A fair point, but I think it’s the MLB’s job to make these issues black and white, and with this policy that is what they’ve done.
I agree the effects of this go far beyond baseball, which is no good, but for baseball I think rules are rules and exceptions shouldn’t be made. They can turn into a slippery slope dealing with all of the “grey” areas.
“Rules are rules ?” These are not rules the game was built on. These are “new rules”. And why are we americans suddenly so thirsty for more law enforcement ? Jesus dude they keep adding more and more rules which only brings more and more enforcement…it’s already to the point that high school kids are being tested, high school kids who’ve done nothing wrong being presumed guilty just becuse they play sports. Next step is to start testing little league ? Parents can already buy home tests and make their youngsters pee in cups. FUCK your concern about the “slippery slope” of “grey areas” ! Baseball is a fucking GAME, A fantasy world. And now this ridiculously perverted concern for what goes on in that world is affecting real people who lead real lives.
[/quote]
Exactly. Baseball is nothing more than a game. It’s a game where they can decide to change the rules any which way they please. If you want to argue that steroids should be allowed in baseball then go right ahead, but all I’m saying is that as long as they are against the rules, no exceptions should be made.
A fair point, but I think it’s the MLB’s job to make these issues black and white, and with this policy that is what they’ve done.
I agree the effects of this go far beyond baseball, which is no good, but for baseball I think rules are rules and exceptions shouldn’t be made. They can turn into a slippery slope dealing with all of the “grey” areas.
“Rules are rules ?” These are not rules the game was built on. These are “new rules”. And why are we americans suddenly so thirsty for more law enforcement ? Jesus dude they keep adding more and more rules which only brings more and more enforcement…it’s already to the point that high school kids are being tested, high school kids who’ve done nothing wrong being presumed guilty just becuse they play sports. Next step is to start testing little league ? Parents can already buy home tests and make their youngsters pee in cups. FUCK your concern about the “slippery slope” of “grey areas” ! Baseball is a fucking GAME, A fantasy world. And now this ridiculously perverted concern for what goes on in that world is affecting real people who lead real lives.
Exactly. Baseball is nothing more than a game. It’s a game where they can decide to change the rules any which way they please. If you want to argue that steroids should be allowed in baseball then go right ahead, but all I’m saying is that as long as they are against the rules, no exceptions should be made. [/quote]
Since when is tyranny acceptable in any walk of life? Aside from children living under their parents rules lol.
If the baseball players had a say in the rules this may not be as big of an issue.
The players union was involved in the agreement for drug testing. That’s fine.
The union is not involved with what drugs are added to the list. MLB is failing at making performance enhancement a black and white issue. Lasik eye surgery should not be allowed in baseball if this was a black and white issue. Cortisone shots should not be allowed during the season. There are so many grey areas, it’s rediculous. Baseball officials are picking and choosing the issues they want to focus on; and it is not in the best interest of the health of the players. The only thing that matters to MLB officials is public perception and they are going about it all the wrong way with the facade of cleaning up the game handing out suspensions no questions asked.
Baseball is played by real people who have lives off the field. The players can’t put their lives on ‘pause’ just because the rules don’t allow them to do certain things.
I agree that rules should be followed and enforced, but not when the people expected to follow them have no say in the issue.
I am still anti-PED use in baseball BTW. Simply because it is unfair to expect the average person to possess enough knowledge to safely use drugs that do in fact pose significant health risks when used improperly.
…I am still anti-PED use in baseball BTW. Simply because it is unfair to expect the average person to possess enough knowledge to safely use drugs that do in fact pose significant health risks when used improperly.
Are there ANY drugs that don’t in fact pose significant health risks when used improperly?"[/quote]
No argument there. I just see asprin as “safer” to use than injectable steroids that need to be cycled, administered properly, monitored for user specific side effects etc.
There’s nothing all that dangerous about steroids (not trying to sound preachy; I’m fairly certain you have some knowledge on the subject) it’s just that I feel the average joe has more room to mess himself up with steroids than with cough medicine or allergy meds or even something like vicodin. It comes down to knowledge, obviously. Knowledge that most people dont care to possess at this point due to the current perception about AAS.
A fair point, but I think it’s the MLB’s job to make these issues black and white, and with this policy that is what they’ve done.
I agree the effects of this go far beyond baseball, which is no good, but for baseball I think rules are rules and exceptions shouldn’t be made. They can turn into a slippery slope dealing with all of the “grey” areas.
