[quote]nephorm wrote:
There is no thing a man can do, that another will not find some way to find fault with it.[/quote]
Good post
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
CrewPierce wrote:
buckeye girl wrote:
White male privilege is a result of the way in which social institutions are set up so that white men benefit most, and women and other races are at a disadvantage.
Except when applying to college, financial grants, and various other things when it hurts you to be a white male.
As level of education increases, the benefit of that education decreases drastically for black men. The more educated they are, the greater their earnings discrepancy relative to equally qualified white men. Thought you might be interested to know.[/quote]
This is exactly wrong.
The return on education is higher for black men than for white men. I imagine if you emailed Professor Caplan he would share the data he tested, unless he’s planning to make it the basis of a paper.
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
EmilyQ wrote:
A similar study focused on names, using resumes. Some had ethnic-sounding names, others stereotypically “white” names. The resumes were otherwise identical. Same result. The Jamals were passed over in favor of the Jonathans.
That’s right!
I was saving it as a counter for the inevitable “the actors probably behaved differently” argument, but it’s nice to see that I’m not the only person in the world that has read these papers![/quote]
See: If Shemekia were Sally would she earn more? - Marginal REVOLUTION
and see Section 5.1 of this review of Freakonomics:
http://www.noapparentmotive.org/papers/DiNardo_on_Freakonomics.pdf
I don’t know if you’re trying to imply a cause, but just in case anyone was trying to infer one…
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
…
Teenage boys,now they are starting to be seen more as 'men 'and get treated accordingly,which is to say they get respect but no deference.Same goes for middle aged and young men.
So perhaps in my mind it’s more my use of what may be considered deferential treatment to more overtly show a certain amount of respect,rather than just the respect per se.
Of course the same deferential treatment may also be seen by some as condescending and demeaning,but that then goes down to what my intent may or may not be in acting the way I do.
[/quote]
Agree 100% with this. If it’s obvious it’s meant as a nice gesture, don’t get offended, or you’re being a a douche.
I was being pithy, and probably didn’t make the point clear enough.
Just about every man would ENJOY the prospect of being approached aggressively for sex by women. So the idea that men have the “privilege” of not worrying about women jumping out of an alley at them…sorry but I seriously doubt any man is breathing a sigh of relief that they don’t have to deal with this.
I will say that I do remember reading about one instance where a man and a woman were playing a drinking game, the man passed out, and the woman managed to have unprotected sex with him without his consent (which is pretty amazing in and of itself) and gave him herpes.
Of course I read this in an anti-drinking pamphlet haha but hey that’s why I mentioned the viral STD thing earlier.
Instead of just calling me stupid, maybe you could just point out the flaws in my argument.
ALSO, about the door opening thing: I certainly do it for women and elderly (especially hot women).
Now there are some women who won’t appreciate it…they do not concern me.
I’m concerned about the hot women who DO appreciate it. 
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
Natural Nate wrote:
Well obviously a man wouldn’t worry about this…because it would be awesome.
…Well unless she was ugly. Or had a viral STD.
buckeye girl wrote:
Perhaps a better example of a privilege would be that men can be out at night and don’t really have to worry about a woman jumping out of an alley and raping them
I’m goint to assume that you are being facetious, but if that is not the case, I think you’re kind of stupid. :)[/quote]
And again (I’m starting to assume you’re not a heterosexual man) I seriously doubt any man is going to report a woman for AGGRESSIVE SEXUAL BEHAVIOR unless there’s a “Disclosure” situation brewing and he’s smart enough to see it coming.
Again, I seriously doubt any man goes to work in the morning thinking, “Gee, thank goodness I don’t have to deal with women sexually harassing me.”
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
Natural Nate wrote:
That’s because in this case it’s called flirting.
Aleksandr wrote:
but I have NEVER seen a report of a woman sexually harassing a male superior.
Like I said, most men have no idea what “sexual harassment” is. Flirting is an “approach” behavior, sexual harassment is an aggressive behavior.[/quote]
[quote]Ultimate Badass wrote:
dollarbill44 wrote:
I have to recuse myself from this thread as I am calling some guy to interview him in a minute. The funny thing is, he seems like a white guy, so the job is practically his already.
