Manny Ramirez Suspended

Off Topic
62

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Tyler23 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
What you don’t seem to understand is if people start acting as if taking claims of ED as serious is “naive”, then expect the same to happen to you in the future should you ever need the medication.

Some of you seem to be seeing this shit only through the light of baseball. I couldn’t care less about baseball. I don’t even follow Manny’s career. The effects of how people respond to this bullshit will go much farther than a baseball diamond.

Anyone able to understand that should not be cheering this action on.

I cringed when I saw this article this morning. My doc recently prescribed me HCG for low T. I called every compounding pharmacy in my area (Portland OR) and no one could fill it. One guy was honest enough to tell me that he won’t touch it because of DEA scrutiny. He told me unless I was a female with a script from a fertility doc, no one in the area would fill it.

Pathetic.

Now HCG is going to be a household phrase and even more difficult to get.

That really is pathetic.

The 21st century Salem witch trials continue. Stay tuned. We’ll be right back with the weather.

[/quote]

There are no public spokespeople against this action from what I can tell. I am guessing everyone is afraid of losing their license or their job because I haven’t seen one medical professional come forward to defend this medication or “anti-aging/HRT therapy” in general. They are literally allowing poorly informed reporters to control what the public believes.

I am not one to believe in conspiracy, but when you have 60% of men in the country with some form of gyno, more than half of the country is obese, environmental estrogens are now being noted as a real threat, and the public view of everything that used to represent “masculinity” turns completely negative while villainizing medications that can improve the quality of life for men, it makes me wonder if it is simply coincidence.

By focusing on baseball, they allow this issue to be trivialized. Fans are too caught up in the game to realize what is going on in the real world that could affect them as well eventually.

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[quote]Mr Anderson wrote:

I was having a discussion with my friends about the Ortiz slump about a week ago before all this Manny business. While I love Ortiz and his ability to come through in big games, he fits the prototypical profile of a steroid user in baseball. He had decent numbers in Minnesota, the better numbers coming later and then did even better with the Sox. A lot can be said of being in a better lineup and all the other factors, but with all the PED use running around baseball he fits the profile. I am NOT saying that he used, I am presenting the argument my friends and I were having.

[/quote]

NAH…Ortiz had some awesome years because the conditions were right; now he’s slumping for no other reason than his job SUCKS because it’s become exactly that- just a job. The Red Sox, as they do, have weeded out all players with real character and are fielding their current dream team of white-boy corporate brown-nosers peppered with a few deferential japanese wannabes and their usual token latino scared-of-his-own-shadow-shortstop, who they keep around for the fan’s to whip…anyway, if you’re looking to explain Ortiz’s slump I would start there before I thought about roids. The relationship of quality of work enviroment to quality of performance is pretty strong. Besides that, he’s TESTED for roids you know ? Why are you so anxious to hang him without ANY evidence… actually in the face of real, scientific evidence -mandatory drug tests- that say he’s NOT on steroids ?

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Is it established that Manny has secondary hypogonadism?

Not that I think that that type of information should be available to the public but if that is the case it is absolutely absurd that he can’t proper treatment for a legitimate medical condition.

If he doesn’t have secondary hypogonadism does anyone know if there are any other legit medical reasons for hCG use? (Steroid guys ASSEMBLE!!!)

I know it is possible to use hCG as a PED. Even if the person is not using AAS.

He might have erectile dysfunction for all we know and maybe his doc was trying to correct it this way (who knows?). Either way, I do not believe it is our business what every athlete does at his doctor’s office and there SHOULD be loopholes in these restrictions that allow the treatment of actual dysfunction if it exists…without it being News at 11. The sad thing is no man in the public eye can apparently have their penis fixed if it quits working properly because someone is going to yell “cheater!”.

I really don’t think the average person understands how much this is screwing guys over all over the country every time this hits the news. Good luck finding HRT when you hit 45 after all of this.[/quote]

Yep, I’m 45. the guys I know that chose to go looking for HRT do it illegally.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
There are no public spokespeople against this action from what I can tell. I am guessing everyone is afraid of losing their license or their job because I haven’t seen one medical professional come forward to defend this medication or “anti-aging/HRT therapy” in general. They are literally allowing poorly informed reporters to control what the public believes.
[/quote]

It’s not ok for men to want to be “men”. We’re emasculated in the media, on tv shows and commercials, especially. We’re supposed to be afraid of our wives. Most men are portrayed as bumbling fools. Having someone take up the cause for us to be hormonaly healthy isn’t something I expect to see anytime soon. And to have our Congress talk about steroid use in baseball for even a second, while ignoring all of the other dangers we encountered (as you describe later in your post), is wrong on so many levels.