“Rules are rules ?” These are not rules the game was built on. These are “new rules”. And why are we americans suddenly so thirsty for more law enforcement ? Jesus dude they keep adding more and more rules which only brings more and more enforcement…it’s already to the point that high school kids are being tested, high school kids who’ve done nothing wrong being presumed guilty just becuse they play sports. Next step is to start testing little league ? Parents can already buy home tests and make their youngsters pee in cups. FUCK your concern about the “slippery slope” of “grey areas” ! Baseball is a fucking GAME, A fantasy world. And now this ridiculously perverted concern for what goes on in that world is affecting real people who lead real lives.
Exactly. Baseball is nothing more than a game. It’s a game where they can decide to change the rules any which way they please. If you want to argue that steroids should be allowed in baseball then go right ahead, but all I’m saying is that as long as they are against the rules, no exceptions should be made.
Since when is tyranny acceptable in any walk of life? Aside from children living under their parents rules lol.
If the baseball players had a say in the rules this may not be as big of an issue.
The players union was involved in the agreement for drug testing.
That’s fine.
The union is not involved with what drugs are added to the list. [/quote]
It doesn’t matter. I consider the players employees of the MLB and they must follow the rules the MLB sets in order to retain their job. If the MLB decides it wants all players to have clean cut hair like the Yankees, who are we to say they can’t enforce those rules? These are men getting paid MILLIONS for playing a game. If my employer was paying me that much money you can bet your ass I’d follow any damn rule they made in order to keep my job. If, at one point they make rules where the downside outweighs the money I’m making, that’s the point in which I’d quit.
No one is forcing these men to play baseball. As long as they are, they must follow ANY rules set by the MLB, regardless of how good/bad those rules are viewed by random internet people.
To baseball, these aren’t grey areas. They say lasik is allowable. They say cortisone shots are allowable. Once again, they can make any rules they feel necessary and their motivations for making those rules are irrelevant. If the players want to play they have to follow the rules.
That’s exactly what they have to do in order to keep playing a game for a living making ridiculous amounts of money.[/quote]
I don’t have a say at my job about what the dress code is. My job does random drug testing for marijuana. I’ve never even been asked. These players have more say in the issue (the union) than I do at my job.
If these rules were so bad and the players were so unhappy about what they can and can’t use, they are free not to play in the MLB. If enough players get pissed off the union could strike until the rules were changed. Or they could start their own baseball league with rules they felt were more acceptable.
A fair point, but I think it’s the MLB’s job to make these issues black and white, and with this policy that is what they’ve done.
I agree the effects of this go far beyond baseball, which is no good, but for baseball I think rules are rules and exceptions shouldn’t be made. They can turn into a slippery slope dealing with all of the “grey” areas.
“Rules are rules ?” These are not rules the game was built on. These are “new rules”. And why are we americans suddenly so thirsty for more law enforcement ? Jesus dude they keep adding more and more rules which only brings more and more enforcement…it’s already to the point that high school kids are being tested, high school kids who’ve done nothing wrong being presumed guilty just becuse they play sports. Next step is to start testing little league ? Parents can already buy home tests and make their youngsters pee in cups. FUCK your concern about the “slippery slope” of “grey areas” ! Baseball is a fucking GAME, A fantasy world. And now this ridiculously perverted concern for what goes on in that world is affecting real people who lead real lives.
Exactly. Baseball is nothing more than a game. It’s a game where they can decide to change the rules any which way they please. If you want to argue that steroids should be allowed in baseball then go right ahead, but all I’m saying is that as long as they are against the rules, no exceptions should be made.
Since when is tyranny acceptable in any walk of life? Aside from children living under their parents rules lol.
If the baseball players had a say in the rules this may not be as big of an issue.
The players union was involved in the agreement for drug testing.
That’s fine.
The union is not involved with what drugs are added to the list.
It doesn’t matter. I consider the players employees of the MLB and they must follow the rules the MLB sets in order to retain their job. If the MLB decides it wants all players to have clean cut hair like the Yankees, who are we to say they can’t enforce those rules? These are men getting paid MILLIONS for playing a game. If my employer was paying me that much money you can bet your ass I’d follow any damn rule they made in order to keep my job. If, at one point they make rules where the downside outweighs the money I’m making, that’s the point in which I’d quit.