DB
The man interviewing me told me the last person to hold the position was a woman. I am taking a job that a woman formerly held. I am the devil.[/quote]
You should be ok as long as it isn’t a blow job.
[quote]m00se wrote:
nephorm wrote:
If anyone is immediately behind me, or within 20 seconds of catching up to me, I will hold the door for him or her. I don’t care who it is.
If you are an especially attractive woman, I will wait an extra 10 or 15 seconds, for the purely selfish goal of being able to watch you walk away.
My name is m00se and I approve and agree with this post. thumbs up[/quote]
Me too.
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
As far as door holding…I guess I’m just independent bitch that is too stubborn for her own good. If I’m capable of doing something on my own, I want to do it on my own.[/quote]
Or you think good manors are a bad thing.
I also assume you hate it when the guy takes you out to dinner, buys you a present for a holiday, or offers to drive; since as you said, you can do those things yourself.
It blows my mind that you find common curtsy offensive. I hold the door open for people regardless of age or gender, simply because it�??s rude to let it slam in their face.
I would wager that this overreaction to sexual inequalities only furthers the gap.
[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
…
Or you think good manors are a bad thing.
…[/quote]
Nothing wrong with nice large houses, though McMansions can be gauche and we have no need for gentry here…
[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
buckeye girl wrote:
As far as door holding…I guess I’m just independent bitch that is too stubborn for her own good. If I’m capable of doing something on my own, I want to do it on my own.
Or you think good manors are a bad thing.
I also assume you hate it when the guy takes you out to dinner, buys you a present for a holiday, or offers to drive; since as you said, you can do those things yourself.
It blows my mind that you find common curtsy offensive. I hold the door open for people regardless of age or gender, simply because it�??s rude to let it slam in their face.
I would wager that this overreaction to sexual inequalities only furthers the gap.[/quote]
There is a difference between having good manners and not letting a door slam in someone’s face and acting like a douchebag and running to the door so that you can hold it open.
Of course I like it when my boyfriend takes me out to dinner. It’s only fair considering that I took him out last time. And again, gift giving goes both ways.
I just to not want to be treated like a child. I can open doors, I know how to scoot my chair in, and I can carry my own stuff.
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
CrewPierce wrote:
buckeye girl wrote:
As far as door holding…I guess I’m just independent bitch that is too stubborn for her own good. If I’m capable of doing something on my own, I want to do it on my own.
Or you think good manors are a bad thing.
I also assume you hate it when the guy takes you out to dinner, buys you a present for a holiday, or offers to drive; since as you said, you can do those things yourself.
It blows my mind that you find common curtsy offensive. I hold the door open for people regardless of age or gender, simply because it�??s rude to let it slam in their face.
I would wager that this overreaction to sexual inequalities only furthers the gap.
There is a difference between having good manners and not letting a door slam in someone’s face and acting like a douchebag and running to the door so that you can hold it open.
Of course I like it when my boyfriend takes me out to dinner. It’s only fair considering that I took him out last time. And again, gift giving goes both ways.
I just to not want to be treated like a child. I can open doors, I know how to scoot my chair in, and I can carry my own stuff.[/quote]
Do you wear lots of flannel?
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Do you wear lots of flannel?[/quote]
I do actually. I happen to think that it looks fantastic with the cargo shorts and combat boots I wear. How did you know? 
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Do you wear lots of flannel?
I do actually. I happen to think that it looks fantastic with the cargo shorts and combat boots I wear. How did you know? :P[/quote]
Pics please.
Are you guys trying to imply that there is something wrong with being a child or with being elderly? I always had respect for the elderly because of the experience they had that I lack. Theyve seen a lot and I reason that there is a great deal that can be learned from them. They created the world in which I live today and for that I respect them. I hold the door for the elderly, women, and children not out of some disdain or condescending spirit, but because all three groups have something to offer society that I cant bring to the table.
[quote]nephorm wrote:
If anyone is immediately behind me, or within 20 seconds of catching up to me, I will hold the door for him or her. I don’t care who it is.
If you are an especially attractive woman, I will wait an extra 10 or 15 seconds, for the purely selfish goal of being able to watch you walk away.[/quote]
This is how I handle it, too, although for me substitute “elderly woman” or “woman with stroller” for “especially attractive woman.” And…I don’t really need to watch them walk away.
