Mark Rippetoe Success Story

Training
121

[quote]eaboadar wrote:
Wow, this thread has certainly grown wild since I last dropped by. And in my opinion, it has also lost a lot of focus, with a lot people arguing over very silly stuff and criticising the program without having any first hand experience with it. But I think amidst all of this there are some good points that have been persistent throughout the thread and are worth rescuing:

  1. I think we can all agree that SS is a good program for building decent levels of strength, which is it’s goal, if done diligently. My personal experience with it was that my Back Squat went from 225X5 to 300X5 in four months, Press From 205X5 to 245X5, Press from 125X5 to 160X5, Deadlift from 300X5 to 365X5 and Clean from nothing to 205X3. I think this is very good progress and people around me who have done it have obtained similar results.

  2. It is NOT a BBing program, nor does it claim to be, so any visual transformation one experiences from the program is more a side effect than the primary goal. However, I think it is universally accepted that for bbing purposes, building a solid strength base is not a bad idea as it will pay big dividends in the medium and long term and there lyes it’s value for bodybuilding novices.

  3. GOMAD isn’t for everyone and most will not need such a great caloric surplus to build strength and mass optimally and most will gain more fat than necessary by drinking a gallon of milk per day. As always, sensible eating, evaluation of one’s progress and common sense are always key.

  4. Ripptoe is not a bodybuilder and I don’t think he has ever cared about his BF% or the look of his abz, so to judge him for how he looks like doesn’t make a lot of sense. If one were to accept that a coach’s own achievements can be used as a gauge of his worth, then he should be judged by his strength feats, which I think we can all agree are very respect-worthy.[/quote]

Good post. You summaraized nearly exactly what I wanted to say, and in a much nicer and user-friendly way.

122

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
If the goal is to get bigger/stronger and look better, I honestly see no reason for a beginner to do SS when they could start off with an intelligently designed 4 day body part split with 2 exercises per body part, using a lower rep range like 4-8 for compounds and 8-12 for isolations. I’m inclined to believe they’d gain just as much strength on their big lifts, gain more muscle overall from actually training all body parts directly, gain less fat from doing more volume and ultimately end up looking better.

[/quote]

I’m down wit it.

123

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Speaking of Rip, as far as I know he has become a running gag on Pendlay’s forum. Apparently, he recommended at some point (still is?) that olympic weightlifters should squat low bar+hip drive instead of the common high-bar+upright style.

Not sure if he actually did make that recommendation, but if true he is indeed a joke.

Hope this is helpful info…haha [/quote]

He did and it’s even on video. Go search youtube for a couple minutes and you’ll find it.

124

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:

[quote]knotginuwhine wrote:

for most is that hypertrophy plateaus are quickly, (1-2 years ish), acquired without programming, drugs or genetics, to surpass them.[/quote]

How do you know this? I know you didn’t put a number on it, but I think you’re kind of underestimating human potential.

I wouldn’t just assume anyone is an outlier without watching them grow and change over the years, I personally know I am not an outlier. My first year and a half beyond beginner gains I had really shitty results until I started obsessing about never missing meals, workouts, sleep and minimizing alcohol and drug use, ohhhh and spending hours in front of a computer trying to learn as much as I could about growing.

Could it be that some of us do actually work harder/smarter than others?

[/quote]
My man again allow me to complement your style, you have clearly put the work in no doubt or questioning it, out worked the vast majority of people on here without narry an exception.
And I’ve got no hard on for Rip, he has become successful because there is a market for non-bodybulider BEGGINER training and those are the only props he gets from me.
Haven’t read his books.
My opinion remains, as someone who plateaued for years weidering, that if you’re not on juice you will gain more muscle deadlifting and squatting,(mostly; shit who doesn’t curl, seriously? I do 100 ish all at once at the end of my press days and leave the gym pumped), than body parting.
You are clearly way past needing my advice or any one elses on here, because you out work em and me and appear to out fun them.
And you’re clearly an outlier on this board, though I’ll grant you perhaps that is psychological and not physiological.

125

[quote]knotginuwhine wrote:

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:

[quote]knotginuwhine wrote:

for most is that hypertrophy plateaus are quickly, (1-2 years ish), acquired without programming, drugs or genetics, to surpass them.[/quote]

How do you know this? I know you didn’t put a number on it, but I think you’re kind of underestimating human potential.