No one is forcing these men to play baseball. As long as they are, they must follow ANY rules set by the MLB, regardless of how good/bad those rules are viewed by random internet people.
MLB is failing at making performance enhancement a black and white issue. Lasik eye surgery should not be allowed in baseball if this was a black and white issue. Cortisone shots should not be allowed during the season. There are so many grey areas, it’s rediculous. Baseball officials are picking and choosing the issues they want to focus on; and it is not in the best interest of the health of the players. The only thing that matters to MLB officials is public perception and they are going about it all the wrong way with the facade of cleaning up the game handing out suspensions no questions asked.
To baseball, these aren’t grey areas. They say lasik is allowable. They say cortisone shots are allowable. Once again, they can make any rules they feel necessary and their motivations for making those rules are irrelevant. If the players want to play they have to follow the rules.
Baseball is played by real people who have lives off the field. The players can’t put their lives on ‘pause’ just because the rules don’t allow them to do certain things.
That’s exactly what they have to do in order to keep playing a game for a living making ridiculous amounts of money.
I agree that rules should be followed and enforced, but not when the people expected to follow them have no say in the issue.
I don’t have a say at my job about what the dress code is. My job does random drug testing for marijuana. I’ve never even been asked. These players have more say in the issue (the union) than I do at my job.
If these rules were so bad and the players were so unhappy about what they can and can’t use, they are free not to play in the MLB. If enough players get pissed off the union could strike until the rules were changed. Or they could start their own baseball league with rules they felt were more acceptable.
I am still anti-PED use in baseball BTW. Simply because it is unfair to expect the average person to possess enough knowledge to safely use drugs that do in fact pose significant health risks when used improperly.
Agreed.
[/quote]
Dude for a LankyMofo you’re actually pretty thick aren’t you ? Once more…This isn’t about Baseball. Congress is involved. Mis-information about legit drugs is being propagated and public perceptions are being wrongly influenced on a massive scale. Doctors and Pharmacies are being compromised and men a suffering because of it. You are saying that there are no grey areas; You are saying that the rules of baseball are more important than the relationship between a man and his Doctor. This is just wrong.
I’m sorry you have a shitty job. But this doesn’t mean everyone else has to have shitty jobs also. My advice is you should work hard to change that,you could work for yourself if you wanted to. There are no laws against that, but when enough people start thinking like you do I suppose there will be. Until then, there is opportunity and freedom available in this country; opportunity and freedom that we are losing bit by bit. Your attitude on this is frightening.
BTW Baseball is a game that’s worked for our country as a past-time for so long precisely because of the freedoms involved, because of the grey areas which are such a welcome escape from the shitty, rigid world of black and white. Time is a grey area in baseball; there are no clocks. The strike zone is a grey area; Umps can call them tight or loose and players have the ability to influence the calls with their own personal style. Morality is also grey; You can steal, you can decoy, you can lie and cheat and deceive and if you’re good enough at all of that you can get yourself into the hall of fame alongside Babe Ruth who used illegal drugs for his entire career.
A fair point, but I think it’s the MLB’s job to make these issues black and white, and with this policy that is what they’ve done.
I agree the effects of this go far beyond baseball, which is no good, but for baseball I think rules are rules and exceptions shouldn’t be made. They can turn into a slippery slope dealing with all of the “grey” areas.
“Rules are rules ?” These are not rules the game was built on. These are “new rules”. And why are we americans suddenly so thirsty for more law enforcement ? Jesus dude they keep adding more and more rules which only brings more and more enforcement…it’s already to the point that high school kids are being tested, high school kids who’ve done nothing wrong being presumed guilty just becuse they play sports. Next step is to start testing little league ? Parents can already buy home tests and make their youngsters pee in cups. FUCK your concern about the “slippery slope” of “grey areas” ! Baseball is a fucking GAME, A fantasy world. And now this ridiculously perverted concern for what goes on in that world is affecting real people who lead real lives.
Exactly. Baseball is nothing more than a game. It’s a game where they can decide to change the rules any which way they please. If you want to argue that steroids should be allowed in baseball then go right ahead, but all I’m saying is that as long as they are against the rules, no exceptions should be made.
Since when is tyranny acceptable in any walk of life? Aside from children living under their parents rules lol.
If the baseball players had a say in the rules this may not be as big of an issue.
The players union was involved in the agreement for drug testing.
