Matt Kroc Transitions to Janae Kroc

Off Topic
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So, are they more physically integrated after the change?

I have an acquaintance who transitioned from male to female 7 years ago and she is experiencing extreme regret and she joined a group of likeminded individuals, so she’s not alone. I’ve done some research over the last year and there are quite a few transgenders who regret having had the surgery and that the transition surgery did not change anything at all for them (not denying, of course, that a good many of them do NOT regret the transition).

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[quote]Chushin wrote:

If the person is MORE psychically integrated after the change, they were hardly “delusional.”
[/quote]

No, that means the treatment for the mental illness alleviated the more problematic symptoms of the problem for that person.

For example, I have an elderly great uncle who has Alzheimer’s. He frequently demands to see his sister, claiming she was “just there.”

Well, his sister died in Dachau circa 1944. She was dragged from his arms at the train station for the “showers.”

When he is very agitated, we’ve sometimes played along to calm him down – the merits of this approach being debatable (it’s considered a bad approach by most elder care experts who say “playing along” makes things worse), but you sometimes do what you have to do.

Regardless, neither his muddled mind, nor our playing along with his delusion, bring his sister back from the dead.

She’s still dead, and Kroc, regardless if his symptoms are alleviated by wearing a dress, is still a man.

And please, don’t get me wrong — I am not debating there very well may be a serious involuntary issue with gender confused people. I have no idea, not is it any of my business.

Where I disagree is that I (and similar like-minded people) have to accept a fantasy as true, ignore an obvious mental illness as normal, or be considered a “hater.”

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[quote]Powerpuff wrote:

Seriously, Does Kroc really have 58" shoulders? I’m telling you, the tailoring alone is going to be expensive.
[/quote]

I am size 54 tall, and Kroc looks a lot bigger than me (to me) so I just picked a number.

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[quote]Chushin wrote:

A label of mental illness requires that the “symptom” be dysfunctional and negatively interfere with the person’s life in some way.

If the person is MORE psychically integrated after the change, they were hardly “delusional.”

[/quote]

Believing that using your penis to have sex with women makes you a lesbian because you like to wear dresses seems at least mildly delusional to me.

1 Like
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[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
Where I disagree is that I (and similar like-minded people) have to accept a fantasy as true, ignore an obvious mental illness as normal, or be considered a “hater.”
[/quote]

It’s interesting-to the same extent you “have to accept a fantasy as true”- an atheist likely feels the same way about a person who is religious. Where I don’t follow your logic is in the “have to accept”-by your own words you don’t accept it, as you stated.

I don’t opine one way or another on the objective truth of your characterization of this as “an obvious mental illness” but I do point out that unless you have access to data or specialized knowledge in this field, this is a pretty huge assumption. I do think the topic is worthy of debate and consideration, so I object to your apparent conclusion on it, as opposed to your raising it and thinking about it.

Being called a “hater” is not “forcing” you to accept something, it’s another person not having to “accept” your viewpoint. It seems your criticism/gripe is more about feeling like you will incur negative feedback in relation to your viewpoint, which at this time in our society is in a major state of flux and uncertainty. But the criticism leveled at you by another free-member of society is merely the same as your “criticism” against accepting a trans person.

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[quote]jasmincar wrote:
You are intolerant or a bigot when you don’t accept someone for what he is while doing no harm to anyone…
[/quote]
OK, then Charlotte McKinney is an intolerant bigot for refusing to accept me as her lover, since I’d certainly do her no harm.

Except for religious people or secular people who disagree with the proposition that transsexuals are normal, you mean.

They are intolerant bigots.

(The double standard here is almost funny.)

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I find it fairly amusing how many people confidently call Kroc silly or insane - probably without ever having educated themselves on the finer details of transgender issues. This is no better than seventeen-year old Euro hippies bashing ‘America’.

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[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
I find it fairly amusing how many people confidently call Kroc silly or insane - probably without ever having educated themselves on the finer details of transgender issues. This is no better than seventeen-year old Euro hippies bashing ‘America’.[/quote]

Agree. A whole lotta armchair psychologists up in here.

