Matt Kroc Transitions to Janae Kroc

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

Is it safe to assume such, and if so, would it also be safe to assume the opposite?
[/quote]

Well, it is an assumption based on evidence. Stuff like observed homosexuality (in roughly similar proportion, no less) in other highly social species, that rugby player’s brain injury and that identical twin story from 60 Minutes. (links below)

All taken together, it does seem that genetic/neural hardwiring indeed forms the basis for the “identity” that we ultimately enact.

[/quote]

What the hell are you talking about? You’re conflating evidence for sexual orientation to gender identify. That’s a complete non-sequiter.

There’s good evidence that homosexuality is a non-standard/anomalous reproductive strategy linked to genetic and epigentic factors, but that has nothing fundamentally to do with the brain chemistry of people with gender dysphoria.

Unless you have some kind of evidence to suggest that homosexuality is strongly aligned with gender dysphoria, those links are totally irrelevant.

To be fair, it would be difficult to find that kind of evidence because gender dysphoria is a lot more rare than homosexuality(by at least 2 orders of magnitude).
Either way the burden of proof for a connection between the two is on you.

There is only one reality and one Mother Nature. I’d say up until about twenty years ago, people looked at the world through such a perspective. Somewhere along the way, in the 2000’s, mushy-headed, over-compassionate Americans made up concepts such as “my reality” and “his/her reality”. Although each person’s life experiences, thoughts, perspectives, attitudes, and trials are different from one another, there is only one reality.

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:

It seems like the trend is to become Jewish here, Brick. You should probably just be that. Unless you want to be a Jewess, then you should probably talk to Dirk. On second thought, I think he went from being a Jewish boy to becoming an Atheist woman, so he might not be able to help with the Jewess transition either. [/quote]

Yeah! :slight_smile:

Thanks for the reply. I’ve noticed an increase in wannabe Jews or admiration of Jews, which is likely because of Jewish success in America. I’ve actually had gentiles slightly annoyed when I’ve offered self-criticism of my own ethnic group, which I find slightly amusing. I’ve also even had gentiles insist that Jews are only a religious group rather than an ethnicity or a race.

[quote]
BTW, I have a Hebrew first name that was quite popular in the UK a few years ago.
And I like men with facial hair, which probably means I’m not only Jewish but Orthodox. I once had a crush on a gay man which is the closest I’ve ever been to going gay, but who can be sure? This is so confusing.

  [/quote]

I am confused myself too. I feel like I am living in some whacked-out, bizarro world.

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
There is only one reality and one Mother Nature. I’d say up until about twenty years ago, people looked at the world through such a perspective. Somewhere along the way, in the 2000’s, mushy-headed, over-compassionate Americans made up concepts such as “my reality” and “his/her reality”. Although each person’s life experiences, thoughts, perspectives, attitudes, and trials are different from one another, there is only one reality. [/quote]

What about Descartes or Hume?

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
There is only one reality and one Mother Nature. I’d say up until about twenty years ago, people looked at the world through such a perspective. Somewhere along the way, in the 2000’s, mushy-headed, over-compassionate Americans made up concepts such as “my reality” and “his/her reality”. Although each person’s life experiences, thoughts, perspectives, attitudes, and trials are different from one another, there is only one reality. [/quote]

What about Descartes or Hume?[/quote]

What about them? They were both empiricists and thoroughly rejected subjectivism and the sophistry and platonic bullshit of modern America.

[quote]TooHuman wrote:
What the hell are you talking about? You’re conflating evidence for sexual orientation to gender identify. That’s a complete non-sequiter.

There’s good evidence that homosexuality is a non-standard/anomalous reproductive strategy linked to genetic and epigentic factors, but that has nothing fundamentally to do with the brain chemistry of people with gender dysphoria.

Unless you have some kind of evidence to suggest that homosexuality is strongly aligned with gender dysphoria, those links are totally irrelevant.

To be fair, it would be difficult to find that kind of evidence because gender dysphoria is a lot more rare than homosexuality(by at least 2 orders of magnitude).
Either way the burden of proof for a connection between the two is on you.
[/quote]

I didn’t mean to connect the two like that.

Personally, I do suspect a genetic basis for both orientation and gender identity (and that such a thing may well be uncovered in our lifetimes) but that’s obv speculation.