That’s fine.
The union is not involved with what drugs are added to the list.
It doesn’t matter. I consider the players employees of the MLB and they must follow the rules the MLB sets in order to retain their job. If the MLB decides it wants all players to have clean cut hair like the Yankees, who are we to say they can’t enforce those rules? These are men getting paid MILLIONS for playing a game. If my employer was paying me that much money you can bet your ass I’d follow any damn rule they made in order to keep my job. If, at one point they make rules where the downside outweighs the money I’m making, that’s the point in which I’d quit.
No one is forcing these men to play baseball. As long as they are, they must follow ANY rules set by the MLB, regardless of how good/bad those rules are viewed by random internet people.
MLB is failing at making performance enhancement a black and white issue. Lasik eye surgery should not be allowed in baseball if this was a black and white issue. Cortisone shots should not be allowed during the season. There are so many grey areas, it’s rediculous. Baseball officials are picking and choosing the issues they want to focus on; and it is not in the best interest of the health of the players. The only thing that matters to MLB officials is public perception and they are going about it all the wrong way with the facade of cleaning up the game handing out suspensions no questions asked.
To baseball, these aren’t grey areas. They say lasik is allowable. They say cortisone shots are allowable. Once again, they can make any rules they feel necessary and their motivations for making those rules are irrelevant. If the players want to play they have to follow the rules.
Baseball is played by real people who have lives off the field. The players can’t put their lives on ‘pause’ just because the rules don’t allow them to do certain things.
That’s exactly what they have to do in order to keep playing a game for a living making ridiculous amounts of money.
I agree that rules should be followed and enforced, but not when the people expected to follow them have no say in the issue.
I don’t have a say at my job about what the dress code is. My job does random drug testing for marijuana. I’ve never even been asked. These players have more say in the issue (the union) than I do at my job.
If these rules were so bad and the players were so unhappy about what they can and can’t use, they are free not to play in the MLB. If enough players get pissed off the union could strike until the rules were changed. Or they could start their own baseball league with rules they felt were more acceptable.
I am still anti-PED use in baseball BTW. Simply because it is unfair to expect the average person to possess enough knowledge to safely use drugs that do in fact pose significant health risks when used improperly.
Agreed.
Dude for a LankyMofo you’re actually pretty thick aren’t you ? [/quote]
What’s with the personal insults? If this is the road you want to go, no problem. You’re a poopie head.
Ok. I’m talking about baseball. And all I’m saying is that if steroids are illegal in BASEBALL, then I don’t care what other conditions, diseases, malfunctions, dysfunctions you have, you shouldn’t be using steroids. Period.
I’m saying baseball attempts to make it so there are no grey areas. They have rules and if you violate them, you get suspended. I think this is the right thing to do.
Lol, where did I say this? Are you even reading? First you interpret my statement about the rules of BASEBALL (isn’t that what we’re talking about?) to law enforcement and kids being tested in little league, now you’re coming up with this? Man, you really are a poopie head.
I’m saying that if a doctor thinks it’s best that a baseball player use a substance that is on the banned substance list for the MLB, it’s the players choice to do what he wants. He can choose baseball or choose the (hopefully) successful treatment of whatever disorder he may have. No one in this country is granted the right to play baseball for a living.
I don’t have a shitty job, I have a good job making pretty good money. Random drug testing doesn’t change that because they are the rules of my company that I knew before I signed up (willfully) to work here. No biggie.
I don’t want to change where I work. I like it here. You’re making way too many assumptions about my job and where I work based on the fact that they have random drug testing. Like I said, every employee here is aware of that fact before they sign up to work here. Don’t like the rules? Get a different job!
[quote]BTW Baseball is a game that’s worked for our country as a past-time for so long precisely because of the freedoms involved, because of the grey areas which are such a welcome escape from the shitty, rigid world of black and white. Time is a grey area in baseball; there are no clocks. The strike zone is a grey area; Umps can call them tight or loose and players have the ability to influence the calls with their own personal style. Morality is also grey; You can steal, you can decoy, you can lie and cheat and deceive and if you’re good enough at all of that you can get yourself into the hall of fame alongside Babe Ruth who used illegal drugs for his entire career.
[/quote]
I don’t even know what you’re getting at here. Is this supposed to be logical thinking?
