Oh yeah, forgot to say this.
Remember, “The One” is a program himself, so…think about it, the whole fricken prophecy is a program.
Back to Practicing new Matrix Moves! HAHAHA
The One is not really a program, but an anomaly. He is the result of an unbalanced equation that occurs as a result of human nature–the Machines, however, found a way to harness this anomaly, and control it, perfectly, and have probably done so for 500-700 years. If you think about how deep the sickness runs, think about the statement Morphious made in the first Matrix, “The Oracle…she freed the first of us,” or something along those lines. When you think about it, the Oracle did not really “free,” them, at least from the traditional, and human perspective. The Oracle is soooo twisted, I love the double edged remark she makes with Neo at the park bench when he asks her why she cares about the freedom fighters, “Because I know the future, and I don’t see either one of us in it without us together…” or something along those lines. Soooooo twisted, I think Neo needs to fuck an Oracle up now.
Anyway, I’m spent, I don’t even think this post made any sense. I’ll do something less painful than thinking about The Matrix now…maybe I’ll slam my ball sack with my two pood. Later.
I saw it twice already. I think the architect is God.
Guys, I think they will all do or Neo wil die for sure in Revelations.
1.Neo is a Jesus-like archetype.
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The architect gave him a choice: Save Trinity or Zion and the fate of mankind…He Choose Trinity.
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Neo performs so many miracles (more Jesus-like references) so he will have to sacrifice himself.
Whats behind that door with the bright light?
I saw it. Last night. A day after a tough strongman session, I was in the “sit back, relax, enjoy the ride” mode.
And I went into this with absolutely no expectations. I ended up leaving with the same empty feeling.
First of all:
I missed Tank. Tank, if you all recall, was the brother of Dozer in the first Matrix. While not a big part, he was important. He provided passion. With Trinity, Neo, and Morpheus being rather straight-faced through out the movie, Tank was the one who clearly believed, passionately that Neo was “the One”, and was willing to place his life for this belief. When Tank spoke about Zion; I wanted to go and see it myself. When he said he couldn’t wait to see what Neo could do; neither could I. I was so relieved when Tank survived, he seemed the most “human” of the Neb’s crew.
In Matrix: Reloaded, we have no Tank. Instead we have Link. Who, simply, is the comic relief. And is married to Zee; who provided the movie with the obligatory, “husband, you’re gone too long” speech that you see in so many movies; and I thought The Matrix would be above that. I was wrong.
Oh, it wasn’t bad. But the movie seemed to be more like action sequences being held together with gum wrapper philosophy, than something wholely cohesive and moving forward comfortably. Also, there was the “winking”.
By “wink” or “winking” I’m talking about the obvious moments in a film where you KNOW the filmmakers are winking at themselves for their glorious brilliance. It could be for a superlative action sequence, a shot in the movie that should make the audience pee in their pants, or some witty dialogue. Example:
after the obligatory fight scene between Neo and Seraph; the fight HAD to be explained…so the W. Bros had Seraph say, “the only way to really know someone is to fight them…” - “wink” for a moment of metaphor brilliance (“hey, try to figure that one out, audience…”), and/or to Joel Marion’s “Fun With Metaphors” thread.
The so-called “rave” scene: panning the caverns at thousands of “Zionites” moving, undulating…“wink” for a “look how much money we got goin’ up on the screen” and to Peter Jackson and WETA at their Massive technology for a “hey, we can do this too”.
Any or all of the philosphical babble between the action scenes: “wink” for “while it doesn’t really say anything at all, and doesn’t move the story forward, it sounds cool and important…”
The set designs: “wink” again for a 'got that money thing going up on the screen".
As for all the “Gwai-lo” or “round-eye” kung fu craziness: Okay. So, Neo is the One. He can stop bullets. He can fly faster than the S-Man. He can bring someone back to life in the Matrix. But he has to resort to Kung Fu to fight Agents. Uh huh. As for the fighting itself: Carrie Ann Moss was graceful and beautiful to watch. Keanu was slow and heavy handed; Fishburne was just waaaay too clunky (and needs to lose a few pounds). They needed Jet Li in this movie. I believe he was originally intended for “Seraph”. Too bad. He would have been perfect and would have given this movie some true “kung fu” pop. Also, the fight scenes DUH-RAGGED on. Like, they needed to be shaved by a few minutes. Overall, the movie was too long. And, how MANY endings does one movie need?
In the first Matrix, several members of the Neb dies. We knew their names. They all played a important part in the movement against the Machines. And when they died, you realized the risks involved. That there was something truly important going on in this movie and people were dying to fight for this cause. Decisions were being made with people’s lives at stake.
