[quote]on edge wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
LOLOLOLOL @ Manny doing it for ED not Home Runs?? Yeah da fuck right.
Thank you. Manram doesn’t have erectile disfuction. Get a clue guys.[/quote]
Here’s a clue for you: If you think he’s juicing then ED helps your argument.
The thing that scares me the most is how successful the government/media has been at maligning all these substances. I read a Boston.com forum on the story and a surprising number of people truly believe that all you have to do to be a world-class hitter is to go on steroids. There were even people of the opinion that Ortiz’s recent slump was obviously due to the fact that Manny was gone so he couldn’t get drugs from him.
The Boob-Tube Generation = Pathetic.
[quote]swivel wrote:
xkungpowx wrote:
Yeah, if the Dodgers can make it to the playoffs w/o him. I doubt it.
Why would you doubt it ? Didn’t the dame thing happen last year ?
As Manny dropping th appeal it’s entirely consistent with his personality. Can you really see Manny sitting in a room being coached by lawyers (btw those guys have to be paid) and going to hearings and becoming a politician to win an un-win-able appeal instead of just kicking back and working out with the team for the next 50 days…shit never mind Manny’s personality- what would YOU do ?
He’ll be back in July and in peak form by August. The Dodgers save 7+ million and get a fresh and motivated Manny deep into the fall…Sounds like a win-win to me. Except the fact that Manny’s out a huge chunk of change but why does that bother anyone ? Last year every jackass and his brother was bitching about Manny and how he doesn’t need anymore money…so it’s even a win for the haters.
[/quote]
They did do it last year… when they had Lowe.
And then Philadelphia destroyed them… which has nothing to do with this discussion, but as an avid Philadelphia fan who experienced a championship for the first (and very possibly, only) time in my life, I want to use every possible chance to mention it.
But alas, they are in a pretty crappy division and I guess it is very possible they make it w/o Manny.
And Professor X… I’m not saying he should or shouldn’t be able to take the substance. I’m just saying there are fixes (although temporary) to ED, and he and his doctors are well aware of the rules under which he needs to abide (whether or not they agree with them). IMO This makes it clear he doesn’t have ED. Manny was well aware he was breaking the rules, and the punishment that would ensue because of it (especially with how much performance-enhancers have been in the spotlight as of late in the MLB).
[quote]xkungpowx wrote:
swivel wrote:
xkungpowx wrote:
Yeah, if the Dodgers can make it to the playoffs w/o him. I doubt it.
Why would you doubt it ? Didn’t the dame thing happen last year ?
As Manny dropping th appeal it’s entirely consistent with his personality. Can you really see Manny sitting in a room being coached by lawyers (btw those guys have to be paid) and going to hearings and becoming a politician to win an un-win-able appeal instead of just kicking back and working out with the team for the next 50 days…shit never mind Manny’s personality- what would YOU do ?
He’ll be back in July and in peak form by August. The Dodgers save 7+ million and get a fresh and motivated Manny deep into the fall…Sounds like a win-win to me. Except the fact that Manny’s out a huge chunk of change but why does that bother anyone ? Last year every jackass and his brother was bitching about Manny and how he doesn’t need anymore money…so it’s even a win for the haters.
They did do it last year… when they had Lowe.
And then Philadelphia destroyed them… which has nothing to do with this discussion, but as an avid Philadelphia fan who experienced a championship for the first (and very possibly, only) time in my life, I want to use every possible chance to mention it.
But alas, they are in a pretty crappy division and I guess it is very possible they make it w/o Manny.
And Professor X… I’m not saying he should or shouldn’t be able to take the substance. I’m just saying there are fixes (although temporary) to ED, and he and his doctors are well aware of the rules under which he needs to abide (whether or not they agree with them). IMO This makes it clear he doesn’t have ED. Manny was well aware he was breaking the rules, and the punishment that would ensue because of it (especially with how much performance-enhancers have been in the spotlight as of late in the MLB).[/quote]
Cialis and Viagra won’t help you if you’re hypogonadal…But whatever we say here is speculation. The fact is he saw a Physician and was treated with medicine. Why is this so hard to accept ? Because you think he was well aware ? why does everyone think this ? You should understand this man because your boy JC Romero is getting fucked right now by this same sort of “no tolerence” witchhunt. They said the same things about JC that they’re saying about Manny now, that he knows exactly that he was cheating, but it’s not that simple.
