a few pages back: Words Matter. I am gad that you are aware of that as not many people are…
Actions do speak louder than words, but words can still move mountains. When someone is in a terrible spot, what you say can have life threatening consequences.
I have been a licenced EMT since 1998 and I know how I speak to a person in distress has a Huge outcome on how that persons next 5 minutes on this planet are going to be effected.
mutantcolors: Nice to meet you ! Have not seen you on the T before. You are correct that unless it directly effects you, “It’s none of your fucking business. Let people do what they do”. I like the attitude, and again i would prefer to be left alone. BUT I would rather help to educate the masses and have an informed Intellectual conversation with someone, than to try and fight against ignorance.
Destrength: “I don’t think you had mentioned which gender you had transitioned to. (or if you have) If you have transitioned, how did the hormone therapy affect your thinking? Did it make you weepy, more emotional, more aggressive, less aggressive, change how ambitious you are, etc” ?
I am Male to Female, and as I have come to realize, you are always in a state of “transition”. It is similar to growing up/ growing older. You never stop as it is a lifelong process.
The hormone therapy is a very very interesting situation to go through.
Your hormones are basically your information relay system in the body and they control everything !
For me I had always been, am and always will be a very emotional being. Going from being testosterone laden to estrogen/progesterone laden had more emotional episodes in it than I could have imagined.
Having to pull over on the side of the road to cry for no fucking apparant reason whatsoever. Holy crap
! I seem to be less “aggressive” than before but please do not confuse that with the word Driven (to excel in the face of adversity).
My temper which before had gotten me into some “trouble” has definitely mellowed out.
My Drive though to be the best human being I can is still there. I still strive to DO my best under the bar, in my conditioning and how I conduct my daily affairs with humanity.
#2: “How was growing up trans/bi, when did you leave the closet” ?
It was Awkward at best and oh my fucking goddess horrific to say the least.
I grew up chicago Jew surrounded by very conservative religious people.
when you are told that everything about you is an Abomination to “God” it takes a toll on the psych.
It is a major reason I have no love of religion. It is a major reason for the high incidence of suicide within the Lgbtq community.
I started dressing up in womens clothes about 8th grade. So my previous post about my 8th grade experience with breasts. Interestingly my mother is 6’ tall. So I actually grew into her clothing.
And man does she still have style. I just felt so much more comfortable in womens clothing then mens. It felt more natural.
When I looked in the mirror, the reflection I saw as a women was just one of peace within me.
I came out to a former girlfriend first, and then the more women who found out the easier it was. Women for being as back stabbing and
cattie as they are and can be are also a little more accepting then the Alpha Male species. Now i am just one of the grrrls.
The guys had a very hard time with it. And I would not expect anything else., having lived on that side of life.
Testosterone is an amazing hormone. It built the pyramids, the great wall of china and the first nuclear bomb.
But remember that DaVinci, Michealangelo and Alexander the Great where all gay. so give it up to that side of the T equation.
#3. “What prevented you from trying to take your life, or have you tried before” ?
I did try on two separate occasions. Both failures (ha). Unlike most people here who have what I call a “Jesus Gene” ( self sacrifice and turn the other cheek for others), I on the other hand have a Self Determination/ Self Preservation and I will Destroy you if you hurt me Gene.
So in the case of the suicide, it was my sense of Self Preservation that kicked in.
#4. “How has your condition affected your life negatively” ?
It was really negatively effected early in the process due to my height and build. Not linebacker by any means, but 73" tall and 173#
It is not that I was trying to “pass” as a women so much as I just didnt want to be noticed. You want to blend in with the 7 billion other beings on this planet.
Also, the job prospects and aspects are very interesting. People by nature are skitterish around things that they dont understand.
So when you start a new job…or transition while being employed, it can come as a H U G E shock to those that you work with.
One day you are Jack and the next you come to work as Jill. You absolutely do Not urinate while standing ! Be courteous to your co-workers who now have to share a bathroom with someone who still has external plumbing !
You have to put up with the double-take looks, the whispers behind your back, the occasional laugh out louds by some drunk idiot etc…
"Also, to comment on what I said earlier: I think all of the non binary terms are rather weird and off putting. Anytime I hear genderfluid, or anything similar I think of some angsty 16 year old white girl on tumblr with a smug attitude. I can certainly get people being transexual, bi, and gay, but anything else is… weird in my opinion. "
Laughing the Fuck out Loud !
For the record, we (the lgbtq community) prefer the term transgender.