You had none of that in this movie. What was constantly being said was that Neo’s decision or “choice” was not important. It was only the understanding of why he made the decision that was. This, IMO, was a cop out and made it so that there was no inner conflict of the central character. So why should I care? And I didn’t. A few characters die, but we didn’t know there names. It’s as if the W. Bros weren’t willing to take the same risks as in the first. And in this, the story stalled. When the Keymaker dies, the audience (and myself) felt remorse. Yeah, the Keymaker is a program, but we all liked him. And felt touched when he died. I wanted more of this feeling for the movie.
TOO MUCH CGI. Especially during the fight scenes. Combined with “bullet time”, it was obvious and distracting. Took me out of the movie. The only action sequence that was truly breathtaking was the freeway scene with Trinity on the Ducati. That scene had a sense of danger, especially after knowing that Carrie Ann Moss performed her own driving. Very cool. They need to make her (Trinity) more “bad ass” - the W. Bros always wimp out on her character, right when she’s about to become stronger, they tone her down. Bastards.
Some things I caught: Roy Jones, Jr. - cool. Anthony Zerbe, who was also the big bad in The Omega Man and has been in countless others 70’s flicks and series. Daniel Bernhardt from the “Bloodsport” movies in here as a Agent. And it was nice to see Geof Darrow with a big old credit as “Conceptual Artist/Designer”. And Steve Scroce with storyboard credits. Two very good artists.
Oh, I gotta end this here, now. I liked it, don’t get me wrong. I see it this way: I liken it to a beer. A really, really good beer that has been sitting out for awhile. It’s warm and flat. But still better than the other beers in the fridge.
Fitone,
I take it the scene you refer to is the fight before Neo meets The Oracle?
Well, gee there fella, The Keymaker kinda looks asian to me, or because he doesn’t fight does he not count???
The number of top fighter/actors is very low, both the eg’s you gave are aisan. Are you suggesting that to be considered a realistic MA you need to be asian? The fight scenes in all movies are coreographed the actor being a top fighter makes it more ‘flashy’ and exciting, after all the aim is entertainment. The Matrix actors trained for months so they could put up realistic performances. BTW Bruce Lee is obsolete mainly due to the fact he is dead.
Ummmmmm, no.
[quote]But. I am getting tired of seeing people that don’t know anything about martial arts all of a sudden become great ones on film.[/quote] So they aren’t allowed to improve their fight skills to get more parts etc, yet fighters can take acting lessons to get more parts?
[quote]Like what’s up Chow Yung Fat he’s playing more roles that involved w/ kung fu fighting scene. Where his true skills are acting and gun battle scence. Give me a f- break. [/quote] That is what the west knows him as, like it or not, he can always turn the movies down. A specialist gun battle actor? I have never come accross that before.
Exactly patricia, you nailed it. One thing that bothered me, was in the first movie evryone avoided the agents. Now we have people going toe to toe with them and holding their own. If Neo is the one and so much faster than these boys, he should have whomped them pretty quick.
I think the people involved with the film believed their press clippings to much. I expected more than okay.
Thank you, Hyphnz for that post!
Another thing: Not ALL Asians are martial artists. And Chow Yun Fat has performed kung fu in his earlier films. And Yuen Wo Ping, who again performed the fight choreography (this time, along with his brother), in this film is the BEST in the biz as what he does. Which is why the W. Bros. hired him. It just happens he’s Chinese (Cantonese, to be exact).
Oh, and there have been British actors who have performed as Americans in films, as well as Americans who have performed as British. Cantonese have performed as Mandarin; Actors from New York have performed as Southerners. Is this a travesty? Nope. Just acting. Same as Keanu, Lawrence et al learning martial arts to better their roles.
Oh, and something I forgot to add in my initial “review”: Lambert Wilson as the Merovingian. He was terrific. He certainly chewed up his screen time. Wonderful. Of course, there is something to be said when the only memorable line of this movie is, “…wiping your ass with silk…” LOVED the execution of that line.
Monica Belluci: certainly one of the most beautiful women on screen today; however, ya couldn’t tell that by this movie. I’m not sure if she’s suppose to have looked “hardened”, but she did. And yes, I know of the mythology behind “Persephone”. And did y’all know that she has worked before with Keanu? In “Bram Stoker’s Dracula”. She was one of the Brides of Dracula. Wee movie trivia for ya.
Hey did any of you guys check out the revolutions trailer after the credits? That trailer is better than the whole matrix 2 movie. It looks like morpheus goes after the oracle(you see him fighting the asian guard guy), Agent Smyth got really powerful(punching neo away)and it also looks like there will be a lot of fighting in the real world.