Bonez replies are pretty intelligent and he’s actually reading what I’m writing. I think we’re actually making some progress. But you, well, if you come back with another retarded response like this that doesn’t show any trace of logic, nor shows that you’re reading what I’m writing, I’m going to respond by calling you a poopie head and that’s it. That way you’ll know I’ve read your response and deemed it unworthy of my time.
For MLB it should be black and white. They shouldn’t care how the media portrays the stories when they break or any misinformation there in. They also shouldn’t care about doctor / patient confidentiality. They have their rules and they should enforce them.
I think MLB’s obligation is to protect the players that don’t want to take PEDs. This includes major & minor leagers, college players and kids. A player shouldn’t have to use to be competitive. That’s how it will be if everyone can. Don’t be mad at MLB for enforcing it’s rules. If you want to be mad at someone be mad at Manny. He took the drugs to improve his performance on the field. Not in bed. My understanding is if he had ED he could have gone through MLB channels to get the use approved. He chose not too.
If you think this type of story will make it harder to get certain drugs from your doctor for legitimate medical purposes. Be mad at the players who cheat. Perhaps you can be mad at the media as well, but don’t be mad at Major League Baseball.
[quote]swivel wrote:
It used to be that fans supported the players and hated the owners, but now it’s vice-e-versa isn’t it ?
[/quote]
Have you ever watched a Philadelphia sporting event? We boo our players all the freakin time. We always have, we always will.
Romero is missed. He didn’t do anything wrong in a legal/moral/whatever sense. He did something wrong in an “mlb” sense (even though its bullshit). But, as I’ve said, in order to be a part of a league you have to work under their regulations. I believe in being pro-active in changing rules, I don’t believe in getting my panties in a bundle when something went a way I didn’t agree with. He can use the supspension as time to train and improve to be even stronger than before, and if he still thinks things need to change (which they do) he can pursue it when he’s returned.
Professor… I know I’m only speaking in baseball sense. My view is quite different outside of the realm of organized sports, aligning more with yourself, but if we are going to discuss general thoughts on HCG I feel it should be done so in a different thread.
[quote]on edge wrote:
For MLB it should be black and white. They shouldn’t care how the media portrays the stories when they break or any misinformation there in. They also shouldn’t care about doctor / patient confidentiality. They have their rules and they should enforce them.
I think MLB’s obligation is to protect the players that don’t want to take PEDs. This includes major & minor leagers, college players and kids. A player shouldn’t have to use to be competitive. That’s how it will be if everyone can. Don’t be mad at MLB for enforcing it’s rules. If you want to be mad at someone be mad at Manny. He took the drugs to improve his performance on the field. Not in bed. My understanding is if he had ED he could have gone through MLB channels to get the use approved. He chose not too.
If you think this type of story will make it harder to get certain drugs from your doctor for legitimate medical purposes. Be mad at the players who cheat. Perhaps you can be mad at the media as well, but don’t be mad at Major League Baseball.[/quote]
Exactly. Why anyone would get mad at the people following the rules (the MLB) and not the people making the rules (congress) is beyond me.
Professor… I know I’m only speaking in baseball sense. My view is quite different outside of the realm of organized sports, aligning more with yourself, but if we are going to discuss general thoughts on HCG I feel it should be done so in a different thread.[/quote]
Why? We just had a poster claim he can’t even fill his prescription as of the release of this news because no pharmacy wants to take that risk yet we are separating the issues? Congress isn’t separating them and pharmacies are scared shitless as a result.
Maybe some of you should realize that these issues are ABSOLUTELY FUCKING RELATED and not just a “baseball issue”.
Professor… I know I’m only speaking in baseball sense. My view is quite different outside of the realm of organized sports, aligning more with yourself, but if we are going to discuss general thoughts on HCG I feel it should be done so in a different thread.
Why? We just had a poster claim he can’t even fill his prescription as of the release of this news because no pharmacy wants to take that risk yet we are separating the issues? Congress isn’t separating them and pharmacies are scared shitless as a result.
Maybe some of you should realize that these issues are ABSOLUTELY FUCKING RELATED and not just a “baseball issue”.[/quote]
The fact that these issues are related, is that MLB’s fault or congress? The media? The fans? Who?
Hint: It’s not MLB’s fault.
Once we can figure that out, we can starting pointing fingers and blaming people.