66

Even if he did knowingly take roids…which he may or may not of, we’ll never know…regardless it doesn’t help you pick up the ball easier, make you have better eye and hand coordination, etc etc. All these people say he’s cheating, I agree to a point, but not fully. He’s a great baseball player regardless of whether he takes steroids or not. Hitting a baseball is a highly skilled sport, yes strength is a factor, but its one factor out of many! In my opinion, the most benefit someone would get from taking roids is recovering from injury much quicker. I personally know some big leaguers who have done it or considered doing it for that simple reason.

This whole baseball steroid thing is ridiculous, it needs to end. Its a waste of time and money. Go catch some real criminals…who gives a fuck if Roger Clemens is lying and why have a congressional hearing on the damn thing!? Until these guys salaries are based on there 1RM bench, that’s when we can say their really cheating

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a

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[quote]swivel wrote:
Mr Anderson wrote:

I was having a discussion with my friends about the Ortiz slump about a week ago before all this Manny business. While I love Ortiz and his ability to come through in big games, he fits the prototypical profile of a steroid user in baseball. He had decent numbers in Minnesota, the better numbers coming later and then did even better with the Sox. A lot can be said of being in a better lineup and all the other factors, but with all the PED use running around baseball he fits the profile. I am NOT saying that he used, I am presenting the argument my friends and I were having.

NAH…Ortiz had some awesome years because the conditions were right; now he’s slumping for no other reason than his job SUCKS because it’s become exactly that- just a job. The Red Sox, as they do, have weeded out all players with real character and are fielding their current dream team of white-boy corporate brown-nosers peppered with a few deferential japanese wannabes and their usual token latino scared-of-his-own-shadow-shortstop, who they keep around for the fan’s to whip…anyway, if you’re looking to explain Ortiz’s slump I would start there before I thought about roids. The relationship of quality of work enviroment to quality of performance is pretty strong. Besides that, he’s TESTED for roids you know ? Why are you so anxious to hang him without ANY evidence… actually in the face of real, scientific evidence -mandatory drug tests- that say he’s NOT on steroids ?
[/quote]

Dude it basically sounds like your a Sox hater or a pissed off fan? Baseball wise they have legit talent as proved last year and I see them getting hot later this year and making a serious run, IF Ortiz can return to form.

I am not anxious to hang him, I am saying that he fits the profile and in this time of rampant PED use in all sports it would not surprise me at all if he used. Baseball’s testing policy was an absolute joke. Look at the evidence my man. If you wanna say it is circumstantial, well it is. All I am saying is that the discussion I had with my friends is about how he fits the profile of players that have used. Average player, then exploded to be dominant with the Sox and once testing got serious, he numbers dropped significantly.

I don’t have any scientific evidence, but I can pretty much tell you that Brady Anderson was using when he blew up and hit 50 homers in a year or how a small 2nd baseman, Bret Boone, started dropping bombs outta no where. Just b/c there is no evidence does not mean you shouldnt use your brain to think. I am not saying that Ortiz was 100% on anything. I am saying that he very well might have been based on evidence. In this day in baseball, I dont think that would surprise anyone.

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Brady Anderson did stick a lot of things in his ass, from what I heard :wink:

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[quote]nyyanks25 wrote:
If the report of ED is true, then it is a huge embarrassment for Manny and baseball should be ashamed for taking this story to the news right away.

But if he has a prescription for these drugs to treat ED, couldn’t Manny have just produced a prescription or other documentation to MLB? If that happened chances are that this would have worked out better and no suspension.

Why did Manny not simply produce the prescription from his doctor to MLB?

[/quote]

because like you said, its embarassing. that stuff would have been leaked by someone.

73

[quote]xkungpowx wrote:
Althought I’m bummed about JC being out of the lineup (especially since none of our pitchers can get their act togeter except for Park), I’m not complaining about it. He took the substance, it was banned, end of story (for me).