Relatedly, it seems reasonable that such variations have always existed within our species but only very recently (and in very small regions, relatively) have such individuals felt free to do what feels “most right” to them.

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
There is only one reality and one Mother Nature. I’d say up until about twenty years ago, people looked at the world through such a perspective. Somewhere along the way, in the 2000’s, mushy-headed, over-compassionate Americans made up concepts such as “my reality” and “his/her reality”. Although each person’s life experiences, thoughts, perspectives, attitudes, and trials are different from one another, there is only one reality. [/quote]

What about Descartes or Hume?[/quote]

What about them? They were both empiricists and thoroughly rejected subjectivism and the sophistry and platonic bullshit of modern America.[/quote]

Wouldn’t that be indicative that the concept of personal reality predates the 1990s, if they felt the need to reject it?

I don’t feel that this is a modern debate.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
There is only one reality and one Mother Nature. I’d say up until about twenty years ago, people looked at the world through such a perspective. Somewhere along the way, in the 2000’s, mushy-headed, over-compassionate Americans made up concepts such as “my reality” and “his/her reality”. Although each person’s life experiences, thoughts, perspectives, attitudes, and trials are different from one another, there is only one reality. [/quote]

What about Descartes or Hume?[/quote]

What about them? They were both empiricists and thoroughly rejected subjectivism and the sophistry and platonic bullshit of modern America.[/quote]

Wouldn’t that be indicative that the concept of personal reality predates the 1990s, if they felt the need to reject it?

I don’t feel that this is a modern debate.
[/quote]

Well of course that concept predates modern society. It goes back as far as platonism and before that tribal mystacism. The point is that when empiricism dominates the minds of people society flourishes(Renaissance, the scientific revolution, the industrial revolution). When subjectivism becomes dominant, society suffers.
Western Society is now in a downward swing towards sophistry and magical thinking, the only difference between the compareable decline durring the middle ages is that instead of the Church and Devine Clergy, you’ve got government and politicians as the source of magical thinking.

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

Well of course that concept predates modern society. It goes back as far as platonism and before that tribal mystacism.[/quote]

That’s my thoughts as well. I remembered Plato’s Republic touching on it too, but I’m pretty far behind on my ancient philosophy. I just picked up Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, and have been enjoying it so far.

Powerpuff and Brickhead. ftr, I was Bar-mitzvahed on 18 May 1980…ring a bell ? Mount Saint Helens blew her top.

In the age of the internet, we just hear or learn of things much more quickly than we did before.

It also makes it easier to find like minded groups of people to converse and exchange ideas with.

Easier to get a differing opinion of world politics as an example.

Anyway . … …

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
There is only one reality and one Mother Nature. I’d say up until about twenty years ago, people looked at the world through such a perspective. Somewhere along the way, in the 2000’s, mushy-headed, over-compassionate Americans made up concepts such as “my reality” and “his/her reality”. Although each person’s life experiences, thoughts, perspectives, attitudes, and trials are different from one another, there is only one reality. [/quote]

As DoubleDuce suggested, “traditional reality” was poor word choice on my part, because I certainly didn’t mean to suggest multiple realities or Mother Natures.

Rather, my point was simply that the sexual dimorphism in our species isn’t always clear-cut. Consider the small percentage who are born anatomically ambiguous via genetic and hormonal factors. Certainly that minority compromises the “most obvious” of the intersex individuals created by Mother Nature, but who’s to say that less obvious manifestations aren’t also created. And in such cases, nearly all we have to go on is their own reported subjective, anecdotal experiences. Now THAT is what I meant re: broadening our framework of understanding.

And I do agree re: mushy-headed, over-compassionate Americans and their contrivances, because of course.

There’s also a bit more to being a woman than “identifying” as a woman. A Facebook user explained this better than I can… because she is a woman! Obviously it’s a bit more complicated and deep than throwing a wig, makeup, and female clothing on, and getting plastic surgery and hormonal medication.

[i]I’ve heard you say you “identify as a woman”. But I find that highly unlikely and insulting. You see, Mr. Jenner, there is more to being a woman than beautiful gowns and fake boobs. There is more to being a woman than makeup and pretty hair. This is something we mothers begin teaching our young daughters at an early age.

