Its coming toward the end of my undergrad degree (Arts with Specialization in Communications) I have this semester and another 3 courses to go. I will graduate with an approximate B+ to A- average in Dec '10. (Ie 7.9 GPA out of 10.)
What is everyone’s take, on what would be more useful at this point given economy, opportunities etc?
Few things to consider/ponderings that have occured to me
-I don’t know what I want to do with my life.
-Masters would only take 1 year, so I could do Law Degree after, if I got into Law I’m certain I would not go back for a masters. (It would be Masters of Organizational Communication).
-Master’s would be easier to get into, I’m on the cusp with Law and have few extra cirriculars ie difficult.
-Law Degree opens more, but would rack up huge debt.
-Law is way more specific and focused
-Masters Degree is cheaper, TAing job that comes along with it would pay for it essentially.
I’m also going to consult an Academic and Career Advisor, but the people generally employed at my university for this don’t strike me as the best for life advice.
Any thoughts or questions are welcome, the more I write and think about this the more it will help me.
Maybe get a part time job in a law office next semester while your course load is manageable? From my own experience working with recent graduates in a law office, many want to see what its like before making the decision to go to law school. A good number realize its not for them and avoid wasting a ton of time and resources.
I wouldn’t go to law school unless I actually thought I wanted to practice law. Sure, there are a lot of transferrable skills, but lawyers generally decide use those transferrable skills when they realize they hate practicing law.
I was in a similar position as you when I finished my BA in May '08. The fact that you don’t know what you want to do suggests that you shouldn’t do law. Its three years of really hard work, super expensive, and the job market for new law graduates is tough. I would say that unless you’ve done a ton of research on it and understand how a law degree will fit into your plan for your life, don’t do it. I think too many people go after a law degree blindly, and end up getting burned.
If the masters is only one year and you can be a TA, go for it. I just finished an MA in political science and I had a good time. It took me a year and half and I was a TA, so it didn’t cost me much. I made some good friends, and I gained a much clearer perspective on what opportunities were out there in my field. I also got a better sense of what I want to do, where I want to be, and how to get there. Networking with older professionals in your classes is valuable and enlightening, and your professors can be a great resource as well in terms of developing a plan. Plus, you get all the perqs of being on a college campus: girls, and easy access to a gym with a schedule flexible enough to allow you to get in there.
I’m graduating this may with a degree in engineering and I had thought about getting a masters or my mba. what I found from talking to people in industry is that getting a masters without having experience can hurt you in your job search. You end up with a higher education (meaning they need to pay you more) but you aren’t worth more as an employee who’s straight out of undergrad.
My advice would be to get experience in your field and think about a masters after 3-5 years. That’s what my plan is anyway
[quote]CGspot wrote:
I’m graduating this may with a degree in engineering and I had thought about getting a masters or my mba. what I found from talking to people in industry is that getting a masters without having experience can hurt you in your job search. You end up with a higher education (meaning they need to pay you more) but you aren’t worth more as an employee who’s straight out of undergrad.
My advice would be to get experience in your field and think about a masters after 3-5 years. That’s what my plan is anyway[/quote]
This suggestion is premised on the assumation that I have a field to work in… I’m in Communications. There’s not exactly a specific field out there for me. Besides I think the only way your premise that I would need to be paid more would be relevant is if I insisted on it.
What employer is going to think don’t offer 40 thousand a year to the Masters student, lets get the high school degree applicant he’ll probably accept. They’ll offer the more educated person the same salary and move on if he declines, no?
Here’s another question. Assuming I got worse marks in Masters than in my undergrad (though still decent) would the Masters degree aid in my application or hinder it given the lower average?
You don’t just “get a master’s degree” and decide what to do with it. You should get a professional job, and keep your expenses low. If you decide you like that field you should quit the job then go back to school full time for a master’s that will help you in that field.
You have to be passionate about something to get a master’s or beyond in it… you’ll know this when you’re sitting there writing page after page on your thesis just to have to go in front of your committee and defend what you wrote on a conceptual level.
Why did you go to college?
Why did you choose Art with a specialization in Communication?
I’m with msd0060, getting a masters is basically like obtaining a specialization in a certain field. If you are unsure how to utilize this specialization then its sort of useless practicum.
