The first lesson I teach these kids before I teach them to box is a lesson about Fear, about what Fear is and why we have it. Fear is like a fire. If you control it, as we do when we heat our houses, it is a friend. When you don’t, it consumes you and everything you do and everything around you.
– Cus D’Amato
[quote]Miss Parker wrote:
I agree with this, but I’m frequently afraid during training. Last night before & even during sparring there were moments when I was afraid.
I think the growth comes because I do the thing I’m afraid of, I’m learning to make a habit of overcoming my fear instead of letting it stop me. I don’t know that there will ever come a time when I don’t experience fear before a challenge, but that would be nice!
[/quote]
Well this is true…but…
You are not courageous if you face something you do not fear. Someone who isn’t afraid of roller coasters and gets on one is not brave but someone who is terrified of heights and gets on a roller coaster is.
This is what i mean by do not be afraid. There will always be fear, but you are not afraid if you are able to face it, no matter how bad your knees are shaking.
Does that make sense? I know it’s kinda contradicting :\
“Courage first; power second; technique third.”
If i could add anything to my list and sum it up:
-fighting is the most mentally and physically enriching thing you can experience.
“A warrior may choose pacifism; others are condemned to it.”
I suppose I am in the minority here in believing that martial arts are as valuable as their physical component. While they do impart lessons on discipline, fear, listening to your elders, I feel that most physical activities and sports have similar lessons to be learned.
At the end of the day however, for ME, a martial art is the physical skills and tools it provides you, and if those are not useful then I am not interested. For development and growth of the mind I prefer academia.
[quote]Miss Parker wrote:
blazindave wrote:
The philosophy is one that depends on the individual but a general theme is present:
-Do not be afraid
-Never give up, never surrender
-Push yourself
-Have confidence and belief in yourself
-Control of your emotions (you dont freak out if someone starts attacking you)
And also i like what sifu said.
If you’ve gotten in a fight then you’ve already neglected the philosophy.
A true martial artist is humble and knows that fighting is not something that is “cool” but something that comes out of necessity (in relation to the situation) and is very serious. Fighting is something you can avoid.
Being open minded
Basically the philosophy is about being a better person.
I agree with this, but I’m frequently afraid during training. Last night before & even during sparring there were moments when I was afraid.
I think the growth comes because I do the thing I’m afraid of, I’m learning to make a habit of overcoming my fear instead of letting it stop me. I don’t know that there will ever come a time when I don’t experience fear before a challenge, but that would be nice!
[/quote]
Since I don’t know what your class is like (you might have good reason to be scared) I’ll make this a general suggestion. The more time you put into fighting the easier it gets.
My primary teacher for many years had us spend a good deal of our class fighting and we went at it hard enough that you could get hurt. While one of the other schools I trained at didn’t spend as much time fighting. I got more injuries at that school than I did at my primary school.
What I learned is that if you fight on a regular basis to the point that it becomes routine it becomes a lot less intimidating. I also found out that people get a lot less hyped up and excited over fighting at my regular class because we did it on a regular basis, which actually made it safer.
The down side of this philosophy is if you are in a break the body school, it can become overwhelming. We used to lose a lot of students by overwhelming them and destroying their confidence.
So another thing I have learned is there is an art to teaching women martial arts. Generally speaking you can’t treat them like they are just little men and beat the hell out of them like they are one of the guys. Because it is easier to destroy their confidence.
You’re right, I need to fight more & have recently spoken to my teachers about this. Thanks, sifu. 
This thread started out a bit weak but has a lot of potential.
Martial Arts Philosophy.
Make no mistake, this is a heavyweight which we engage here.
Ultimately, its kind of a fallacy; the art of war is killing people, in the most practical, economic, easiest manner.
And that could be it.
End of discussion?
Martial Arts Philosophy derived from the humans need to see beyond things.
Why do we kill?
When we kill, how could it be OK? Can it ever be OK?
Every culture deals with the dilemma and tries to solve one or more problems.
For instance, having the need for a horde of young, reckless and potentially bloodthirsty killers can definitely disturb the peace. Is there a way to channel their eventual violent behaviour? Perhaps into something more productive?