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[quote]killerDIRK wrote:

Please, feel free to ASK QUESTIONS and I will do my best from My Perspective to answer them. Brutal honesty seems to be my hallmark.
Remember though that this is My life Experience and Perspective. Yours will differ based upon Religious upbringing, Scientific backround,
personal experience and so many other factors…

I do believe that we are a little less bigoted than we have been. I cannot believe for the second time in a week I am agreeing with Beans, but stranger things have been known to happen.

anyway…

lets see where this thread continues on to . … …
[/quote]

Do you feel like it is a mental disorder? What do you think about the high correlation of transexuality and having mental disorders nonrelated to transexuality?

Why do you use such special snowflake terms as “gender fluid”, and “queer”?

Have you ever had suicidal thoughts because of your condition and corresponding conditions?

What do you think about the fact that if you were born a few decades earlier or even earlier that in almost any part of the world you would either be killed or placed in a mental institution?

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[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
I find it fairly amusing how many people confidently call Kroc silly or insane - probably without ever having educated themselves on the finer details of transgender issues. This is no better than seventeen-year old Euro hippies bashing ‘America’.[/quote]

No “finer details of transgender issues” are involved here, and no amount of sophistry will make a bird a bee or a man a woman.

The cheerleaders applauding such insanity are little different than the people in a crowd below a very depressed person standing on a tall building ready to commit suicide, admiring the jumper’s bravery, and calling out for him to jump.

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[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I respect the lifting and nutrition knowledge of Kroc. Kroc is a far greater lifter (and certainly bodybuilder) than I ever was or will be. I’ve enjoyed his articles and learned from them.

I also defend Kroc’s right to believe he is a woman, to pick his name, to wear a dress, and to even go around pretending he is a woman. That’s his business not mine. I would have totally ignored his situation but for his making things public. That’s “tolerance.”

I, however, reject, as matter of both science and faith, that he is anything but an amazingly huge man in a dress.

Yes, biology and sex is sometimes a spectrum, but Kroc was not a hermaphrodite dancing on the grey edge. Kroc is a dude. An impressive dude, in fact.

What he has are mental problems and/or kinks where he likes to wear dresses and pretend he is a lesbian.

This is not intolerant, nor “homophobic” (the dumbest word I’ve ever heard), nor any of the other stupid phrases used to shut down intelligent conversation.

He’s a dude. In a dress.

I tolerate his choice. I am certainly not going to try to stop him (or any other dude that wants to wear a dress). To the contrary, I defend his right to make such a silly choice.

What is intolerant and “phobic” are those who are afraid of the decisions of liked-minded people as myself, who can see this nonsense for a silly choice and whose decisions rest on basic biology and 4,000 years of Judaeo-Christian teachings.

Inevitably, we will be shouted down, called names, and well, not “tolerated” for daring to hold un-PC beliefs.

The Tolerance Movement," if it was a real movement, would leave people alone (e.g., the poor Christian wedding couple who are being persecuted for their religious beliefs in the USA), just as we leave others alone.
[/quote]

I stand and clap slowly, yet powerfully, for you Sir.

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[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]CLUNK wrote:

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
I find it fairly amusing how many people confidently call Kroc silly or insane - probably without ever having educated themselves on the finer details of transgender issues. This is no better than seventeen-year old Euro hippies bashing ‘America’.[/quote]

Agree. A whole lotta armchair psychologists up in here.

[/quote]

…as well as cheerleaders acting as de facto armchair psychologists.[/quote]

I don’t like armchair experts. Here’s what a real expert has to say:

“Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the former psychiatrist-in-chief for Johns Hopkins Hospital and its current Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry, said that transgenderism is a â??mental disorderâ?? that merits treatment, that sex change is “biologically impossible,” and that people who promote sexual reassignment surgery are collaborating with and promoting a mental disorder.”

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

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So, if I still do his rows, does that make me gay or anything?

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[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

He’s a dude. In a dress.

[/quote]

To quote “Ted”:

“There are no chicks with dicks… only dudes with tits…”

I have nothing but mad respect for Kroc. In a singlet, or in a dress. One of my greatest motivational influences in powerlifting.