As a woman of nearly 50 years, I can tell you what it is truly like to be a woman. You may be able to understand or even empathize, but you are definitely NOT able to “identify”. For instance, you will never know what it is like to wake up every 28 days with searing stomach pain so bad it doubles you over, yet still trot off to work or school as though everything is fine. You will never know what it is like to have your car break down on the side of the road and when a couple men stop to help your prayer is that their intentions are good because there is no way on earth you have the ability to physically hang let alone overpower them. You have no idea what it is like to long to have a child only to have your third miscarriage, yet still manage to be able to share in the joy of all the other young mothers in your life. You will never know what it’s like to get pregnant, gain 40 lbs (1/3 your total body weight), hurl all morning long for 4 months straight, yet still care for your other two toddlers, and not drive your husband to the brink. You will never know what it is like to give birth to a 10 lb. baby boy with absolutely no medication!!! You will never know what it is like at the age of 50 to be walking down the streets of Phoenix and popping in the Dairy Queen for a cool refreshing treat only to be gripped at that moment with your fourth hot flash of the day.

I have, in my life, met many women who have been widowed. For me to walk up to them and say I identify with them would be ludicrous. Like I said earlier, I can empathize with them, but I cannot identify myself as one of them because I don’t know what that is like - I can only imagine. And let’s not even talk about women who have worked through their double mastectomy.

No, Mr. Jenner there is more to being a woman than you could ever experience or even imagine. And lesson #1 for all true women is this - botox injections, plastic surgeries, designer clothing, and public approval is NOT what makes a woman. A real woman is one who in spite of the stretch marks, age spots, dirt under her nails and tired eyes, and even with 1/2 plastic photoshopped supermodels as her competition, she has carried herself in such a way that her family, husband, and children, see her real beauty and find her far more valuable than rubies or diamonds and they rise up and call her blessed.

Mr. Jenner you are a privileged white male living in the U.S.A. In fact, you are so free and so privileged, you can even spend your massive amounts of money to change your outward appearance to whatever you wish. That is NOT something most woman around the globe are free to do even if they wanted. MOST women in our world don’t even have access to a high school education. So, Mr. Jenner, I find your claim to identify as “a woman” disingenuous, uneducated, and honestly - quite offensive.[/i]

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
There is only one reality and one Mother Nature. I’d say up until about twenty years ago, people looked at the world through such a perspective. Somewhere along the way, in the 2000’s, mushy-headed, over-compassionate Americans made up concepts such as “my reality” and “his/her reality”. Although each person’s life experiences, thoughts, perspectives, attitudes, and trials are different from one another, there is only one reality. [/quote]

As DoubleDuce suggested, “traditional reality” was poor word choice on my part, because I certainly didn’t mean to suggest multiple realities or Mother Natures.

Rather, my point was simply that the sexual dimorphism in our species isn’t always clear-cut. Consider the small percentage who are born anatomically ambiguous via genetic and hormonal factors. Certainly that minority compromises the “most obvious” of the intersex individuals created by Mother Nature, but who’s to say that less obvious manifestations aren’t also created. And in such cases, nearly all we have to go on is their own reported subjective, anecdotal experiences. Now THAT is what I meant re: broadening our framework of understanding.

And I do agree re: mushy-headed, over-compassionate Americans and their contrivances, because of course.
[/quote]

When I wrote, “up until 20 years ago,” I was not thinking so deeply or far back in history. I was going by my own experience and how I saw the world around me up until now. It might have been better to express myself in more detail and reflect more considering sexual bolshevism, moral relativism, suicidal altruism, and above all, as I believe it is with the case of Matt Kroc in the fitness community, false piety, have been around for a long time.

And then there are statements regarding judgment that starting to pop up more and more to me in the 20 years. Perhaps they were always around and people believed in this asinine blabber. “Who are you to judge?” “Who am I to judge?” “Judge much?” “You’re judgmental.” It’s quite ironic that I see such statements on bodybuilding forums, a community in which the majority are always of people are constantly gauging where they are on the fitness and genetics ladder. Didn’t even Dave Tate have a scale in which he judged lifters from bad to good: “shit, suck, good, great”?

Who lives a successful or at least even-keeled life without judgment on a near day-to-day basis? It used to be that someone who expressed judgment was considered to have good taste. After all, if not for judgment, then everyone should go on a date with the first schmuck who winks at him or her and every father should accept his daughter marrying a scumbag! When my father-in-law accepted me as a future part of his family, I was judged, as necessary!