If you are a professional athlete you need to be extremely maticulous about what you put into your body, whether it is your calories or you supplements. You don’t just take supplements/pills/whatever because someone gives them to you, and if you do I think your stupid. Manny (or any other athlete) should be aware of the rules in which they need to operate under, and be sure that they submit to those rules… it is their job. Its not like he ate some new vegetable that he never had before, it was a drug (even if it was prescribed). He should be wise enough within his profession to assess if he is permited to take it or not. Its not as if the list of banned substances are hidden and unknown.

Is the MLBs list a bit too extensive? Probably.
But, if athletes want to take something on the list, they should make an appeal to the item in question, not take it and hope they don’t get caught.[/quote]

man …this post bugs me on so many levels but primarily because you aren’t wearing your “Free JC” shirt and from your post it sounds like you wouldn’t even consider owning one. JC took something that he purchased over the counter, in a GNC store, something everyone in this country has a right to buy and use, something that he checked with the team trainer, and not only one but TWO nutritionists(this amounts to triple checking btw) and he’s still suspended for 50 days.

JC did everything right and he’s still getting fucked…this bothers me, but not nearly as much as the fact that you say you’re a Philly fan but aren’t supporting JC. And this is the way it seems the whole country is thinking. It used to be that fans supported the players and hated the owners, but now it’s vice-e-versa isn’t it ?

74

[quote]swivel wrote:
xkungpowx wrote:

Althought I’m bummed about JC being out of the lineup (especially since none of our pitchers can get their act togeter except for Park), I’m not complaining about it. He took the substance, it was banned, end of story (for me).

If you are a professional athlete you need to be extremely maticulous about what you put into your body, whether it is your calories or you supplements. You don’t just take supplements/pills/whatever because someone gives them to you, and if you do I think your stupid. Manny (or any other athlete) should be aware of the rules in which they need to operate under, and be sure that they submit to those rules… it is their job. Its not like he ate some new vegetable that he never had before, it was a drug (even if it was prescribed). He should be wise enough within his profession to assess if he is permited to take it or not. Its not as if the list of banned substances are hidden and unknown.

Is the MLBs list a bit too extensive? Probably.
But, if athletes want to take something on the list, they should make an appeal to the item in question, not take it and hope they don’t get caught.

man …this post bugs me on so many levels but primarily because you aren’t wearing your “Free JC” shirt and from your post it sounds like you wouldn’t even consider owning one. JC took something that he purchased over the counter, in a GNC store, something everyone in this country has a right to buy and use, something that he checked with the team trainer, and not only one but TWO nutritionists(this amounts to triple checking btw) and he’s still suspended for 50 days. JC did everything right and he’s still getting fucked…this bothers me, but not nearly as much as the fact that you say you’re a Philly fan but aren’t supporting JC. And this is the way it seems the whole country is thinking. It used to be that fans supported the players and hated the owners, but now it’s vice-e-versa isn’t it ?
[/quote]

Trust me, politicians are LOVING the people who are so blind as to see this as a “black and white” issue only.

It is the information age yet people seem more easily duped than ever before.

75

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Mr Anderson wrote:

…I don’t have any scientific evidence, but I can pretty much tell you that Brady Anderson was using when he blew up and hit 50 homers in a year or how a small 2nd baseman, Bret Boone, started dropping bombs outta no where. Just b/c there is no evidence does not mean you shouldnt use your brain to think…

You should apply for the next available MLB congressional investigator position. You sound like you have a unique gift that could help battle this virulent scourge that so infects America’s Game.[/quote]

Or our politicians should use their brains to help find the truth on issues instead of using their brains to get behind such a catastrophe as “steroids” just so they can get re-elected. Maybe that.

76

No suprise. what a tool.

77

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
Professor X wrote:
xkungpowx wrote:
swivel wrote:
Cialis and Viagra won’t help you if you’re hypogonadal…But whatever we say here is speculation. The fact is he saw a Physician and was treated with medicine. Why is this so hard to accept ? Because you think he was well aware ? why does everyone think this ? You should understand this man because your boy JC Romero is getting fucked right now by this same sort of “no tolerence” witchhunt. They said the same things about JC that they’re saying about Manny now, that he knows exactly that he was cheating, but it’s not that simple.