In the meantime, I can say I have no problems with the way baseball’s policy is set up or the way it enforces it’s rules. The rules that people already knew before they signed up to play.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Professor X wrote:
xkungpowx wrote:
Professor… I know I’m only speaking in baseball sense. My view is quite different outside of the realm of organized sports, aligning more with yourself, but if we are going to discuss general thoughts on HCG I feel it should be done so in a different thread.
Why? We just had a poster claim he can’t even fill his prescription as of the release of this news because no pharmacy wants to take that risk yet we are separating the issues? Congress isn’t separating them and pharmacies are scared shitless as a result.
Maybe some of you should realize that these issues are ABSOLUTELY FUCKING RELATED and not just a “baseball issue”.
The fact that these issues are related, is that MLB’s fault or congress? The media? The fans? Who?
Hint: It’s not MLB’s fault.
Once we can figure that out, we can starting pointing fingers and blaming people.
In the meantime, I can say I have no problems with the way baseball’s policy is set up or the way it enforces it’s rules. The rules that people already knew before they signed up to play.[/quote]
The fault lies with every single one of us who raises no voice against it. You can’t blame the media without blaming the lemmings who swallow everything they say without question. You can’t blame those people without blaming Congress who puts on a show as if this is a major public health crisis that somehow surpasses war in another country. You also can’t fault Congress if NO ONE is going to say shit in opposition to them wasting that much time and money on an issue like this.
If you wrote what you did as a way of asking what the solution is, I may not be absolutely sure but I know the way we should NOT handle this is to continue to trivialize this issue by only talking about this shit in terms of baseball.
It is that very mindset that allows Congress and the media to push their own agendas. While most are too caught up in the game, they won’t realize until it is far too late that they just sold their soul to the devil by seeing it so simplistically.
Yes, in a perfect world, you play according to the rules of whatever game you are playing…but this isn’t a perfect world and by acting that way in terms of baseball you are also allowing more freedom to be taken away.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
Professor X wrote:
xkungpowx wrote:
Professor… I know I’m only speaking in baseball sense. My view is quite different outside of the realm of organized sports, aligning more with yourself, but if we are going to discuss general thoughts on HCG I feel it should be done so in a different thread.
Why? We just had a poster claim he can’t even fill his prescription as of the release of this news because no pharmacy wants to take that risk yet we are separating the issues? Congress isn’t separating them and pharmacies are scared shitless as a result.
Maybe some of you should realize that these issues are ABSOLUTELY FUCKING RELATED and not just a “baseball issue”.
The fact that these issues are related, is that MLB’s fault or congress? The media? The fans? Who?
Hint: It’s not MLB’s fault.
Once we can figure that out, we can starting pointing fingers and blaming people.
In the meantime, I can say I have no problems with the way baseball’s policy is set up or the way it enforces it’s rules. The rules that people already knew before they signed up to play.
The fault lies with every single one of us who raises no voice against it. You can’t blame the media without blaming the lemmings who swallow everything they say without question. You can’t blame those people without blaming Congress who puts on a show as if this is a major public health crisis that somehow surpasses war in another country. You also can’t fault Congress if NO ONE is going to say shit in opposition to them wasting that much time and money on an issue like this.
If you wrote what you did as a way of asking what the solution is, I may not be absolutely sure but I know the way we should NOT handle this is to continue to trivialize this issue by only talking about this shit in terms of baseball.
It is that very mindset that allows Congress and the media to push their own agendas. While most are too caught up in the game, they won’t realize until it is far too late that they just sold their soul to the devil by seeing it so simplistically.
Yes, in a perfect world, you play according to the rules of whatever game you are playing…but this isn’t a perfect world and by acting that way in terms of baseball you are also allowing more freedom to be taken away.
This is NOT a black and white issue.[/quote]
I just wanted to point out in your entire response, there was 1 party you didn’t place any blame on.
[quote]on edge wrote:
For MLB it should be black and white. They shouldn’t care how the media portrays the stories when they break or any misinformation there in. They also shouldn’t care about doctor / patient confidentiality. They have their rules and they should enforce them.
I think MLB’s obligation is to protect the players that don’t want to take PEDs. This includes major & minor leagers, college players and kids. A player shouldn’t have to use to be competitive. That’s how it will be if everyone can. Don’t be mad at MLB for enforcing it’s rules. If you want to be mad at someone be mad at Manny. He took the drugs to improve his performance on the field. Not in bed. My understanding is if he had ED he could have gone through MLB channels to get the use approved. He chose not too.