Perhaps I shall drink an Appletini in his honor. Love that dude/chick.[/quote]

Bingo. A tribute to what he’s done for countless admirers… will not be lessened.

You obviously don’t need to have every damned thing organized in neatly labelled boxes in your life… unlike some folks in this thread.

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[quote]CLUNK wrote:

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
I find it fairly amusing how many people confidently call Kroc silly or insane - probably without ever having educated themselves on the finer details of transgender issues. This is no better than seventeen-year old Euro hippies bashing ‘America’.[/quote]

Agree. A whole lotta armchair psychologists up in here.

[/quote]

Ok, a little friday morning education for everyone here.
#1. Jewbacca, although I may disagree with you and beans on many fronts, I would rather educate you as a friend, then be considered a “hater” because we do not see eye to eye.

#2. When a person seeks to transition from one gender to the other, there are many steps one must take. These include almost in order: Seeking out proper medical consultation for a period of One Year consistently with a psychiatrist trained in gender issues. Attending support groups when necessary. Having and showing one is capable of providing for self sufficiency with a full time job and or part time job and school. They are allowed to start on hormones after a period of three months into their psychological councelling with the proper supervision of the primary psychiatrist. They must dress as the gender that they identify with 24/7/365. They may not have any surgery whatsoever until their first full year is done.

Mcincinatti: It’s interesting-to the same extent you “have to accept a fantasy as true”- an atheist likely feels the same way about a person who is religious. Where I don’t follow your logic is in the “have to accept”-by your own words you don’t accept it, as you stated.

Being an atheist, I like the way you phased this. Also, I am not asking anyone to “have to accept” who or what I am. To be honest, I would actually prefer to never be noticed, nor leave a trace on the earth…anything more than necessary.

For DeStrength:

Do you feel like it is a mental disorder? What do you think about the high correlation of transexuality and having mental disorders nonrelated to transexuality?

I believe that it is a disconnect of some type within the brain, yes.
I would have to dig deeper into the correlation between differing types of mental disorders.

Why do you use such special snowflake terms as “gender fluid”, and “queer”?

I do not believe it is a “special snowflake” issue as much as a way to try to define the what, where, when, why and how of the situation for the layperson to understand. Because we just Love to try to define something and place it into that little box we call our greymatter.

I also like to OWN those words and by doing so, they cause no distress.
I am going to catch no end of shit for this, but it is similar in nature to those of African dissent calling within themselves “niggers” but find it completely Offensive (and rightly so) when some backcounty cracker calls them that.

Have you ever had suicidal thoughts because of your condition and corresponding conditions?

Yes I have. The incidence of suicide within the entire lgbtq community is magnitudes of times greater than in the general population. quite possibly the only group with a higher incidence of suicide are dentists in Seattle.

The statistics are that 65% of the lgbtq community have at one time or another has attempted to commit suicide.

When you feel that you have absolutely no one to support you, no friends to comfort you, and believe that you are the one special little snowflake with these feelings…there are times that the overwhelming sense of uugh takes you to an end.

What do you think about the fact that if you were born a few decades earlier or even earlier that in almost any part of the world you would either be killed or placed in a mental institution?

This has crossed my mind during my life. I am thankful that I was not burned for being a witch in Salem, tourtured during the spanish inquisition, fed to the lions during the Holy roman empire…et al. Gee, all the above done in the name of religion ? Go figure.

I find it fairly amusing how many people confidently call Kroc silly or insane - probably without ever having educated themselves on the finer details of transgender issues. This is no better than seventeen-year old Euro hippies bashing ‘America’.

And that is the basic problem with most things nighthawk. People either do Not want to take the time to know, or chose to remain ignorant that something very different from their perspective of life could actually exist and thrive.

A Marine, actually.

Meaning that she, more so than Caitlyn Jenner, has earned the right to be called “brave”.

I give her the greatest respect in the world. I being what and who I am, really would prefer if we did not do the great “smack in the face”. Most of us just want to go on with our silly little lives and live as peacefully as possible.

please keep the questions coming.
Ignorance is more dangerous the Intelligence.

remember though that this is my experience, yours will differ accordingly.