When I apply for a job, I am judged. When I interviewed people and reviewed their references and resume, I judged them, because it is appropriate for the profession and part of the job, and employers did the same for me, as they should!

Guilty people in court are condemned, judged.

The examples are endless, but even though even handicapped people and animals use judgement to live life as they can, droves of people (judgmental as they are too), are now expressing their dim views on judgment. These are the same people who have no problem saying stuff like, “I wouldn’t go there. It’s a bad neighborhood,” and “I wouldn’t send my kids to school there,” and “that guy’s not that strong.”

And here’s the seemingly simple qualification to judge others: be an ordinary, moral, civic-minded person. That’s it! That’s all that is need to use judgment to live one’s life safely, balanced, or even very successfully! So when someone asks me, “Who are you to judge?”, my answer is simple: “A grown man. That’s enough.”

[quote]killerDIRK wrote:
Powerpuff and Brickhead. ftr, I was Bar-mitzvahed on 18 May 1980…ring a bell ? Mount Saint Helens blew her top.
[/quote]

Nice. Mine was in 1993. It was nice. I’ve been an atheist since about seven years old, but of course always recognize my ethnicity/nationality is Jewish, part Sephardic, part Ashkenazi. I got married about three weeks ago with a liberal rabbi and a priest in a Catholic church, and always attend holiday events.

I think we have a mature group on here to discuss things with, instead of the basket cases I’ve seen on other internet forums. I developed into a pretty tolerant person and don’t want to see any mistreatment and I believe in this PC day and age, many people label others with differing views as hateful or misconstrue them as wanting to mistreat someone else because of some views they hold. Luckily those misinterpretations are not thrown around here.

Brickhead: It has been awefully respectfull around here, all things considered. This thread could have turned into such a shit show.

My grandfather grew up Orthodox Jew in Chicago, second generation. My father was brought up a little more conservative and I , reform.
My Father was born in 1925.

My Mother was born in Berlin in 1941, great timing huh?
She was brought up Lutherin, and then converted.

I left my underwear and beliefs in "gods’ behind the day after my bar-mitzvah.

My life has not been easy necessarily, but I am tigger/ Tigress living in a pooh like world.

Purposelessly wandering in and out of fantastic journeys…

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
There’s also a bit more to being a woman than “identifying” as a woman. A Facebook user explained this better than I can… because she is a woman! Obviously it’s a bit more complicated and deep than throwing a wig, makeup, and female clothing on, and getting plastic surgery and hormonal medication.

[i]I’ve heard you say you “identify as a woman”. But I find that highly unlikely and insulting. You see, Mr. Jenner, there is more to being a woman than beautiful gowns and fake boobs. There is more to being a woman than makeup and pretty hair. This is something we mothers begin teaching our young daughters at an early age.

As a woman of nearly 50 years, I can tell you what it is truly like to be a woman. You may be able to understand or even empathize, but you are definitely NOT able to “identify”. For instance, you will never know what it is like to wake up every 28 days with searing stomach pain so bad it doubles you over, yet still trot off to work or school as though everything is fine. You will never know what it is like to have your car break down on the side of the road and when a couple men stop to help your prayer is that their intentions are good because there is no way on earth you have the ability to physically hang let alone overpower them. You have no idea what it is like to long to have a child only to have your third miscarriage, yet still manage to be able to share in the joy of all the other young mothers in your life. You will never know what it’s like to get pregnant, gain 40 lbs (1/3 your total body weight), hurl all morning long for 4 months straight, yet still care for your other two toddlers, and not drive your husband to the brink. You will never know what it is like to give birth to a 10 lb. baby boy with absolutely no medication!!! You will never know what it is like at the age of 50 to be walking down the streets of Phoenix and popping in the Dairy Queen for a cool refreshing treat only to be gripped at that moment with your fourth hot flash of the day.

I have, in my life, met many women who have been widowed. For me to walk up to them and say I identify with them would be ludicrous. Like I said earlier, I can empathize with them, but I cannot identify myself as one of them because I don’t know what that is like - I can only imagine. And let’s not even talk about women who have worked through their double mastectomy.