If you think this type of story will make it harder to get certain drugs from your doctor for legitimate medical purposes. Be mad at the players who cheat. Perhaps you can be mad at the media as well, but don’t be mad at Major League Baseball.[/quote]
The problem I have with this situation is not that Manny took hCG and got a suspension. His suspension is warranted because he didn’t file the paperwork.
That’s what this comes down to. If he would have filed the paperwork he would not be facing the villification that he is currently facing for “cheating the game”. NO ONE HAS ANY IDEA WHAT HE WAS USING hCG FOR. Only he and his doc know. You absolutely can not say he was trying to improve performance with any sort of conviction. Not all PED’s, when used for legit medical reasons, enhance performance.
So is he a cheater because he used a drug or is he a cheater because he didn’t fill out a piece of paper? Serious question.
And with regards to using hCG for performance enhancement, I’ll say this one more time. No doctor with half of a brain (they may be close minded at times, but doctors aren’t stupid) would ever prescribe hCG to a guy who wants to discreetly enhance performance. After hGH and amphetemines, hCG would be next on my list if I wanted to enhance my body’s natural fucntions (this is not considering AAS use, obviously). HCG can raise T levels just as much as injectable testoserone. It can also cause all of the effects of exo-T such as suppression of the HPTA, increase in estrogen levels, increase in DHT etc. This is the absolute last drug I would ever consider using in a drug tested sport (besides AAS). This is just a sidebar about hCG.
The actual point was that Manny is being labeled a cheater because of failure to file paperwork. It’s just stupid. And now doctors are reluctant to prescribe these completely legitimate drugs because they are scared of public perception. This should not be tolerated. In the 2 dozen or so conversations about Manny in the past week on ESPN I have heard the notion of his legit use of the drug brought up ONCE. All the other times it was mentioned in jest, as if the reported knew for a fact that there was no way Manny could have a legit medical reason to use hCG. The statement “hCG is reported to be used by bodybuilders to restart natty T levels after a cycle” has been regurgitated as many times as the topic has come up. Nevermind the fact that this is not a scientifically sound statement. Some ignorant “old school” steroid users do follow this practice. If that statement is relevant to Manny’s case why hasn’t he failed a drug test for doing a cycle of AAS, that he obviously must have done if he is using hCG to restart his HPTA (which is doesn’t do, just so that’s clear).
Reporters don’t know dick about what’s going on but they are happy to run their mouths all day just so they can sound like the good guys. It’s pathetic.
This post wasn’t necessarily directed towards you.
And Lanky, I think we just have differing opinions, which is fine.
Edit: And to clarify, there really isn’t anything MLB can do in terms of congress investigating this. You’re right, it shouldn’t be any concern to congress what is going on with MLB, but the MLB doesn’t have much of a choice? .
What can MLB do? Do away with a banned substance list? Can anyone tell me what MLB can do differently help the situation (as a whole, not just in baseball)?
If we want to talk about the whole issue, we still can’t blame the MLB. If congress is using them to push their agenda, well, they really don’t have a choice but to be used.
I agree the entire issue is not black and white, but in baseball, they have to try their best to make it so.
The fact that these issues are related, is that MLB’s fault or congress? The media? The fans? Who?
Hint: It’s not MLB’s fault.
Once we can figure that out, we can starting pointing fingers and blaming people.
In the meantime, I can say I have no problems with the way baseball’s policy is set up or the way it enforces it’s rules. The rules that people already knew before they signed up to play.[/quote]
But the rules are changing after players have signed their contracts. The rules are constantly changing. You are wrong about this particular issue. If a guy with secondary hypogandism (a fucked pituitary gland) is using hCG theraputically then signs a contract, then 6 months later MLB bans hCG. What does he do? Stop his treatment and watch his life go down the toilet?
I find it crazy that you can accept the “rules are rules” line.
Dude for a LankyMofo you’re actually pretty thick aren’t you ?
What’s with the personal insults? If this is the road you want to go, no problem. You’re a poopie head.
Once more…This isn’t about Baseball. Congress is involved. Mis-information about legit drugs is being propagated and public perceptions are being wrongly influenced on a massive scale. Doctors and Pharmacies are being compromised and men a suffering because of it.
Ok. I’m talking about baseball. And all I’m saying is that if steroids are illegal in BASEBALL, then I don’t care what other conditions, diseases, malfunctions, dysfunctions you have, you shouldn’t be using steroids. Period.