That said, if you’re really interested in communications and feel that you need more expertise in that area in order to make an informed decision on how you want to apply your degree towards you vocational goals, then I would go for it, especially if it will only take one more year of study. But, like I said, there has to be a genuine interest in the field of study. Otherwise you’ll be wasting your time.
A masters in communication seems like a seamless transition from your undergrad degree. The law degree, on the other hand, is an altogether different field. If you don’t know whether you want to be a lawyer, you should figure that out before you attempt a law degree.
FWIW, I’ve been through countless years of school and still teach at the graduate level. I find that students who have worked either when in school or who have taken time off are generally more well rounded and have a better grasp on how to apply the information they obtain in the real world.
Higher education is both rewarding and completely frustrating, at least it was for me, so don’t rush into it if you’re not sure whether you really know what you want to study or what you plan to do with your degree. Taking time off isn’t a bad idea - the ivory towers will still be there in a year or two if you decide that you really want/need more schooling.
You could also join some kind of volunteer organization (maybe go to Haiti?) for a year and get your head together. Don’t jump into a degree program that probably won’t help you in the long run just because you think you lack options.
[quote]MementoMori wrote:
What employer is going to think don’t offer 40 thousand a year to the Masters student, lets get the high school degree applicant he’ll probably accept. They’ll offer the more educated person the same salary and move on if he declines, no?[/quote]
No. They don’t. They’ll view a low-ball offer to an over-qualified candidate as an insult and as a waste of time for both them and you. As a best case scenario, IF you make the case to them as to why you are so eager to work for them that you’re willing to take this low-ball offer, they will very likely assume that 1) you just need a paycheck and will be looking to move on/up ASAP, leaving them with a vacancy and a second job candidate search or 2) you are damaged goods in some way shape or form, ie What’s wrong with him that the best job he can get is one for which he’s grossly overqualified? Finally, even if all of this doesn’t come to pass, you have to ask yourself if you really want to work for a company who treats people that way, ie offering well below the market rate just to see if they’ll take it. That’s taking advantage, and while we dont live in a perfect world where things are always fair, taking advantage of your own people (or clients, vendors, etc) is just bad business.
Businesses aren’t always looking to hire the candidate w the most impressive resume. If you’re hiring for an 8th grade math teacher it doesn’t matter that one candidate was a rocket scientist at NASA. His experience is irrelevant at teaching 13 year olds how to graph, or do whatever it is we all did in 8th grade math
In response to your original question, my advice is that you NOT go to law school. Putting aside what is logically the most beneficial, you clearly dont want to. You list one argument half in favor of law school and then 4 or 5 that are strongly against
This is not ment as a direct attack on you, but something I have noticed with a lot (almost all) the under graduates lately… When I started college (01 so it was not that long ago) my professors always stressed summer internships and co-ops… Lately this seems foreign to most students. How can you decide on a major / carreer when you have never worked it before.
I started as a mechanical engineer but after a few internships realized that ment shop manager or sitting in front of a computer all day… While shop manager would be cool, one of my internships was in a foundry and got me hooked on metal casting so I did a masters in metallurgical engineering… during that I realized I love teaching and TAing and am workin on a PhD so I can teach…
I guess what I am saying is go get a few co-ops / internships and figure it out… dont spend 6+ years in school only to realize you hate what you go trained to do…
[quote]msd0060 wrote:
You don’t just “get a master’s degree” and decide what to do with it. You should get a professional job, and keep your expenses low. If you decide you like that field you should quit the job then go back to school full time for a master’s that will help you in that field.
You have to be passionate about something to get a master’s or beyond in it… you’ll know this when you’re sitting there writing page after page on your thesis just to have to go in front of your committee and defend what you wrote on a conceptual level.
Why did you go to college?
Why did you choose Art with a specialization in Communication?[/quote]
The Masters would be by course work, not Thesis, so essentially it would just be another year of Undergrad with another title tacked on.
I went to college because I didn’t know what to do and it seemed a natural progression.
I chose Communications because first I chose International Development and Globalization, then switched to Ethics and Society then switched to Communications. After that there was no opportunity to switch again because I had used all my electives, so I was stuck whether I liked it or not.
I think I would have enjoyed business more, but to switch at this point or do it after this degree would be 8 years for 2 undergrads. In that time I could have either a Masters or a Law Degree so does not seem useful.
