Matt Kroc Transitions to Janae Kroc

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Jlabs wrote:
It may actually benefit their image to embrace a transgender and show that within the lifting world people are tolerant.[/quote]

Fixed for you: SOME are tolerant of and want to pal around with transgenders. I am not sure what other forums you visit, but forums serve for anonymity of posters in all hobbies and interests, and there are quite a few people on other fitness forums who are not fond of Kroc’s move and have showed their “intolerance” liberally.

I actually think the average gym goer of the meat head variety does not care much about the plights of transgenders, nor do they prefer them as an ideal image they want to see on a bodybuilding flier or in a supplemet ad. Actually, I believe a great deal of men these days use bodybuilding, powerlifting, rap, heavy metal, hardcore, and the like, as formulaic expressions of some type of badass masculinity. I don’t see transgenders meshing well with this. [/quote]

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out -
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out -
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out -
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.[/quote]

I’ve seen this several times, and though I see the implication of it, I don’t see how it fits with my post. Care to elaborate?
[/quote]

Heading out camping and was at work reading earlier, so not a lot of thought has gone into this or the above - it was just a reaction to “don’t care much about the plight of.” Probably knee-jerk.

[/quote]

It’s fine. I just didn’t know where it was coming from. And I apologize if I was a pain in the ass before.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

Good article, surprisingly written by one of my own tribe.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
http://www.breitbart.com/education/2015/08/21/the-science-is-settled-sexual-orientation-is-not-purely-biological/[/quote]

[quote]pushharder wrote:
http://www.breitbart.com/education/2015/08/21/the-science-is-settled-sexual-orientation-is-not-purely-biological/[/quote]

I guess we are raised differently here. I’ve seen more people stand up for gays and trans then I have seen those publicly try to bash them or shame them. Different cultures values. I would treat anybody with the same amount of respect no matter what they have or had between their legs. There are many insecure people who try to mask it with lifting and sounding off about other people choices. Those are the people with the problem not a dude in a dress who cares how some one chooses to dress.

I would acknowledge that trans rights in general are further behind gay rights and our culture doesn’t comprehend well people who go in and out of sexes, in other cultures they have terms for it but we seem hung up on it because your ingrained with gender and sex ideals at an early age. Open your minds.

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

Good article, surprisingly written by one of my own tribe. [/quote]

[quote]Jlabs wrote:

I would acknowledge that trans rights in general are further behind gay rights [/quote]

Umm… What special rights do gay and trans people have that all people don’t have? And what about them are “behind”? And what are the “behind”?

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I’m actually cynical to the point at which I don’t think the average meat head born post-1985 even knows what National Socialist Germany was about or any of the details of World War II. I really don’t think they are that intellectual or interested. Does anyone hang out in any of the fitness-oriented forums on Facebook? Ever consider the intellect and depth of the average poster? Most of us indulge a bit here with selfies and progress updates, but do you think people who are providing on-the-hour updates of their every waking moments are interested in much else? “Hey guys, here’s breakfast.” “Hey guys, I have 20 more grams of carbs and 3 grams of fat left for the day. What should I eat?” “Hey guys, there’s this person at the gym I want to speak to. How do I do that?” “Hey guys, here’s me after eating pizza.” Some of these are near verbatim of what I’ve read. I assume these are not the type of folks who empathize much or are concerned with right versus wrong in any qualifying way.

I am not an advertising executive, but I assume–perhaps wrongfully so–that a company would use symbols that hit home with a majority of people in a field or models that they would like to look or be like or whose looks they admire, especially in an image-driven niche like fitness. Considering almost no men lifting feel like a woman or want to be a woman or would look at a transvestite as a sex object, I can’t picture a transvestite’s image being the impetus to buy nutrition or fitness products. At 36 years old I don’t idolize anyone or aspire to look like someone else or so seriously admire another man’s looks.,But when I was in my teens and early 20’s I was a bit starstruck by my favorite good-looking bodybuilders (Dennis Newman, Chris Duffy, Gary Strydom, Mike Francois, and Mike O’hearn, for example) and that compelled me to buy bodybuilding magazines. (I was never a huge supplement user, but for the past few years I do love my Flameout, Finibars, and Plazma, which I use almost daily). Transvestites don’t strike this chord with sixteen to thirty-five year old men. This doesn’t mean they can’t respectfully treat one.

My feelings here, flawed as they might be. And again, I share some here because, again, I think we have some mature people here.

(And no, I don’t have a problem as a straight man recognizing who’s good looking.)[/quote]

Your assessment of the company’s perspective is probably fair, and again I think my reaction was knee-jerk. I had someone in my office last week struggling with this issue and the client mentioned that 12 trans people were killed in 2014 and there are already 16 dead this year. (These are not numbers I’ve verified.)

I have a hard time not being knee-jerk about people who are enduring a shit storm for doing things that harm no one. An example of a firing I support would be the #FHRITP guy in Canada. I find what he and his friends did offensive in a manner that aggresses against others, as opposed to being something some people might not prefer, but does not directly assault them.

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I’m actually cynical to the point at which I don’t think the average meat head born post-1985 even knows what National Socialist Germany was about or any of the details of World War II. I really don’t think they are that intellectual or interested. Does anyone hang out in any of the fitness-oriented forums on Facebook? Ever consider the intellect and depth of the average poster? Most of us indulge a bit here with selfies and progress updates, but do you think people who are providing on-the-hour updates of their every waking moments are interested in much else? “Hey guys, here’s breakfast.” “Hey guys, I have 20 more grams of carbs and 3 grams of fat left for the day. What should I eat?” “Hey guys, there’s this person at the gym I want to speak to. How do I do that?” “Hey guys, here’s me after eating pizza.” Some of these are near verbatim of what I’ve read. I assume these are not the type of folks who empathize much or are concerned with right versus wrong in any qualifying way.