Since warriors, especially the upper echelon, often enjoyed a special treatment by society(take the japanese saying for example: “the warrior is among men what the cherry blossom is among flowers”), the issue was touchy. Rarely do you see the spiritual aspects played down, rather the opposite.
Also, as we all know, history is a selective, spoiled bitch.
When people think of knights, they think of gallant heroes in shining armour, not some unwashed marauders, like most contemporaries probably did.
Someone here mentioned Tsunetomo. While an interesting book, it has actually very little to do with the real world of Samurai. But most people want to desperately believe that violence has a beautiful face. Same reason why the hero in films usually “has” to kick the other guy’s butts (who happen to misuse/understand the art of war and ultimately can be defeated because of that). Rarely do you see protagonist who’s just keeping his head down.
Also interesting to note here, while returning to the unarmed Arts is the tendancy that the most one dimensional thug-heros on the Silver Screen(Steven Seagal et al) usually scream the loudest about spirituality and philosophy. I have a hunch why that is so.
It never ceases to amaze me how many people even today want to see things that aren’t there, at the very least no exclusively in martial arts.
Painting can teach you character. Cooking can make you explore the depths of your inner self.
And to those who interject with “but you have to face your fears in martial arts” I say, sure, but so does balancing across a rope.
And yet some will insist: “You cannot compare the difficulties and hardships one has to overcome to face an opponent in the ring with a bunch of trivial and pointless activities.”
This path, however, is a minefield.
Tread on it furthermore to come to the conclusion that the most noble thing to shape one’s character is … to go to war.
Like when Sarah Palin was speaking of her son -the poor kid with Down Syndrome- as “beautiful”, I cringe everytime someone tells me about his “inner quest”.
Martial Arts is one ugly motherfucker.
Who do you want to confuse?
I hope not yourself.
Good post.
However cant you argue that the only people who know how bad war is, is the ones who have lived it?
It’s this understanding of fighting that (hopefully) makes you take it seriously and humbles you in a way which is for the better.
A fine assertion.
I’ll try to appraoch it from more then one angle.
Primo
You can be humbled in anything, by anything. Being bad in your job means you get fired, many feel they lose their dignity when applying for unemployment aid.
But:
You could rightfully point out that the humbling in all things martial is unique in so far that the pie comes immediately as a loss, pain, the fist your face.
Even the pathetic bankers who destroyed billions had often little to fear personally.
Not so in in the gym where you pay cash with pain.
Onto which I ask -secundo;
So that means martial artists usually do get meeker as they advance?
Now this something I can’t really approve.
A lot (and I mean A FKN LOT) of advanced martial artists and champions I met are part time thugs.
Only a few weeks ago, I heard that a brilliant fighter who I knew from boxing nearly ten years back has been allegedly approached by a dutch top team. Chances are, he won’t make it because he’ll be doing some time. At last I hope so. A killer’s fist, a rat’s heart.
Then we got the legions of McDojos, where an obese sensei is getting his rocks off for teaching doe eyed teenagers some kata he saw in a chinese movie. Of course he wants humble students, he’s teaching them the deadly chi-knife palm! This sack of shit realized his worthlessness long ago, he knows he doesn’t stand a chance against the average bar brawler. That’s why he practically preaches a humble attitude; that’s the only chance he has to be respected as a warrior.
I really have a problem with that conclusion.
Tertio
Not all are humbled- biological approach
In fact, some, especially the reckless and hot blooded ones, don’t let themselves humble. They rather take offense.
The traditional age of entering warriorhood in the savage parts of the muslim world begins when the male individual reaches around 15 years of age. Similar for most tribal societies.
However, the male brain, especially the regions which control long term choices, reaches adulthood at around age 25.
So, for most part, the young troublemakers aren’t driven by reason. A slice of humblepie? Nay, they’d rather have a steak, and prefer it raw.
Just ask serious martial artists who’ve been there some time, (including coaches/ trainers/ sifus etc.) A big group of them -perhaps even the majority) will tell that in their younger years they were quite the troublemakers.