[quote]Ratchet wrote:
This is not ment as a direct attack on you, but something I have noticed with a lot (almost all) the under graduates lately… When I started college (01 so it was not that long ago) my professors always stressed summer internships and co-ops… Lately this seems foreign to most students. How can you decide on a major / carreer when you have never worked it before.
I started as a mechanical engineer but after a few internships realized that ment shop manager or sitting in front of a computer all day… While shop manager would be cool, one of my internships was in a foundry and got me hooked on metal casting so I did a masters in metallurgical engineering… during that I realized I love teaching and TAing and am workin on a PhD so I can teach…
I guess what I am saying is go get a few co-ops / internships and figure it out… dont spend 6+ years in school only to realize you hate what you go trained to do…[/quote]
I know what you mean, I really should have gotten internships. I’ve been working full time or near full time since second year but the jobs have been useless in terms of careers (ie call center, retail, barscene, restaurants) This summer I will be looking for something more practical.
Things I’m considering are corrections services Canada, Law Office, Advertising.
Basically reason I don’t want to take time off from school is because I don’t want to get comfortable and waste a year just working in the barscene.
i think u really should research the market for lawyers in the usa. And be aware that some universities and the ABA are being sued for inflating stats on how many law school grads get jobs as lawyers!!!
Don’t do law as a fallback, don’t do it for the money, only do law if u want to be a lawyer. Otherwise you’re just getting some superexpensive transferablle skills that you could have gained elsewhere for less.
[quote]xylitol wrote:
i think u really should research the market for lawyers in the usa. And be aware that some universities and the ABA are being sued for inflating stats on how many law school grads get jobs as lawyers!!!
Don’t do law as a fallback, don’t do it for the money, only do law if u want to be a lawyer. Otherwise you’re just getting some superexpensive transferablle skills that you could have gained elsewhere for less. [/quote]
I live in Canada and would practice here, not USA.
[quote]theOUTLAW wrote:
Here’s a practice LSAT question:
Of the following, which would a reasonable person pick if the end result of each course of action was a job at McDonald’s?
A. Get a degree in communications.
B. Spend more money and get a masters in communications.
C. Spend even more money and get a law degree.[/quote]
My current job pays 3 times a Mcdonalds salary, so worse case Ontario I can I waste money on all 3 and still end up slightly better than that. I can’t go back in time and unpick my useless undergad, so have to go forward from there.
I’m finishing my law degree this semester. For most people, I would strongly encourage NOT getting a law degree.
There are objectively far too many attorneys in this country. Assuming you can do ANYTHING right now, the chances are that you will not increase your income potential significantly by going to law school, and chances are you will end up saddled with $60k+ of debt.
Now, I would suggest taking a few practice LSATs to see how well you do. If you get a score of over 163 or so, you could probably get a full scholarship to a number of pretty decent schools. A free law degree is pretty nice.
Even then, you still need to do very well in law school to make a decent sum. I think the average attorney salary in my area is probably no more than $80k, even with years and years of experience. This is really quite low for a person with a professional degree. To make serious money ($100k starting, for example) you not only need to do EXTREMELY well in law school (beating 145 of your 150 of your classmates) but you also need to be willing to work 55 or 60 hour weeks FOREVER.
Even if you get a free law degree, and would do well enough to make it worthwhile, and don’t mind working most of your working hours, there is still the question as to whether you actually want to practice law. Nearly all lawyers, including litigators, sit at their desks all day looking through documents for very precise details. I have worked at two law firms over the past two years, and the work is very rarely exciting. It is often very isolated–I often would go days and days without ever really talking to someone for more than a few minutes. And most attorneys bill by the six-minute increment, so for most of those you do talk to will scoot you out the door as quickly as possible.
If what attracts you about being at attorney has anything to do with any TV shows, then run as fast as possible from the profession. On the other hand, if you want to be an attorney because you have read some court case and find subtle distinctions fascinating, go for it.
Oh, also, I want to throw dumbbells at anyone who says that law school opens up doors. No. It does not. Law school trains you how to be an attorney. You are hopelessly unqualified for any non-law profession. And while plenty of JDs go on to get non-law jobs, it likely had very, very little to do with their law degree. There are no non-law professions for which a law degree is the best qualification.