I am not an advertising executive, but I assume–perhaps wrongfully so–that a company would use symbols that hit home with a majority of people in a field or models that they would like to look or be like or whose looks they admire, especially in an image-driven niche like fitness. Considering almost no men lifting feel like a woman or want to be a woman or would look at a transvestite as a sex object, I can’t picture a transvestite’s image being the impetus to buy nutrition or fitness products. At 36 years old I don’t idolize anyone or aspire to look like someone else or so seriously admire another man’s looks.,But when I was in my teens and early 20’s I was a bit starstruck by my favorite good-looking bodybuilders (Dennis Newman, Chris Duffy, Gary Strydom, Mike Francois, and Mike O’hearn, for example) and that compelled me to buy bodybuilding magazines. (I was never a huge supplement user, but for the past few years I do love my Flameout, Finibars, and Plazma, which I use almost daily). Transvestites don’t strike this chord with sixteen to thirty-five year old men. This doesn’t mean they can’t respectfully treat one.

My feelings here, flawed as they might be. And again, I share some here because, again, I think we have some mature people here.

(And no, I don’t have a problem as a straight man recognizing who’s good looking.)[/quote]

Your assessment of the company’s perspective is probably fair, and again I think my reaction was knee-jerk. I had someone in my office last week struggling with this issue and the client mentioned that 12 trans people were killed in 2014 and there are already 16 dead this year. (These are not numbers I’ve verified.)

I have a hard time not being knee-jerk about people who are enduring a shit storm for doing things that harm no one. An example of a firing I support would be the #FHRITP guy in Canada. I find what he and his friends did offensive in a manner that aggresses against others, as opposed to being something some people might not prefer, but does not directly assault them.
[/quote]

It’s not like he was fired from a job as a cashier or insurance rep. A company that relied on his likeness to strengthen their brand. His likeness has dramatically changed, and the company no longer feels that it strengthens their brand. There is no issue here. If Cindy Crawford decided to chop off all of her hair, dress like a man, and stop wearing makeup, she would probably be dropped from Cover Girl just the same. In fact, thousands of women just plain get old and get dropped from whatever product they’ve been repping for years because their likeness has changed and no longer strengthens the brand of the company. This is a non-issue.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Jlabs wrote:

I would acknowledge that trans rights in general are further behind gay rights [/quote]

Umm… What special rights do gay and trans people have that all people don’t have? And what about them are “behind”? And what are the “behind”?[/quote]

I’m puzzled considering some are filthy rich and hold top executive positions.

So, if you go from being a handsome hottie powerlifter to being a middle-aged mom, your supplement company contracts might not be renewed? Huh… I could have told him this might happen.

JB - I grew up in an Orthodox Jewish family. I won’t argue with you but just to prove the point that even in Judaism the matter is not all black or white I refer you to the Rav Valdenberg who wrote “Tsitsit Eliezer”. I think you may be surprised.

[quote]DoBear wrote:
JB - I grew up in an Orthodox Jewish family. I won’t argue with you but just to prove the point that even in Judaism the matter is not all black or white I refer you to the Rav Valdenberg who wrote “Tsitsit Eliezer”. I think you may be surprised.[/quote]

As an Israeli, I am very familiar with Eliyahu Eliezer Dessler. In fact, one of my first jobs as a kid was driving a Coca-Cola truck that delivered to Bnei Brak (which is the slum where his yeshiva was).

The particular ruling you discuss concerned a child born with female genitalia, no penis, some genetic abnormalities, and a single vestigial testicle within the body. He ruled it was appropriate in that circumstance (where there is a hermaphrodite) to violate the rule against castration.

Opinions differ as to whether he was correct, although all agree reasonable minds can differ.

But, as I noted in my very first post, there are some grey circumstances in the world that are close calls.

Here, however, Matt Kroc is a giant impressive dude – in a dress.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]DoBear wrote:
JB - I grew up in an Orthodox Jewish family. I won’t argue with you but just to prove the point that even in Judaism the matter is not all black or white I refer you to the Rav Valdenberg who wrote “Tsitsit Eliezer”. I think you may be surprised.[/quote]

As an Israeli, I am very familiar with Eliyahu Eliezer Dessler. In fact, one of my first jobs as a kid was driving a Coca-Cola truck that delivered to Bnei Brak (which is the slum where his yeshiva was).

The particular ruling you discuss concerned a child born with female genitalia, no penis, some genetic abnormalities, and a single vestigial testicle within the body. He ruled it was appropriate in that circumstance (where there is a hermaphrodite) to violate the rule against castration.

Opinions differ as to whether he was correct, although all agree reasonable minds can differ.

But, as I noted in my very first post, there are some grey circumstances in the world that are close calls.

Here, however, Matt Kroc is a giant impressive dude – in a dress.[/quote]

Exactly. The moral question of using castration to correct a genetic birth defect in infancy is complete non-sequitur to the moral question of encouraging the use of castration and genital mutilation to conform to the psychosis of a person with a mental disorder.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Yeah, it’s a mental illness:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120[/quote]

ha

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Yeah, it’s a mental illness:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120[/quote]

ha[/quote]

What have you been smoking in the boys room to cause such an eloquent reply?[/quote]

Nothing as debilitating as whatever McHugh was smoking when he wrote that article.