I wouldn’t just assume anyone is an outlier without watching them grow and change over the years, I personally know I am not an outlier. My first year and a half beyond beginner gains I had really shitty results until I started obsessing about never missing meals, workouts, sleep and minimizing alcohol and drug use, ohhhh and spending hours in front of a computer trying to learn as much as I could about growing.

Could it be that some of us do actually work harder/smarter than others?

[/quote]
My man again allow me to complement your style, you have clearly put the work in no doubt or questioning it, out worked the vast majority of people on here without narry an exception.
And I’ve got no hard on for Rip, he has become successful because there is a market for non-bodybulider BEGGINER training and those are the only props he gets from me.
Haven’t read his books.
My opinion remains, as someone who plateaued for years weidering, that if you’re not on juice you will gain more muscle deadlifting and squatting,(mostly; shit who doesn’t curl, seriously? I do 100 ish all at once at the end of my press days and leave the gym pumped), than body parting.
You are clearly way past needing my advice or any one elses on here, because you out work em and me and appear to out fun them.
And you’re clearly an outlier on this board, though I’ll grant you perhaps that is psychological and not physiological. [/quote]

Appreciate your compliments sir, but what is Weidering, or his philosiphies/principles?
I know he was extremely influential during Arnolds time, but other that that I know nothing.

126

[quote]knotginuwhine wrote:

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
If the goal is to get bigger/stronger and look better, I honestly see no reason for a beginner to do SS when they could start off with an intelligently designed 4 day body part split with 2 exercises per body part, using a lower rep range like 4-8 for compounds and 8-12 for isolations. I’m inclined to believe they’d gain just as much strength on their big lifts, gain more muscle overall from actually training all body parts directly, gain less fat from doing more volume and ultimately end up looking better.

[/quote]
You sir are the outliers of outliers, congratulations on your parent choice, my complements.
In my experience the reason that what you suggest is not optimal,(notice I said optimal), for most is that hypertrophy plateaus are quickly, (1-2 years ish), acquired without programming, drugs or genetics, to surpass them.[/quote]

Huh? Who said anything about optimal? I said it’s a better idea than starting strength for someone whose goal is to get bigger/stronger and look better.

127

Lol @ “Weidering”

128

Kingbeef- would you recommend a routine in your thread to a true beginner? or and body part split in general? I was under the impression that you should have some sort of strength base to start a split. Just wondering.

129

[quote]knotginuwhine wrote:

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
If the goal is to get bigger/stronger and look better, I honestly see no reason for a beginner to do SS when they could start off with an intelligently designed 4 day body part split with 2 exercises per body part, using a lower rep range like 4-8 for compounds and 8-12 for isolations. I’m inclined to believe they’d gain just as much strength on their big lifts, gain more muscle overall from actually training all body parts directly, gain less fat from doing more volume and ultimately end up looking better.

[/quote]
You sir are the outliers of outliers, congratulations on your parent choice, my complements.
In my experience the reason that what you suggest is not optimal,(notice I said optimal), for most is that hypertrophy plateaus are quickly, (1-2 years ish), acquired without programming, drugs or genetics, to surpass them.[/quote]

You don’t really know what you are talking about and all you are doing is making excuses.

KingBeefs advice is on point.

130

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
I find it funny that you lump everyone that disagrees with SS as a brotard. I’m always amazed at how defensive people are of SS. I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion.
[/quote]

Nice strawman argument, douchebag. I used the word brotard exactly once in this thread, in a post about the mob mentality attacking SS without doing any sort of thinking for themselves. They don’t seem to be capable of anything other than first order thinking of “herp derp I didn’t get cannonball delts from SS in 4 months, it sux yo”. Completely ignoring the strength foundation that will allow them to illict a greater hypertrophy response when they switch programs.

You also didn’t address why if your methods are so awesome, you barely look like you lift after 3 years of training? Not at all “aesthetically pleasing”[/quote]

Using the word “strawman” to do defend your stance is nothing new here at T-Nation. And yet you use it improperly. So your argument is little to no strength gains will be seen on higher rep bb splits?