“I’m afraid to take anything, even a vitamin. My wife won’t let me. You just don’t know. The list of banned stuff, half of it on there you could get at GNC five years ago.” Orlando Cabrera
“It’s a little confusing from what I’ve seen, because there’s guys out there taking things that sometimes you can buy it over the counter – sometimes it’s banned, sometimes it’s not on the list,” Ortiz said. “I don’t know. … You definitely got to be careful, man.” David Ortiz
Giants reliever Jeremy Affeldt said he wouldn’t trust taking a substance recommended by a doctor not affiliated with the Giants. “That’s why I don’t take anything other than what these guys give me.”
Sounds like some people are confused t the point that won’t even take a vitamin.
Afraid to see a doctor who doesn’t have a political agenda…that’s just wrong.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
so far they’re saying Hcg is for female fertility.
No reports about it being used as PCT. Wonder how long till they catch on.
[/quote]
Not long, straight from the article:
“Ramirez’s medical files that he was using human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG), a fertility drug for women that has been known to be used by athletes to generate the body’s production of testosterone after steroid use.”
[quote]swivel wrote:
Cialis and Viagra won’t help you if you’re hypogonadal…But whatever we say here is speculation. The fact is he saw a Physician and was treated with medicine. Why is this so hard to accept ? Because you think he was well aware ? why does everyone think this ? You should understand this man because your boy JC Romero is getting fucked right now by this same sort of “no tolerence” witchhunt. They said the same things about JC that they’re saying about Manny now, that he knows exactly that he was cheating, but it’s not that simple.
“I’m afraid to take anything, even a vitamin. My wife won’t let me. You just don’t know. The list of banned stuff, half of it on there you could get at GNC five years ago.” Orlando Cabrera
“It’s a little confusing from what I’ve seen, because there’s guys out there taking things that sometimes you can buy it over the counter – sometimes it’s banned, sometimes it’s not on the list,” Ortiz said. “I don’t know. … You definitely got to be careful, man.” David Ortiz
Giants reliever Jeremy Affeldt said he wouldn’t trust taking a substance recommended by a doctor not affiliated with the Giants. “That’s why I don’t take anything other than what these guys give me.”
Sounds like some people are confused t the point that won’t even take a vitamin.
Afraid to see a doctor who doesn’t have a political agenda…that’s just wrong.
[/quote]
Althought I’m bummed about JC being out of the lineup (especially since none of our pitchers can get their act togeter except for Park), I’m not complaining about it. He took the substance, it was banned, end of story (for me).
If you are a professional athlete you need to be extremely maticulous about what you put into your body, whether it is your calories or you supplements. You don’t just take supplements/pills/whatever because someone gives them to you, and if you do I think your stupid. Manny (or any other athlete) should be aware of the rules in which they need to operate under, and be sure that they submit to those rules… it is their job. Its not like he ate some new vegetable that he never had before, it was a drug (even if it was prescribed). He should be wise enough within his profession to assess if he is permited to take it or not. Its not as if the list of banned substances are hidden and unknown.
Is the MLBs list a bit too extensive? Probably.
But, if athletes want to take something on the list, they should make an appeal to the item in question, not take it and hope they don’t get caught.
[quote]swivel wrote:
on edge wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
LOLOLOLOL @ Manny doing it for ED not Home Runs?? Yeah da fuck right.
Thank you. Manram doesn’t have erectile disfunction. Get a clue guys.
Here’s a clue for you: If you think he’s juicing then ED helps your argument.
[/quote]
I’m not sure what are saying, but I think nearly all pro athletes with ED, have it because they’ve been playing with pharmacology.
I find it funny coming from a division rival, hahaha.
[quote]xkungpowx wrote:
swivel wrote:
Cialis and Viagra won’t help you if you’re hypogonadal…But whatever we say here is speculation. The fact is he saw a Physician and was treated with medicine. Why is this so hard to accept ? Because you think he was well aware ? why does everyone think this ? You should understand this man because your boy JC Romero is getting fucked right now by this same sort of “no tolerence” witchhunt. They said the same things about JC that they’re saying about Manny now, that he knows exactly that he was cheating, but it’s not that simple.
“I’m afraid to take anything, even a vitamin. My wife won’t let me. You just don’t know. The list of banned stuff, half of it on there you could get at GNC five years ago.” Orlando Cabrera
“It’s a little confusing from what I’ve seen, because there’s guys out there taking things that sometimes you can buy it over the counter – sometimes it’s banned, sometimes it’s not on the list,” Ortiz said. “I don’t know. … You definitely got to be careful, man.” David Ortiz
Giants reliever Jeremy Affeldt said he wouldn’t trust taking a substance recommended by a doctor not affiliated with the Giants. “That’s why I don’t take anything other than what these guys give me.”