The difference between the west and the thirld world, however, is huge and while our young troublemakers start martial arts and fight in bars, to feel humbling and remorse in their late twenties, their’s take the machete and kalashnikov, to die a violent death while still a kid.
Quarto
Tis true that (war) vets are often very cautious about starting a fight (going to war)
That implies to go through the curriculum beforehand.
In other words, boys have to feel how shitty pain is to detest it as grown men.
Fine to me, because it means that a school brawl will ensure no one dies in a knife fight ten years later.
But things rather tend to escalate. And in our modern societies, would be warriors galdly step in where battle veterans would see unnecessary foolhardiness.
You don’t see Bin Laden strapping on a bomb. The spoiled billionaire brat is instead cheered as a Robin Hood.
Bush, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Cheney… they all didn’t see action in Nam, so they sent out the troops.
Especially in this age, there will always be enough politicians and presidents who never put foot in a gym or a soldier’s boot.
They don’t hesitate to drive a young generation of unhumbled warriors into the trenches.
That is fine but you just pointed out those who did not follow the philosophy.
Martial arts does have a philosophy (i like to think anyway)…some people reject that and look at it purely from a sport/physical point of view.
Those would be the retards you speak of.
It could be that in the end the philosophy is what you make of it.
Ich wiess es nichts shrug
Scwarz, not that I don’t agree with the bits and pieces that I understand of what you wrote, but I’m just asking- what’s your point?
I’m not being a dick, either, I’m just curious exactly what your position is. Or… ah, what the question was.
I understand the hypocrisy that goes on in a mass scale in martial arts, though, and I agree with you there, certainly. I left one dojo when the sensei tried to pull a “If you strike them right here, he won’t get hurt immediately but it could kill him in a month.” It’s a very respected man in the system I studied, too, I almost couldn’t believe that he was telling people this garbage.
I honestly enjoyed the pieces about philosophy, and humbling yourself, but that’s an eternal fight for me because I’m a young swaggering asshole. However, the lessons, I think are starting to take hold the more I do my own research on MA and train on my own (as well as… well, getting older).
But I just have a huge problem with selling off fake shit to people, especially women, and telling them, “No, no, this would work, it would save you” when I know for a fact it wouldn’t do shit except maybe piss the guy off more.
MA has become the ultimate hustler’s game. That’s part of the reason I’ve stayed away from any more TMA’s- I dig them, but there’s so many shit teachers out there that I don’t trust anyone. You could learn more about defending yourself by watching a De La Hoya fight than by listening to their garbage.
[quote]blazindave wrote:
Good post.
However cant you argue that the only people who know how bad war is, is the ones who have lived it?
It’s this understanding of fighting that (hopefully) makes you take it seriously and humbles you in a way which is for the better.[/quote]
I may have misunderstood, but are you comparing fighting in a dojo, a boxing ring or even a cage with actual warfare? I don’t really think there is any correlation.
As I said earlier, I see martial arts as a collection of physical tools and skills and agree with a lot of things that Swarz.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
MA has become the ultimate hustler’s game. That’s part of the reason I’ve stayed away from any more TMA’s- I dig them, but there’s so many shit teachers out there that I don’t trust anyone. You could learn more about defending yourself by watching a De La Hoya fight than by listening to their garbage.[/quote]
Irish, I wholeheartedly agree with the resentment towards the McDojos boom, but “You could learn more about defending yourself by watching a De La Hoya fight than by listening to their garbage” have produced more armchair MMA/TMA experts (with nasty attitude to boot) than anything I can think of.
[quote]mldj wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
MA has become the ultimate hustler’s game. That’s part of the reason I’ve stayed away from any more TMA’s- I dig them, but there’s so many shit teachers out there that I don’t trust anyone. You could learn more about defending yourself by watching a De La Hoya fight than by listening to their garbage.
Irish, I wholeheartedly agree with the resentment towards the McDojos boom, but “You could learn more about defending yourself by watching a De La Hoya fight than by listening to their garbage” have produced more armchair MMA/TMA experts (with nasty attitude to boot) than anything I can think of.[/quote]
Agreed, I know too many people that think they’re fighting “experts” because they watch MMA.
