So, came back to find 32 new posts on your thread, want to walk through it a bit with you if I may.
That’s fucking great. I’m a big reader, and a seeker, so take this all with a grain of salt.
Most Psych’s want to cover your symptoms, and that is big pharma - antidepressants and shit. and, I’m on them myself, so we’re together on this.
However, the best thing is to uncover rather than to cover, so the goal is to get off them at some point. Meds cover the issues, psychological work uncovers the causes and removes them. Just saying.
Been there, done that. CPAP can be phenomenal, and the first night you get a good night sleep, you’ll feel like Superman.
But…I was on CPAP at 210, don’t need it at 190.
You’re way smarter than I, just wanted to weigh in.
Sorry to read that you’re struggling right now.
Just wanted to say it Mark, I have not really anything to say, other than I hope you’ll sort the shit out soon.
Hey @The_Myth glad you stopped by. I get what you mean, but I’ve tried going off them a couple of times and it didn’t work out well. The way my doc explains it, if the cause is brain chemistry arguably psychological work won’t do much. Changing jobs and getting out of shift work helped a ton too, but the last I tried going off was after all that.
With the CPAP, assuming I get issued one, I’m hoping it fixes a lot. Being around 260 lbs isn’t helping, but to be honest I probably needed one when I was around 200 lbs. I originally got referred for a sleep study for apnea when I was 19 and just never followed it up (young and dumb). Most of my adult life I’ve been tired more often than not, no matter how much I sleep and I’ve toyed with the idea of getting a sleep study before and just never pulled the trigger (older, still dumb). This last couple of weeks was just the tipping point.
I also wouldn’t say I’m way smarter than you are. I have a fairly respectable body of work in the dumbness sector.
In other news, mildly tweaked my back exactly where I did before nationals. Doing my air squats in the morning, of all things. It feels mostly fine but still have that odd sensation I had last time, minus the pain. We’ll see how this pans out.
Again, way smarter than I. But let’s discuss, and this might be woo woo shit that might be better suited to the woo woo thread.
That is his training, covering up issues with pharma, and he is trained by big pharma to treat those issues with pharma.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m on Paxil myself, but hear me out.
My issues, I’m sure, are brain chemistry issues caused by childhood issues. If I can resolve those childhood issues, my chemistry will change, and I won’t need the antidepressants.
So meds are covering the issues.
So, the deal is, modern psychological work, CBT, aka Talk Therapy, won’t do much, and he is right.
However, new methodologies, like InnerFamily Systems, Holotropic Breathwork, Meditation, and, dare I say it, psychedelics. might uncover the problems.
I have mentally bookmarked these for further investigation. Thanks man.
You’re also quite possibly right. Fix the issues, fix the chemistry. Kind of like an air filter will keep out smoke but if you put out the fire you don’t need a filter any more.
I have nothing of value to add, except good luck. The frustration of not being at your best can be a fucker, especially when you can’t find an explanation.
@dagill2@I_Luc thank you gentlemen. I think the lurgy is on its way out. I have the sleep study appointment tomorrow when I get the electrodes and stuff so hopefully that will shed some light.
So you called and here I am, Myth, but I’m going to disagree with you. My favorite analogy for depression treatment (meds vs other interventions) is to diabetes:
With Type I diabetes, sometimes called juvenile or childhood diabetes, you have a broken system. Insulin is not produced and will have to be obtained via medication forever.
Type II is generally diagnosed in middle aged people. You go to the doctor and he/she will typically put you on oral medication, metformin, say. From there you can go one of two ways; you can either go home and change your lifestyle - diet, exercise - with a strong likelihood that you’ll be able to come off medication and be considered “diet controlled,” which means you’re pretty much not diabetic any longer, or you can keep on as you were. If you choose the second option, you will almost surely wind up on insulin with an increasingly broken system. You might as well, at that point, have Type I diabetes.
I see depression (and anxiety) the same way. There are people who have broken systems. Their depressions are cyclical, and are not dependent on environmental factors. Things can be going very well and a “Type I” will still sink into suicidal depression. They will always need medication, and that medication will probably have to be jiggered periodically to maintain functionality.
What I’m calling “Type II” depression could be considered “lifestyle” also. If someone becomes depressed, starts medication, and then goes home and addresses situational and/or unresolved childhood issues along with developing coping mechanisms, there’s every likelihood that they can come off the medication.