Sounds like some people are confused t the point that won’t even take a vitamin.
Afraid to see a doctor who doesn’t have a political agenda…that’s just wrong.
Althought I’m bummed about JC being out of the lineup (especially since none of our pitchers can get their act togeter except for Park), I’m not complaining about it. He took the substance, it was banned, end of story (for me).
If you are a professional athlete you need to be extremely maticulous about what you put into your body, whether it is your calories or you supplements. You don’t just take supplements/pills/whatever because someone gives them to you, and if you do I think your stupid. Manny (or any other athlete) should be aware of the rules in which they need to operate under, and be sure that they submit to those rules… it is their job. Its not like he ate some new vegetable that he never had before, it was a drug (even if it was prescribed). He should be wise enough within his profession to assess if he is permited to take it or not. Its not as if the list of banned substances are hidden and unknown.
Is the MLBs list a bit too extensive? Probably.
But, if athletes want to take something on the list, they should make an appeal to the item in question, not take it and hope they don’t get caught.[/quote]
I am now very interested in how important your working penis is to you. I have doubts as to even the majority here worrying so much about what is banned when in bed trying to bust one. I am also betting having enjoyable sex might just be worth a few million to a pro athlete.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
xkungpowx wrote:
swivel wrote:
Cialis and Viagra won’t help you if you’re hypogonadal…But whatever we say here is speculation. The fact is he saw a Physician and was treated with medicine. Why is this so hard to accept ? Because you think he was well aware ? why does everyone think this ? You should understand this man because your boy JC Romero is getting fucked right now by this same sort of “no tolerence” witchhunt. They said the same things about JC that they’re saying about Manny now, that he knows exactly that he was cheating, but it’s not that simple.
“I’m afraid to take anything, even a vitamin. My wife won’t let me. You just don’t know. The list of banned stuff, half of it on there you could get at GNC five years ago.” Orlando Cabrera
“It’s a little confusing from what I’ve seen, because there’s guys out there taking things that sometimes you can buy it over the counter – sometimes it’s banned, sometimes it’s not on the list,” Ortiz said. “I don’t know. … You definitely got to be careful, man.” David Ortiz
Giants reliever Jeremy Affeldt said he wouldn’t trust taking a substance recommended by a doctor not affiliated with the Giants. “That’s why I don’t take anything other than what these guys give me.”
Sounds like some people are confused t the point that won’t even take a vitamin.
Afraid to see a doctor who doesn’t have a political agenda…that’s just wrong.
Althought I’m bummed about JC being out of the lineup (especially since none of our pitchers can get their act togeter except for Park), I’m not complaining about it. He took the substance, it was banned, end of story (for me).
If you are a professional athlete you need to be extremely maticulous about what you put into your body, whether it is your calories or you supplements. You don’t just take supplements/pills/whatever because someone gives them to you, and if you do I think your stupid. Manny (or any other athlete) should be aware of the rules in which they need to operate under, and be sure that they submit to those rules… it is their job. Its not like he ate some new vegetable that he never had before, it was a drug (even if it was prescribed). He should be wise enough within his profession to assess if he is permited to take it or not. Its not as if the list of banned substances are hidden and unknown.
Is the MLBs list a bit too extensive? Probably.
But, if athletes want to take something on the list, they should make an appeal to the item in question, not take it and hope they don’t get caught.
I am now very interested in how important your working penis is to you. I have doubts as to even the majority here worrying so much about what is banned when in bed trying to bust one. I am also betting having enjoyable sex might just be worth a few million to a pro athlete.[/quote]
Allowing some players to use certain drugs that are currently on the banned substance list would open the door to allowing all players, even those that are NOT in need of them. I imagine it’s pretty easy for a professional baseball player to get a doctor to prescribe them something they don’t need in order to perform better.
I’m not saying the MLB doesn’t go too far, but if a substance is banned, it MUST remain banned for everyone, regardless of any players need for it for other reasons.
I’m one of the biggest Manny fans out there, even after he burned his way out of town last year. But if you guys are taking ED arguments/excuses at face value, you’re being awfully naive.
[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
I’m one of the biggest Manny fans out there, even after he burned his way out of town last year. But if you guys are taking ED arguments/excuses at face value, you’re being awfully naive.[/quote]
What you don’t seem to understand is if people start acting as if taking claims of ED as serious is “naive”, then expect the same to happen to you in the future should you ever need the medication.
Some of you seem to be seeing this shit only through the light of baseball. I couldn’t care less about baseball. I don’t even follow Manny’s career. The effects of how people respond to this bullshit will go much farther than a baseball diamond.