Apparently no one noticed that Apok was alive!!! Woohoooo I was the only one to catch that. It was when they entered Zion I think the first time. He’s sitting the operating something. I thought he died in the first one when they pulled his plug. Makes me think that there is many Matrix’s or that the real world is also a computer simulation. Possibly there is no real human bodies. Infact the whole idea that the machines get energy from humans is lacking. How you ask? Well okay yes we produce so many btu’s of heat something insanely low like 14 per hour ooooooh the power. So many watts of power…again really low. Ignoring the fact that it’s really low power production we still have the problem of where did we get it from? Food! Well why don’t the machines save some fucking time and burn the food and have a more direct transfer of energy. As everytime energy is converted some is lost as other forms of energy. Hey wait the energy for food comes from the sun via photosynthesis oh wait the sun is blocked out. Oh yeah we feed the dead to the living. How long do you think that will last? The warchoski brothers have never heard of the law of conservation of energy “matter/energy cannot be created of destroyed”. I know I’m reading way too much into it but it irks me when they think the audience is that dumb. Also way too much cgi. Cgi should be to enhance a movie not be it. That being said it was still a good movie. The highway fight scene and the palace fight scene kicked ass. So did serpahs or whatever the asian dude’s name was. Jada Pinkett looked hot to me. I guess I always fall for the short chicks…4’11". And clearly Patricia is not a lesbian because Monica Bellucie looked damn hot in that movie. She didn’t look hardened to me. But she did make me…ahhhhhh never mind. As for getting the animatrix I ordered mine a few weeks ago. Go into a comic store and pick up a copy of previews you should be able to order it through the store. nkeago. Ciao. 
I saw it tonight for the second time, and I didn’t realize till today that Persephone is wearing a white PVC dress!!!
Cool!
The Love scene with Neo and Trinity was well done. I felt like she mothered him a bit too much through out…
Oh and of cores they have to put Trinity on a Ducati, ouch what a tease,
such a lucky girl!
I grew up playing Fast-ball, I don’t know about any one else that likes Ball but the scene after Neo see’s the Oracle, when he gets the poll is sooooooo NICE!
Nothing like a good solid connection on the sweet spot! Makes me wanna find a Beer league.
Any one else find the fight sequence MUSIC ? BIT? At least till the end (when Neo fights Merovingian’s men) but for the most part the music was way too dramatic.
And Merovingian was electric, witty and smooth. Loved the wine goblets with Gold trim on their table… And did any one catch the first time viewing that he states to Neo that he “has escaped his predecessors, and will escape him too” I didn’t, I remember hearing it, but not able to process it.
The Architect- Air go, Air go, Air go?
I think when used once, it comes off impressive but 2-3 times is just annoying.
I agree that Trinity has to step up, her strength is so understated.
And Fuck did the scene with Persephone black mailing Neo for a kiss ever bother me… Bitch, Nice reaction Trinity had.;>)
Fishburne was Chunky! Noticeable on the Freeway shot.
But I must say, I had such a hard time sitting still, the scenes where so motivating I felt like going for a run, or to the gym.
Last I LOVED the opening Shot
HOT CHICK ON A HOT BIKE + BLACK PVC + FLIPEN AND EXSPLOSIONS + HELMET BASHING + SUPER FLEXATION OVER THE SHOULDER KICKS + GRACEFULL LANDING IN (SPIDER MAN LIKE POSE) =
Fan Fricken Tastic!
Ohh ya ???.Over all - Me like-y :0)
So no one else saw Apok was alive from the first Matrix? It was a blantant shot. The camera sits on him for like 10 seconds showing just his face for no other reason that I could think of except to say he’s alive.
ditto to what Patricia said.
The movie dragged. Rave/sex sense was not needed and did not help the movie out.
Some fight scenes were too long.
But lets face it, we are all going to be back in the theaters in November.
"Any or all of the philosphical babble between the action scenes: “wink” for “while it doesn’t really say anything at all, and doesn’t move the story forward, it sounds cool and important…”
That’s what I thought the first time I watched it, but it was definitely better the second time. All the philosophical psychobabble seems to lead to the point where Neo discovers the truth, instead of being just psychobabble.
“you think you know why you are here but you don’t”, etc, is because he knew the truth that Neo didn’t yet. And as far as the Oracle’s speech on the “illusion of choice”, the first time I thought “yeah whatever some bastardized ripoff of Buddhism” but the second time I realized that speech is explained by the Architect, where he says the Oracle can give humans certain choices, and predict with 99% accuracy what they will do, meaning they set Neo up (and the 5 anomalies before him).