CBT, ideally, questions underlying assumptions. It’s the Monday morning review of Sunday’s big game. “How was your week?” starts the video rolling, and from there you go to good spots and bad spots, stopping the tape, rewinding, watching again in slow motion, discuss what went wrong, and then basically drawing red circles and arrows to indicate the plan for next time. It’s not different, really, from the nutritionist the diabetic sees. Over time the thoughts/beliefs/attributions you’ve held are either confirmed or found to be invalid. The confirmed thoughts/beliefs/attributions open the door to change. YES, your husband is abusive or your child is out of control. What should be done about this? And healthy change is instituted.
If thoughts/beliefs/attributions are found to be invalid, the door is opened for healthier ones to take their place, e.g. shame is unfounded, self-acceptance takes its place.
NOTE: there are no such things as Type I/Type II depression, so don’t use those terms! It’s just my own frame.
I appreciated this post massively. Thank you for the time taken to write it. I won’t derail marks log Any more by asking questions on it now, but you may find me highjacking further down the line to ask more questions.
I don’t jump in very often on others threads but… I feel like this is something I can weigh in on with some confidence.
I don’t wanna go into to detail on me and my family’s history. But let’s just say… My mom has gone through so VERY bad situations and my siblings and I went through some… Pretty damn bad stuff. All of us had to deal with depression, suicidal thoughts, anger management problems, and negative self talk at least. Some of us added anxiety, panic attacks and PTSD to the mix.
Out of the 5 of us 3 of us no longer hold any of those problems. Not one. My mom and my youngest brother are the 2 who are still working through thier problems.
My mom finally headed my advice and is working through her problems and doing better regularly. She has a full life time of pretty traumatic things to work through but it’s getting there.
My littlest brother is 16. He took the least amount of abuse among us but harbers the most anger. He isn’t trying just yet. He is young and thinks he knows best.
I was told 3 things that changed my life. I have no studies to back these though I know some exist for at least 1 of my points.
Our brains are very flexible. “Neuroplasticity” is a thing. Meditation and self talk can change how you think. Imagine over the course of your life you told your self 1 thing. It could be any thing but let’s pretend it was “I am not good enough.” You have created a river the size of the Mississippi for that thought to flow through. you can slowlu change that to “I am more than enough.” By starting to think it. Over time (lots of time) a new stream will pop out from that river. It will slowly grow pulling water away from the river. Eventually the old thought will cease and the new thought will be the standard. Start thinking different. Choose to think positively.
Positive thoughts affect our selves and the world around us. Look up the rice and positive thoughts study. It has been replicated numerous times around the world and in many college class rooms. It’s not a fluke. Think positive thoughts
Daily cardio can change your body chemistry, outlook, and more. It reduces anxiety, depression and stress. It doesn’t have to be much. Even a 30 min walk at a slightly faster pace than normal will help. Check out the book called “Spark”
Those 3 things alone helped myself and my siblings. My mom… Has some deeper problems and has had a longer life filled with many aweful things. And hasn’t tried to help her self until recently. However she is doing better. She is losing weight, learning to use self talk and positive affirmations, and is going to a therapist who is trying different new techniques to find what is helping. Currently EMDR treatment is working very well for her.
Our bodies have pretty remarkable healing abilities when we give them the right tools.
Those tools include proper diet, sleep, physical activity, and positive self talk.
Mark, I know you are persuing strength ATM. Have you ever stopped to think at what cost? And is that cost truely worth it to you?
I know you have a lot of muscle on you but is your the amount of food and food balance truely healthy? Is the amount of fat gain good for you? Are your Omega 3/6/9 ratios balanced? Are you getting enough micronutrients for your body? How is your cardiovascular health? And finally what does your self talk look like? I see you are already working on your sleeping so no need for me to touch there.
Just food for thought. You certainly don’t need to reply to any of that.
I’m 98% certain that you have sleep apnea. You described me with this:
I have permanent bags under my eyes. And about 15 minutes ago, a co-worker told me I look like I’ve aged… and I’m thin. Well, I am thin, but that’s on purpose. The age thing is probably my eyes.
I had a home sleep study done and I have mild sleep apnea. It definitely got worse last year when I gained weight. It goes hand in hand with snoring, and my wife told me I snored a lot more last year. I tried the CPAP and couldn’t make it work. I tried different masks and different settings but it just didn’t work out. I’ve failed to try option B which is a special mouth guard that sets the jaw to prevent snoring. It’s been on my to-do list for about four years.