Actually, I have been fairly fat for the aesthetics crowd. And 68 lbs gained over 3 years and never breaking 20% body fat in most cases would be deemed as progress. I’m sincerly flattered by your attention to my body and progress. Either your steroid use or overly tight inzer squat suit may have given you a serious case of the dreaded condition know as ‘teh ghey’. I have to say, I dont swing that way broski!
[/quote]

Strawman: To “attack a straw man” is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the “straw man”), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

You claimed that I called everyone a brotard that disagrees with Starting Strength. you were making up an argument to refute that was not made. If it looks like a strawman, and sounds like a strawman…

Don’t flatter yourself, I could get way better gay guys than you. I compete in drug tested federations, don’t use steroids, and have never put on a squat suit (the word you may be looking for is SINGLET and it is Metal, not Inzer). Next time you go all Nancy Drew, you might want to do better research.[/quote]

Sadly, I have no idea who nancy drew is. With your vast experience in picking up gay men, I think Gregron may be interested as you seem to have developed a cheering section.
[/quote]

Based on your posts you have got to be college aged or below because attempted slights using the gay angle are really outdated and reak of immaturity.

131

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]knotginuwhine wrote:

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
If the goal is to get bigger/stronger and look better, I honestly see no reason for a beginner to do SS when they could start off with an intelligently designed 4 day body part split with 2 exercises per body part, using a lower rep range like 4-8 for compounds and 8-12 for isolations. I’m inclined to believe they’d gain just as much strength on their big lifts, gain more muscle overall from actually training all body parts directly, gain less fat from doing more volume and ultimately end up looking better.

[/quote]
You sir are the outliers of outliers, congratulations on your parent choice, my complements.
In my experience the reason that what you suggest is not optimal,(notice I said optimal), for most is that hypertrophy plateaus are quickly, (1-2 years ish), acquired without programming, drugs or genetics, to surpass them.[/quote]

You don’t really know what you are talking about and all you are doing is making excuses.

KingBeefs advice is on point.[/quote]

I agree. You dont have to get to an advanced point before you can start training for hypertrophy. Thats asinine. And since when does it only continuously work for outliers only?

I have no problems with starting strength.

But what would you rather start with if you could go back in time:
5/3/1 with hypertrophy work assistance

Or starting strength.

I know what i would do…

132

[quote]jtownlax wrote:
Kingbeef- would you recommend a routine in your thread to a true beginner? or and body part split in general? I was under the impression that you should have some sort of strength base to start a split. Just wondering.[/quote]

Why do people think that doing a bodypart split means that you aren’t working on getting stronger?

KingBeef suggested doing 2 movements for a BP in the 6-8 rep range (strength) and then also working in the 8-12 rep range (hypertrophy)

You can do both at the same time.

133

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
You dont have to get to an advanced point before you can start training for hypertrophy. Thats asinine. And since when does it only continuously work for outliers only?

I have no problems with starting strength.

But what would you rather start with if you could go back in time:
5/3/1 with hypertrophy work assistance

Or starting strength.

I know what i would do…[/quote]

I was writing my precious post when you posted this but this is exactly what I was talking about.

You can work on strength and size in the same routine.

134

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:

[quote]knotginuwhine wrote:

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:

[quote]knotginuwhine wrote:

for most is that hypertrophy plateaus are quickly, (1-2 years ish), acquired without programming, drugs or genetics, to surpass them.[/quote]

How do you know this? I know you didn’t put a number on it, but I think you’re kind of underestimating human potential.

I wouldn’t just assume anyone is an outlier without watching them grow and change over the years, I personally know I am not an outlier. My first year and a half beyond beginner gains I had really shitty results until I started obsessing about never missing meals, workouts, sleep and minimizing alcohol and drug use, ohhhh and spending hours in front of a computer trying to learn as much as I could about growing.

Could it be that some of us do actually work harder/smarter than others?