You are saying that there are no grey areas;
I’m saying baseball attempts to make it so there are no grey areas. They have rules and if you violate them, you get suspended. I think this is the right thing to do.
You are saying that the rules of baseball are more important than the relationship between a man and his Doctor. This is just wrong.
Lol, where did I say this? Are you even reading? First you interpret my statement about the rules of BASEBALL (isn’t that what we’re talking about?) to law enforcement and kids being tested in little league, now you’re coming up with this? Man, you really are a poopie head.
I’m saying that if a doctor thinks it’s best that a baseball player use a substance that is on the banned substance list for the MLB, it’s the players choice to do what he wants. He can choose baseball or choose the (hopefully) successful treatment of whatever disorder he may have. No one in this country is granted the right to play baseball for a living.
I’m sorry you have a shitty job.
I don’t have a shitty job, I have a good job making pretty good money. Random drug testing doesn’t change that because they are the rules of my company that I knew before I signed up (willfully) to work here. No biggie.
But this doesn’t mean everyone else has to have shitty jobs also. My advice is you should work hard to change that,you could work for yourself if you wanted to. There are no laws against that, but when enough people start thinking like you do I suppose there will be. Until then, there is opportunity and freedom available in this country; opportunity and freedom that we are losing bit by bit. Your attitude on this is frightening.
I don’t want to change where I work. I like it here. You’re making way too many assumptions about my job and where I work based on the fact that they have random drug testing. Like I said, every employee here is aware of that fact before they sign up to work here. Don’t like the rules? Get a different job!
BTW Baseball is a game that’s worked for our country as a past-time for so long precisely because of the freedoms involved, because of the grey areas which are such a welcome escape from the shitty, rigid world of black and white. Time is a grey area in baseball; there are no clocks. The strike zone is a grey area; Umps can call them tight or loose and players have the ability to influence the calls with their own personal style. Morality is also grey; You can steal, you can decoy, you can lie and cheat and deceive and if you’re good enough at all of that you can get yourself into the hall of fame alongside Babe Ruth who used illegal drugs for his entire career.
I don’t even know what you’re getting at here. Is this supposed to be logical thinking?
Bonez replies are pretty intelligent and he’s actually reading what I’m writing. I think we’re actually making some progress. But you, well, if you come back with another retarded response like this that doesn’t show any trace of logic, nor shows that you’re reading what I’m writing, I’m going to respond by calling you a poopie head and that’s it. That way you’ll know I’ve read your response and deemed it unworthy of my time.[/quote]
The culture of Baseball is analogous to the culture of our country.
MLB (the owners)is changing the rules as they go so they can make money and they are using the public, myopic people like you, so that they can get richer. It’s now to the point where rules in Baseball are being used to shape the laws we live by.
The primary collateral damage of this is simultaneous erosions of the freedoms and culture that have made the game so great for so long, and the freedoms of Doctors to treat their patients.
You cannot limit your arguement exclusively to baseball because the two, rules of baseball and laws of the USA are now related- similar how markets for food and fuel are now related. That is what this thread is about.
Once again, your attitude that it’s ok for someone, no matter what they do for a living, to be forced to chose between their job and medical treatment is really frightening.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Edit: And to clarify, there really isn’t anything MLB can do in terms of congress investigating this. You’re right, it shouldn’t be any concern to congress what is going on with MLB, but the MLB doesn’t have much of a choice? .
What can MLB do? Do away with a banned substance list? Can anyone tell me what MLB can do differently help the situation (as a whole, not just in baseball)?
If we want to talk about the whole issue, we still can’t blame the MLB. If congress is using them to push their agenda, well, they really don’t have a choice but to be used.
I agree the entire issue is not black and white, but in baseball, they have to try their best to make it so.[/quote]
Each case should be treated on an individual basis. Research should be done prior to issuing a suspension.
To my knowledge MLB did research the issue, because the hCG metabolites were discovered after high T levels were reported in a spring training urine test. MLB explicitly stated that they did not care that Manny has a legit reason BECAUSE he failed to file the paperwork. That is absolutely retarded. I know making exceptions is a slippery slope but the ramifications of his suspension on his legacy and ability to sign a contract in the future is compromised becase MLB decided that failure to fill out a piece of paper trumped the fact that he may be innocent of cheating the game.