The reason for this is that as we have learned more in the way of psychology on this topic, there is now a recognized difference between
what we think of our gender, and what we think of our sex. I know this might seem like splitting hairs, but it is a very important differentiation between the two.
“Final question, I promise: do you consider yourself trans, or something in between since you used the term genderfluid” ?
Does’nt have to be the last question. I have devulged a lot of myself, and would again rather have an informed T-Nation that I can talk to.
I am transgender, moving from a body with masculine traits to one with feminine traits.
I still use genderfluid as I am still in a transitional state of body. I have not had bottom surgery yet.
I would have to say that sexually, I am still bi-sexual as I am attracted to both masculine and feminine traits within a certain body.
Before anyone asks: The reason I have not yet gone through bottom surgery…cost.
Overall a well done transition from Male to Female will cost roughly $40,000 to $55,000 dollars.
Is it worth it ? How much is your life worth to you ?
So the question becomes (and i do not want to sound like an ass) why would you do this ? What makes you feel this way ?
Well, when YOU look in that mirror and it reflects You, what drives you to go to the gym, use the supplements that you use…
maybe even inject the T that you do.
We tell people that they should throw away the scale because if they lose 10 pounds of fat and again 10 pounds of muscle the scale
will stay say weight X. We tell them to look into the mirror because the mirror never lies, nor does 200#.
So what is it that You see reflected in that mirror of yours that never lies . … … ?
A cool little video from a gender therapist:
[quote]mutantcolors wrote:
In a backward-ass moment of me having to play the parent to stop my mother from talking shit on Bruce Jenner’s face lift because it’s none of her fucking business, I will add this:
It’s none of your fucking business. Let people do what they do.[/quote]
Well if it’s none of anybody’s business, then you should be neutral and neither support nor disparage people who are making the decision to self-medicate and/or surgically modify themselves to conform to a different set of gender standards.
That means Jenner should have received no rewards or accolades and nobody including yourself should be encouraging others follow suite as the default remedy to gender dysphoria.
[quote]mutantcolors wrote:
In a backward-ass moment of me having to play the parent to stop my mother from talking shit on Bruce Jenner’s face lift because it’s none of her fucking business, I will add this:
It’s none of your fucking business. Let people do what they do.[/quote]
Hilarious. You stopped your own mother from expressing an opinion, but demand others to let people do what they do.
Mama raised a damn fool.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Lotta “if’s” goin’ on 'round here.[/quote]
Sure.
Some of these folks probably ARE delusional. Did you not see my earlier post?
Good evaluation psychologically is an important piece of the process.[/quote]
The default position is NOT a good psychological evaluation and in fact if you were to suggest such a proposition in any public space, you would IMMEDIATELY be labeled Transphobic and a bigot.
Obviously there are cases where people with gender dysphoria are beyond psychiatric treatment, which is ultimately a failure of the parents to recognize this unease at a young age.
In other words the outcome may have been better if Kroc got counseling and treatment starting when he was 5. I don’t know why he couldn’t or wouldn’t communicate this to his parents at that age, but it’s really sad that that communication didn’t happen.
[quote]mutantcolors wrote:
In a backward-ass moment of me having to play the parent to stop my mother from talking shit on Bruce Jenner’s face lift because it’s none of her business, I will add this:
It’s none of your business. Let people do what they do.[/quote]
On a personal level, I appreciate the “live and let live”, individual freedom sentiment. Absolutely.
But, to think that this we should all “mind our own business” is to ignore that these issues effect public policy. People have been forced to step down from their jobs for supporting traditional marriage initiatives. Federal health care laws are effected, which effects all of us. Most of us have gay family members, friends, coworkers. We should be kind. We should be respectful, but trying to silence the conversation or act like it has no effect on you isn’t realistic, IMO.
[quote]TooHuman wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Lotta “if’s” goin’ on 'round here.[/quote]
Sure.
Some of these folks probably ARE delusional. Did you not see my earlier post?
Good evaluation psychologically is an important piece of the process.[/quote]
The default position is NOT a good psychological evaluation and in fact if you were to suggest such a proposition in any public space, you would IMMEDIATELY be labeled Transphobic and a bigot.
Obviously there are cases where people with gender dysphoria are beyond psychiatric treatment, which is ultimately a failure of the parents to recognize this unease at a young age.
In other words the outcome may have been better if Kroc got counseling and treatment starting when he was 5. I don’t know why he couldn’t or wouldn’t communicate this to his parents at that age, but it’s really sad that that communication didn’t happen.[/quote]
How do you know that recognizing this at a young age would change anything?