[/quote]
My man again allow me to complement your style, you have clearly put the work in no doubt or questioning it, out worked the vast majority of people on here without narry an exception.
And I’ve got no hard on for Rip, he has become successful because there is a market for non-bodybulider BEGGINER training and those are the only props he gets from me.
Haven’t read his books.
My opinion remains, as someone who plateaued for years weidering, that if you’re not on juice you will gain more muscle deadlifting and squatting,(mostly; shit who doesn’t curl, seriously? I do 100 ish all at once at the end of my press days and leave the gym pumped), than body parting.
You are clearly way past needing my advice or any one elses on here, because you out work em and me and appear to out fun them.
And you’re clearly an outlier on this board, though I’ll grant you perhaps that is psychological and not physiological. [/quote]

Appreciate your compliments sir, but what is Weidering, or his philosiphies/principles?
I know he was extremely influential during Arnolds time, but other that that I know nothing.[/quote]
Glad you lol’d at weidering king beef.
I do what I can.
Weridering, to me, is using 3-5 sets 70-80 ish of you’re 1Rm for 8-12 reps to failure for “optimum hypertrophy”, and body part splits.
I think they were popularized/promoted as the only acceptable science, by Weider’s publishing empire.
I’m not arguing that either of you two gentlemen aren’t better off body part splitting for your goals, shit or even listening to anything I have to say for that matter, my contention is that beginers, because of the small weights they are using and their untapped hormones and likely other reasons, can squat, deadlift and press multiple times a week, growing bigger and generating more anabolic hormones than they would doing a split of some type.
This would be temporary, regardless of goals, but would be advantageous almost irrespective of your goals.

135

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]knotginuwhine wrote:

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
If the goal is to get bigger/stronger and look better, I honestly see no reason for a beginner to do SS when they could start off with an intelligently designed 4 day body part split with 2 exercises per body part, using a lower rep range like 4-8 for compounds and 8-12 for isolations. I’m inclined to believe they’d gain just as much strength on their big lifts, gain more muscle overall from actually training all body parts directly, gain less fat from doing more volume and ultimately end up looking better.

[/quote]
You sir are the outliers of outliers, congratulations on your parent choice, my complements.
In my experience the reason that what you suggest is not optimal,(notice I said optimal), for most is that hypertrophy plateaus are quickly, (1-2 years ish), acquired without programming, drugs or genetics, to surpass them.[/quote]

You don’t really know what you are talking about and all you are doing is making excuses.

KingBeefs advice is on point.[/quote]

I’ve got no excuses, as I’ve stated multiple times in this thread conventional body-building dogma didn’t work for me past bp 275ish, stagnated in all my lifts for years around there.
If you think it’s an excuse to say that King beef is the most jacked natural,(not that I care either way but some seem too), guy on this board and yet I don’t enjoy training in his paragdigm, because to me it was far less successful for my fun, you are not listening to me and reading into my statements what you’d like to hear.

136

^^who cares if your bench press stalled out at 275? This isn’t the powerlifting forum, it’s about bodybuilding. What’s your concern: bigger bench or bigger chest?

SS is a STRENGTH oriented program. Bodybuilding isn’t about strength, it’s about size, leanness and proportion. That is why SS is not being suggested for guys who’s goals are physique oriented.

137

[quote]knotginuwhine wrote:
You sir are the outliers of outliers, congratulations on your parent choice, my complements.
[/quote]

Also, what an extremely rude and disrespectful thing to say. Don’t belittle what KB has accomplished.

138

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]knotginuwhine wrote:
You sir are the outliers of outliers, congratulations on your parent choice, my complements.
[/quote]

Also, what an extremely rude and disrespectful thing to say. Don’t belittle what KB has accomplished.[/quote]

Genuine compliment, not any disrespect, I have the utmost respect for his obvious hard work.
I was using my strength as a barometer that is measureable and reportable, I am sorry you were offended by that.
I did everything endogenous insulin production would allow size wise, I was and am a big man, tho I got as big as 270 during that period just eating and lifting, hard to quantify that tho, with a number that measured my hypertrophy because I was a fat bastard.
For several years I lifted 6 days a week and ate 4 bk breakfast sandwiches PW, with a gallon of protein shake throughout the day, is that body builder talk enough or still too power lifter?

Sorry, didn’t mean to faux-paus, I enjoy the stimulating conversation.

139

[quote]knotginuwhine wrote:
and ate 4 bk breakfast sandwiches PW, with a gallon of protein shake throughout the day, is that body builder talk enough or still too power lifter? [/quote]

You’ve corrected this 4 bk breakfast sandwich disaster at some point right?

140

I can only repeat what I’ve stated in some other SS-critique thread:

One or two cycles of SS will be far, far better for the majority of aspiring bodybuilders then a 4 or 5 day split with lots of isolation.
On top of that, it is good athletical investment.

A few months without going deep with concentration curls won’t make the gods of iron cry.