Anyone able to understand that should not be cheering this action on.
[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
I’m one of the biggest Manny fans out there, even after he burned his way out of town last year. But if you guys are taking ED arguments/excuses at face value, you’re being awfully naive.[/quote]
Likewise for taking the word of anyone trying to sell you something at face value…MLB,WADA,CONGRESS,SELENA ROBERTS et All. People are allowing their freedoms to evaporate at the hands of these folks. They are guilty are stealing far more from the public than any athlete ever could.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Professor X wrote:
xkungpowx wrote:
swivel wrote:
Cialis and Viagra won’t help you if you’re hypogonadal…But whatever we say here is speculation. The fact is he saw a Physician and was treated with medicine. Why is this so hard to accept ? Because you think he was well aware ? why does everyone think this ? You should understand this man because your boy JC Romero is getting fucked right now by this same sort of “no tolerence” witchhunt. They said the same things about JC that they’re saying about Manny now, that he knows exactly that he was cheating, but it’s not that simple.
“I’m afraid to take anything, even a vitamin. My wife won’t let me. You just don’t know. The list of banned stuff, half of it on there you could get at GNC five years ago.” Orlando Cabrera
“It’s a little confusing from what I’ve seen, because there’s guys out there taking things that sometimes you can buy it over the counter – sometimes it’s banned, sometimes it’s not on the list,” Ortiz said. “I don’t know. … You definitely got to be careful, man.” David Ortiz
Giants reliever Jeremy Affeldt said he wouldn’t trust taking a substance recommended by a doctor not affiliated with the Giants. “That’s why I don’t take anything other than what these guys give me.”
Sounds like some people are confused t the point that won’t even take a vitamin.
Afraid to see a doctor who doesn’t have a political agenda…that’s just wrong.
Althought I’m bummed about JC being out of the lineup (especially since none of our pitchers can get their act togeter except for Park), I’m not complaining about it. He took the substance, it was banned, end of story (for me).
If you are a professional athlete you need to be extremely maticulous about what you put into your body, whether it is your calories or you supplements. You don’t just take supplements/pills/whatever because someone gives them to you, and if you do I think your stupid. Manny (or any other athlete) should be aware of the rules in which they need to operate under, and be sure that they submit to those rules… it is their job. Its not like he ate some new vegetable that he never had before, it was a drug (even if it was prescribed). He should be wise enough within his profession to assess if he is permited to take it or not. Its not as if the list of banned substances are hidden and unknown.
Is the MLBs list a bit too extensive? Probably.
But, if athletes want to take something on the list, they should make an appeal to the item in question, not take it and hope they don’t get caught.
I am now very interested in how important your working penis is to you. I have doubts as to even the majority here worrying so much about what is banned when in bed trying to bust one. I am also betting having enjoyable sex might just be worth a few million to a pro athlete.
Allowing some players to use certain drugs that are currently on the banned substance list would open the door to allowing all players, even those that are NOT in need of them. I imagine it’s pretty easy for a professional baseball player to get a doctor to prescribe them something they don’t need in order to perform better.
I’m not saying the MLB doesn’t go too far, but if a substance is banned, it MUST remain banned for everyone, regardless of any players need for it for other reasons.[/quote]
I can play devils advocate all day if you want.
What if a MLB player contracts HIV. Should he not be allowed to use the same AAS that other people with HIV or AIDS are using? Should he suffer the muscle wasting effects of the disease just because the drugs are banned because they improve performance in healthy individuals?
Yes, I agree that HIV/AIDS is more serious than ED. But who draws the line and where is the line drawn as far as what diseases are serious enough to make exceptions to the rule?
I chose an extreme case just to make a point. The point is that this is not a black and white issue.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
What you don’t seem to understand is if people start acting as if taking claims of ED as serious is “naive”, then expect the same to happen to you in the future should you ever need the medication.
Some of you seem to be seeing this shit only through the light of baseball. I couldn’t care less about baseball. I don’t even follow Manny’s career. The effects of how people respond to this bullshit will go much farther than a baseball diamond.
Anyone able to understand that should not be cheering this action on.[/quote]
I cringed when I saw this article this morning. My doc recently prescribed me HCG for low T. I called every compounding pharmacy in my area (Portland OR) and no one could fill it. One guy was honest enough to tell me that he won’t touch it because of DEA scrutiny. He told me unless I was a female with a script from a fertility doc, no one in the area would fill it.
Pathetic.
Now HCG is going to be a household phrase and even more difficult to get.
BTW, John Stossel has a bit on steroids tonight on 20/20. The preview looks good.