“I’m afraid to take anything, even a vitamin. My wife won’t let me. You just don’t know. The list of banned stuff, half of it on there you could get at GNC five years ago.” Orlando Cabrera

“It’s a little confusing from what I’ve seen, because there’s guys out there taking things that sometimes you can buy it over the counter – sometimes it’s banned, sometimes it’s not on the list,” Ortiz said. “I don’t know. … You definitely got to be careful, man.” David Ortiz

Giants reliever Jeremy Affeldt said he wouldn’t trust taking a substance recommended by a doctor not affiliated with the Giants. “That’s why I don’t take anything other than what these guys give me.”

Sounds like some people are confused t the point that won’t even take a vitamin.

Afraid to see a doctor who doesn’t have a political agenda…that’s just wrong.

Althought I’m bummed about JC being out of the lineup (especially since none of our pitchers can get their act togeter except for Park), I’m not complaining about it. He took the substance, it was banned, end of story (for me).

If you are a professional athlete you need to be extremely maticulous about what you put into your body, whether it is your calories or you supplements. You don’t just take supplements/pills/whatever because someone gives them to you, and if you do I think your stupid. Manny (or any other athlete) should be aware of the rules in which they need to operate under, and be sure that they submit to those rules… it is their job. Its not like he ate some new vegetable that he never had before, it was a drug (even if it was prescribed). He should be wise enough within his profession to assess if he is permited to take it or not. Its not as if the list of banned substances are hidden and unknown.

Is the MLBs list a bit too extensive? Probably.
But, if athletes want to take something on the list, they should make an appeal to the item in question, not take it and hope they don’t get caught.

I am now very interested in how important your working penis is to you. I have doubts as to even the majority here worrying so much about what is banned when in bed trying to bust one. I am also betting having enjoyable sex might just be worth a few million to a pro athlete.

Allowing some players to use certain drugs that are currently on the banned substance list would open the door to allowing all players, even those that are NOT in need of them. I imagine it’s pretty easy for a professional baseball player to get a doctor to prescribe them something they don’t need in order to perform better.

I’m not saying the MLB doesn’t go too far, but if a substance is banned, it MUST remain banned for everyone, regardless of any players need for it for other reasons.

I can play devils advocate all day if you want.

What if a MLB player contracts HIV. Should he not be allowed to use the same AAS that other people with HIV or AIDS are using? Should he suffer the muscle wasting effects of the disease just because the drugs are banned because they improve performance in healthy individuals?

Yes, I agree that HIV/AIDS is more serious than ED. But who draws the line and where is the line drawn as far as what diseases are serious enough to make exceptions to the rule?

I chose an extreme case just to make a point. The point is that this is not a black and white issue. [/quote]

A fair point, but I think it’s the MLB’s job to make these issues black and white, and with this policy that is what they’ve done.

I agree the effects of this go far beyond baseball, which is no good, but for baseball I think rules are rules and exceptions shouldn’t be made. They can turn into a slippery slope dealing with all of the “grey” areas.

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[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

A fair point, but I think it’s the MLB’s job to make these issues black and white, and with this policy that is what they’ve done.

I agree the effects of this go far beyond baseball, which is no good, but for baseball I think rules are rules and exceptions shouldn’t be made. They can turn into a slippery slope dealing with all of the “grey” areas.[/quote]

“Rules are rules ?” These are not rules the game was built on. These are “new rules”. And why are we americans suddenly so thirsty for more law enforcement ? Jesus dude they keep adding more and more rules which only brings more and more enforcement…it’s already to the point that high school kids are being tested, high school kids who’ve done nothing wrong being presumed guilty just becuse they play sports. Next step is to start testing little league ? Parents can already buy home tests and make their youngsters pee in cups. FUCK your concern about the “slippery slope” of “grey areas” ! Baseball is a fucking GAME, A fantasy world. And now this ridiculously perverted concern for what goes on in that world is affecting real people who lead real lives.

80

[quote]pushharder wrote:

Michael Crichton’s “State of Fear”. Although it works with the global warming debate it does a fine job of illustrating why the masses must be kept in a state of fear…over something(s).
[/quote]

Thanks Push, I’ll check it out…but wait, could reading something other than USA Today somewhow jeopardize my voter registration ?