Since the machine can’t stop the One from appearing, they created the prophecy, knowing humans would try to make it come true (by freeing “good” people that would make the “right” choice), and when the One appeared, instead of just deciding to do whatever, they set him up (and lied to him) to trick him into doing what the machines wanted (go to the core to download himself).
Each time when the One would learn the truth (that taking down the Matrix would kill everyone), he downloads himself into the Mainframe, thinking he’s saving humanity temporarily, but thus gives the machines more knowledge about how to control human minds.
But yeah the rave scene, and the scene where he sends the cake over to the woman, I mean come on we are not 13 year old boys.
The previous incarnations of the ONE choose to save Zion but this NEO decides to save Trinity instead because of love. Is this right?
I was confused because when NEO talks to the architect, in the background, the screens show the previous NEO’s reactions. Yet when NEO decides to save Trinity, all the screens show what appears to be the present. I thought that the other NEOs choose to save Trinity.
Here is what I think…
The movie overall…a winner
a cocktease of course, but still a winner.
Pros
-Fight scenes
-Gratuitous boobies in the jungle rave
-Story line
-The Oracle fucking with my head, again.
-Freeway scene
-The choco-aphrodesiac cake
-Persephone’s dress
-General Motors represented throughout
-Roy Jones Jr.
Cons
-Length of the Jungle Rave Scene
-CGI ad nauseum
-The abscence of Tank
-Ergo Ergo Ergo
-some of the fight scene music sounding like a cross between “Batman” and “Jaws”
-Persephone could have got naked.
-The kid when they first came into Zion
and…
-Not too Many guns this time around. I longed for the choreography of the gunfights from the first one.
Here is what I think is the biggest difference between the first and the second films;
In the first Matrix, Neo said to Trinity… “We need guns…”
In second Matrix, Neo said to Trinity… “I need you…”
Good movie, can’t wait for the third instalment.
Brad
I saw the movie for a second time yesterday and found it a lot easier to understand what the architect was saying, and it seems like Zion is a recycling bin (like on your computer) The 1 percent of people who reject the program must be guided too Zion, via the Oracles “prophecies” and once they build up enough people the sentinels “empty the trash” This way keeps it so the architects non perfet matrix has basically no flaws, except the anomally of the one. But, then again, the found a way to use the neo to do what they wanted him too. And as to people who say that Keanu is not a believable martial artist because of the fact that hes white and stuff need to check themselves. You know the “price is right” host? That old guy? Well he has been studying gojukai karate for over 20 years and holds a 4th degree black belt. And he’s about as unlikely a fighter as you get. Martial Arts are not limited to certain races,cultures or lifestyles.So what makes Keanu an unbelievable martial artist? In my opinion nothing.
I didn’t think that the screens behind Neo were playing scenes of previous incarnations reactions, I thought that they were displaying the possible reactions he might have had. That whole choice thing again. I totally missed out on Smith cloning himself onto that human, I thought it was a dream sequence, so now it makes sense to me, thanks for clearing that up. When I saw the scene with the architect, I was reminded of Total Recall, when that guy walks into Arnolds room and tries to convince him that he’s still in a simulation. I thought that the guy was lying to him, and trying to persuade him to destroy himself. Why trust him? And lastly, I left before the previews, so now I have to go back and see it again.
One more thing; I’ve always had trouble taking Keaneu Reeves seriously. I keep seeing him saying “Strange things are afoot at the Circle K” Classic film.
The screens where showing the possible reactions of Neo. Remember the mathamatical probabilities. I’m still not sure if the Archetec(spelling to tired to care.) ment that the previous “Ones” were previous incarnations of people with the soul of the one…or actual previous versions of Neo. I guess it depends on if you think that they ever got outside the matrix. The whole I can stop sentinals thing makes me think that there is no real world. So if there is a real world I think that the previous ones were other people with his soul if not then actual copies of Neo. However I think Matt and Chris made alot of sense. Ciao.
Here’s a fun quote from Joel Silver regarding Reeves fighting abilities:
“Everything that could happen did,” says Silver, the action-film producer (“Lethal Weapon,” “Swordfish”). “But all the training was essential to making this movie what it was. Keanu hates for me to say this, but I swear he could take (Hong Kong action star) Jet Li one on one. He got that good. I mean, obviously, we all had a lot to live up to.”
Keanu was stiff in every fighting
scene he had. The actor who played Seraph outfought him IMO. As to whether or not he could take Jet Li (5x men’s all around wushu champion of China, been practicing martial arts for 30+ years)… lol.