[quote]Tyler23 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
What you don’t seem to understand is if people start acting as if taking claims of ED as serious is “naive”, then expect the same to happen to you in the future should you ever need the medication.
Some of you seem to be seeing this shit only through the light of baseball. I couldn’t care less about baseball. I don’t even follow Manny’s career. The effects of how people respond to this bullshit will go much farther than a baseball diamond.
Anyone able to understand that should not be cheering this action on.
I cringed when I saw this article this morning. My doc recently prescribed me HCG for low T. I called every compounding pharmacy in my area (Portland OR) and no one could fill it. One guy was honest enough to tell me that he won’t touch it because of DEA scrutiny. He told me unless I was a female with a script from a fertility doc, no one in the area would fill it.
Pathetic.
Now HCG is going to be a household phrase and even more difficult to get.
[/quote]
Unfortunately, most in this thread seem more focused on baseball than the fact that this is the outcome of this mass hysteria.
Good luck with that issue.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Tyler23 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
What you don’t seem to understand is if people start acting as if taking claims of ED as serious is “naive”, then expect the same to happen to you in the future should you ever need the medication.
Some of you seem to be seeing this shit only through the light of baseball. I couldn’t care less about baseball. I don’t even follow Manny’s career. The effects of how people respond to this bullshit will go much farther than a baseball diamond.
Anyone able to understand that should not be cheering this action on.
I cringed when I saw this article this morning. My doc recently prescribed me HCG for low T. I called every compounding pharmacy in my area (Portland OR) and no one could fill it. One guy was honest enough to tell me that he won’t touch it because of DEA scrutiny. He told me unless I was a female with a script from a fertility doc, no one in the area would fill it.
Pathetic.
Now HCG is going to be a household phrase and even more difficult to get.
Unfortunately, most in this thread seem more focused on baseball than the fact that this is the outcome of this mass hysteria.
Good luck with that issue.[/quote]
I completely agree with you that the government should not be over-regulating what doctors can and can’t prescribe to patients. I see the banning of steroids the same way as medical marijuana being illegal. The federal government is taking away viable treatment from doctors for the facade of safety.
But in the specific case of Ramirez and baseball, he is clearly guilty of breaking the rules because there are exemptions in place for medical issues. So even if he and his doctor concluded he had a valid need, he screwed up by not applying for the medical exemption. Plain and simple.
Here is what I think about the topic. The MLB set a rule, right or wrong, and Manny broke it. This 50 game suspension is fine. I love Manny, and am a Dodger’s fan, but rules are rules. I don’t think there is anything wrong with what the MLB has done, but it is ridiculous what the media has done. An LA reporter, Bill Plaschke, said that Manny has betrayed LA and he should never wear an LA uniform again. He basically went psycho about it on Around the Horn. Everybody acts like he failed a drug test, and everybody acts like HCG’s only use is for a woman or a steriod user.
He never once tested positive for steroids. In fact, he passed like 15 tests over the past couple years. There is something to it when the GM of one of the best teams response to this is “You’re kidding.” Nobody said you’re kidding when they found out A-Rod was on steroids. Nobody was that surprised when Clemens was on steroids. Nobody is surprised that Bonds is on steroids. Manny is really the first superstar to shock people about being on steriods. The funny thing is, he never tested positive for steroids! What exactly is it about Manny that makes you think steroids? Outside of homers, nothing makes you think steroids when you think of Manny. The other three I mentioned, it’s obvious how they benefited from steroids.
So basically I’m not mad at the MLB or the 50 game suspension, but the media needs to back off. I’ve yet to see anything say that he may not have taken steroids. In fact, hardly anybody has even mentioned that he had ED. The media isn’t giving people the facts to make up their own mind.
[quote]Kruiser wrote:
The thing that scares me the most is how successful the government/media has been at maligning all these substances. I read a Boston.com forum on the story and a surprising number of people truly believe that all you have to do to be a world-class hitter is to go on steroids. There were even people of the opinion that Ortiz’s recent slump was obviously due to the fact that Manny was gone so he couldn’t get drugs from him.
The Boob-Tube Generation = Pathetic.
[/quote]
I was having a discussion with my friends about the Ortiz slump about a week ago before all this Manny business. While I love Ortiz and his ability to come through in big games, he fits the prototypical profile of a steroid user in baseball. He had decent numbers in Minnesota, the better numbers coming later and then did even better with the Sox. A lot can be said of being in a better lineup and all the other factors, but with all the PED use running around baseball he fits the profile. I am NOT saying that he used, I am presenting the argument my friends and I were having.