A lot of things outrage me, and I’m the first to decry the imbalances in our society, but I think it’s important to separate societal issues from personal ones.
I go to a writing group every Friday, which I love. On my way, at about 12:57 every week, I stop at a store for a coffee, which I love. The store is always hopping, mostly with blue collar-looking men. Maybe there’s a plant nearby that breaks at that time. Anyway, I don’t think, in the six months I’ve been stopping at that store once a week, that I’ve ever opened that door for myself, going in or out.
Why worry that the behavior is grounded in millenniums-old assumptions of gender inferiority? These guys are rushing to open the door because their fathers told them it’s the right thing to do and because it’s the end of the work week and I’m a happy-looking female. I can either sniff my disdain or I can give them a sunny smile and say thanks. The former would serve what purpose, in terms of societal change? Whereas the latter has us sharing a pleasant exchange on a Friday afternoon. Sure, I can easily open the door, but why would I want to make someone feel small who tried to do something nice for me? Even if it’s an unwanted compliment, why make someone else’s day less happy?
Also, has anyone but me noticed that sometimes doors are really heavy? Maybe the other feminists don’t have this problem, but occasionally I’ll go to pull a door open and find myself sort of smacking into it when it doesn’t move as easily as I expect it to. Then I have to get myself all braced for a second try. It doesn’t offend me at all when my husband reaches over me and grabs it. (More, it offends me when he mocks me for it. LOL)
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
nephorm wrote:
If anyone is immediately behind me, or within 20 seconds of catching up to me, I will hold the door for him or her. I don’t care who it is.
If you are an especially attractive woman, I will wait an extra 10 or 15 seconds, for the purely selfish goal of being able to watch you walk away.
This is how I handle it, too, although for me substitute “elderly woman” or “woman with stroller” for “especially attractive woman.” And…I don’t really need to watch them walk away.
[/quote]
Oh, I love to watch the elderly women walk away. Some people have disdain for artificial hips, but I say “If I can see them and touch them, they are very real.” (I know, I am likely going to hell)
DB
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
nephorm wrote:
If anyone is immediately behind me, or within 20 seconds of catching up to me, I will hold the door for him or her. I don’t care who it is.
If you are an especially attractive woman, I will wait an extra 10 or 15 seconds, for the purely selfish goal of being able to watch you walk away.
This is how I handle it, too, although for me substitute “elderly woman” or “woman with stroller” for “especially attractive woman.” And…I don’t really need to watch them walk away.
A lot of things outrage me, and I’m the first to decry the imbalances in our society, but I think it’s important to separate societal issues from personal ones.
I go to a writing group every Friday, which I love. On my way, at about 12:57 every week, I stop at a store for a coffee, which I love. The store is always hopping, mostly with blue collar-looking men. Maybe there’s a plant nearby that breaks at that time. Anyway, I don’t think, in the six months I’ve been stopping at that store once a week, that I’ve ever opened that door for myself, going in or out.
Why worry that the behavior is grounded in millenniums-old assumptions of gender inferiority? These guys are rushing to open the door because their fathers told them it’s the right thing to do and because it’s the end of the work week and I’m a happy-looking female. I can either sniff my disdain or I can give them a sunny smile and say thanks. The former would serve what purpose, in terms of societal change? Whereas the latter has us sharing a pleasant exchange on a Friday afternoon. Sure, I can easily open the door, but why would I want to make someone feel small who tried to do something nice for me? Even if it’s an unwanted compliment, why make someone else’s day less happy?
Also, has anyone but me noticed that sometimes doors are really heavy? Maybe the other feminists don’t have this problem, but occasionally I’ll go to pull a door open and find myself sort of smacking into it when it doesn’t move as easily as I expect it to. Then I have to get myself all braced for a second try. It doesn’t offend me at all when my husband reaches over me and grabs it. (More, it offends me when he mocks me for it. LOL)
[/quote]
Great Post
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Do you wear lots of flannel?
I do actually. I happen to think that it looks fantastic with the cargo shorts and combat boots I wear. How did you know? :P[/quote]
aww combat boots? Come’on you need steel toe work boots! They’ll help in kicking those door holding pigs in the balls
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
I just to not want to be treated like a child. I can open doors, I know how to scoot my chair in, and I can carry my own stuff.[/quote]
No one is treating you like a child, they are treating you like a lady.