[quote]Nikiforos wrote:
blazindave wrote:
Good post.
However cant you argue that the only people who know how bad war is, is the ones who have lived it?
It’s this understanding of fighting that (hopefully) makes you take it seriously and humbles you in a way which is for the better.
I may have misunderstood, but are you comparing fighting in a dojo, a boxing ring or even a cage with actual warfare? I don’t really think there is any correlation.
As I said earlier, I see martial arts as a collection of physical tools and skills and agree with a lot of things that Swarz.[/quote]
It was just an example. Warfare and fighting in a dojo is like comparing apples to oranges. That is not what i meant at all.
Only people who fight in a ring, etc can understand how serious it is and how much they suck 
I’m terrible with words, sorry 
[quote]mldj wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
MA has become the ultimate hustler’s game. That’s part of the reason I’ve stayed away from any more TMA’s- I dig them, but there’s so many shit teachers out there that I don’t trust anyone. You could learn more about defending yourself by watching a De La Hoya fight than by listening to their garbage.
Irish, I wholeheartedly agree with the resentment towards the McDojos boom, but “You could learn more about defending yourself by watching a De La Hoya fight than by listening to their garbage” have produced more armchair MMA/TMA experts (with nasty attitude to boot) than anything I can think of.[/quote]
That’s true. But I think you get that in every sport to a degree. When it’s about fighting it’s funnier to listen to, because they have no idea how hard it actually is when you’re in the middle of that shit.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
mldj wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
MA has become the ultimate hustler’s game. That’s part of the reason I’ve stayed away from any more TMA’s- I dig them, but there’s so many shit teachers out there that I don’t trust anyone. You could learn more about defending yourself by watching a De La Hoya fight than by listening to their garbage.
Irish, I wholeheartedly agree with the resentment towards the McDojos boom, but “You could learn more about defending yourself by watching a De La Hoya fight than by listening to their garbage” have produced more armchair MMA/TMA experts (with nasty attitude to boot) than anything I can think of.
That’s true. But I think you get that in every sport to a degree. When it’s about fighting it’s funnier to listen to, because they have no idea how hard it actually is when you’re in the middle of that shit. [/quote]
Yeah, you really can’t understand how the hell fighters can’t keep their hands up in the last round, when they perfectly know that they’ll get knocked the fuck out for that… until you get to your first 3x5 min grappling sparring, or 5x3 min boxing sparring session.
Very humbling to gas in the end of the first round and see how in fact your gym prowess or knowledge of BJJ instructional DVDs mean shit against someone who actually trains for that.
You need that kind of moment to loosen up in training and actually start learning and improving (at least I needed it).
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I have often heard the phrase: “The best defense is a strong offense.” Is this line of reasoning compatible with marital arts philosophy?[/quote]
funny and I would say it the other way,
The best offense is a good defense, If I have my defense down to where you can’t hurt me, I don’t have to focus on anything but hurting you.
I am not a traditionalist, I train muay thai, bjj, work with wrestlers all to be the best fighter, what is the point in doing all of this if it isn’t to fight, Not avoid it.
[quote]blazindave wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
blazindave wrote:
Good post.
However cant you argue that the only people who know how bad war is, is the ones who have lived it?
It’s this understanding of fighting that (hopefully) makes you take it seriously and humbles you in a way which is for the better.
I may have misunderstood, but are you comparing fighting in a dojo, a boxing ring or even a cage with actual warfare? I don’t really think there is any correlation.
As I said earlier, I see martial arts as a collection of physical tools and skills and agree with a lot of things that Swarz.
It was just an example. Warfare and fighting in a dojo is like comparing apples to oranges. That is not what i meant at all.
Only people who fight in a ring, etc can understand how serious it is and how much they suck
I’m terrible with words, sorry :([/quote]
Exactly at the gracie school we work with alot of marines and other military on hand to hand combat and not be arrogant but I can tool alot of their top level. But garranteed you drop us off in a different setting and I a probably a dead man.