No, Mr. Jenner there is more to being a woman than you could ever experience or even imagine. And lesson #1 for all true women is this - botox injections, plastic surgeries, designer clothing, and public approval is NOT what makes a woman. A real woman is one who in spite of the stretch marks, age spots, dirt under her nails and tired eyes, and even with 1/2 plastic photoshopped supermodels as her competition, she has carried herself in such a way that her family, husband, and children, see her real beauty and find her far more valuable than rubies or diamonds and they rise up and call her blessed.

Mr. Jenner you are a privileged white male living in the U.S.A. In fact, you are so free and so privileged, you can even spend your massive amounts of money to change your outward appearance to whatever you wish. That is NOT something most woman around the globe are free to do even if they wanted. MOST women in our world don’t even have access to a high school education. So, Mr. Jenner, I find your claim to identify as “a woman” disingenuous, uneducated, and honestly - quite offensive.[/i][/quote]

Does she need some cheese?

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:

Does she need some cheese?
[/quote]

Huh?

You know, as a radfem myself, I have some challenges with identity politics. But it bugs the fuck out of me when other radfems call out identity politics under the fucking retarded premise that we are true women because we bleed and suffer under patriarchy.

Sorry but my fucking period isn’t that big a deal, it doesn’t define me and you don’t get to tell me what a woman is EITHER.

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:

Does she need some cheese?
[/quote]

Huh? [/quote]

With all the fucking whine.

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
There’s also a bit more to being a woman than “identifying” as a woman. A Facebook user explained this better than I can… because she is a woman! Obviously it’s a bit more complicated and deep than throwing a wig, makeup, and female clothing on, and getting plastic surgery and hormonal medication.

[i]I’ve heard you say you “identify as a woman”. But I find that highly unlikely and insulting. You see, Mr. Jenner, there is more to being a woman than beautiful gowns and fake boobs. There is more to being a woman than makeup and pretty hair. This is something we mothers begin teaching our young daughters at an early age.

As a woman of nearly 50 years, I can tell you what it is truly like to be a woman. You may be able to understand or even empathize, but you are definitely NOT able to “identify”. For instance, you will never know what it is like to wake up every 28 days with searing stomach pain so bad it doubles you over, yet still trot off to work or school as though everything is fine. You will never know what it is like to have your car break down on the side of the road and when a couple men stop to help your prayer is that their intentions are good because there is no way on earth you have the ability to physically hang let alone overpower them. You have no idea what it is like to long to have a child only to have your third miscarriage, yet still manage to be able to share in the joy of all the other young mothers in your life. You will never know what it’s like to get pregnant, gain 40 lbs (1/3 your total body weight), hurl all morning long for 4 months straight, yet still care for your other two toddlers, and not drive your husband to the brink. You will never know what it is like to give birth to a 10 lb. baby boy with absolutely no medication!!! You will never know what it is like at the age of 50 to be walking down the streets of Phoenix and popping in the Dairy Queen for a cool refreshing treat only to be gripped at that moment with your fourth hot flash of the day.

I have, in my life, met many women who have been widowed. For me to walk up to them and say I identify with them would be ludicrous. Like I said earlier, I can empathize with them, but I cannot identify myself as one of them because I don’t know what that is like - I can only imagine. And let’s not even talk about women who have worked through their double mastectomy.

No, Mr. Jenner there is more to being a woman than you could ever experience or even imagine. And lesson #1 for all true women is this - botox injections, plastic surgeries, designer clothing, and public approval is NOT what makes a woman. A real woman is one who in spite of the stretch marks, age spots, dirt under her nails and tired eyes, and even with 1/2 plastic photoshopped supermodels as her competition, she has carried herself in such a way that her family, husband, and children, see her real beauty and find her far more valuable than rubies or diamonds and they rise up and call her blessed.

Mr. Jenner you are a privileged white male living in the U.S.A. In fact, you are so free and so privileged, you can even spend your massive amounts of money to change your outward appearance to whatever you wish. That is NOT something most woman around the globe are free to do even if they wanted. MOST women in our world don’t even have access to a high school education. So, Mr. Jenner, I find your claim to identify as “a woman” disingenuous, uneducated, and honestly - quite offensive.[/i][/quote]

Except for having a period once a month most of this implies a privileged white woman who never had kids is not a real woman either.