I think I read somewhere that the plane was deliberately targeted because it had the top 100 AIDs researchers on board it and that Russia wanted to keep the gay population from getting the cure. I’ll try to find it but it was literally the dumbest shit I have ever read. I don’t mind CT but that just takes the cake.
[quote]roybot wrote:
Locating the Black Box would be a start…[/quote]
A satellite photo of the missile launch site would tell you more than the black box.
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
Locating the Black Box would be a start…[/quote]
An actual investigation by non-biased personnel would help as well. As it stands, I would not trust any investigation done by Ukraine, Russia, and/or Separatists.[/quote]
Yeah right. It was shot down in separatist territory where several other aircraft have been shot down recently and a Cossack bragged about shooting down a plane shortly after it happened then deleted his post when the shit hit the fan.
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
Locating the Black Box would be a start…[/quote]
A satellite photo of the missile launch site would tell you more than the black box. [/quote]
A satellite photo of the missile launch site is unnecessary: we already know it was shot down in mid-air by a missile.
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
Locating the Black Box would be a start…[/quote]
A satellite photo of the missile launch site would tell you more than the black box. [/quote]
A satellite photo of the missile launch site is unnecessary: we already know it was shot down in mid-air by a missile. [/quote]
I guess I don’t follow. Isn’t the source of the missile, i.e, who fired it and from where, what is in controversy?
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
Locating the Black Box would be a start…[/quote]
An actual investigation by non-biased personnel would help as well. As it stands, I would not trust any investigation done by Ukraine, Russia, and/or Separatists.[/quote]
Yeah right. It was shot down in separatist territory where several other aircraft have been shot down recently and a Cossack bragged about shooting down a plane shortly after it happened then deleted his post when the shit hit the fan.[/quote]
Anonymous guy posts bullshit on the internet? It must be true then.
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]nrt wrote:
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]Silyak wrote:
My biggest suspicion about this is that someone shot down a plane in order to blame it on someone else. So I’m inclined to be skeptical of a lot of the finger-pointing. [/quote]
Yeah, the Ukrainian government on one hand say they have proof that separatists used a Buk smuggled in from Russia to shoot the plane down. But on the other hand they say the separatists are preventing them from getting in to investigate the incident. On the other hand, the Russian government is denying they had any hardware in Ukraine and they they have proof that it was a Ukrainian Buk used to shoot the plane down, and a random separatist claimed to have shot down a military craft around the time that this flight went down, but everyone agrees that his group did not have any weapons capable of reaching this plane, and no one has presented any of their so-called proof from any side of this and the leaders of all three groups involved would be more than willing to order a strike like this if they thought it would benefit them.[/quote]
Um, actually it looks like there’s an awful lot of evidence, including photographic, against the Russian government and separatists. Unless there’s a major plot twist up ahead, this is on Russia.[/quote]
Not really, none of the tapes or photos released so far have been able to be independently verified. Which is pretty much to be expected, since there hasn’t been hardly any investigation yet. There is virtually no difference between a Russian Buk and a Ukrainian Buk, and the tapes are of people speaking Ukrainian and Russian and no actual evidence that they belong to either side (after all, on anybody can say anything on a recording, there has to be other evidence to verify the claim that they were separatists). It just boils down whatever slant whichever media outlet wants to put on it at this point.
[/quote]
In the abstract, that might be true, but of course this situation is taking place in a context: Russia, in the manner of Germany in the late 30’s, has been arming separatists in the Ukraine, and those separatists have already shot down planes in multiple months. Though it remains strictly possible that the audio/photo evidence is all fake, gawsh, it shore does line up nicely with everything we know about the situation. Furthermore, there’s no evidence at all on the other side, just claims that line up with nothing we know about the situation - nothing, that is, except what the Russian gov’t would want us to think. Add the fact that the Australian and US gov’ts are pointing rather severely at Russia, and we’ve got ample reason to think that the buck stops with Russia, proof pending. Of course, because of the ability of Russia to interfere with the investigation (as it’s already doing), it’s possible we will never have proof (though US intelligence may yet prove capable of proving it).
And poor Malaysian Airlines - this has to be the worst luck in the history of aviation!
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
Locating the Black Box would be a start…[/quote]
A satellite photo of the missile launch site would tell you more than the black box. [/quote]
A satellite photo of the missile launch site is unnecessary: we already know it was shot down in mid-air by a missile. [/quote]
I guess I don’t follow. Isn’t the source of the missile, i.e, who fired it and from where, what is in controversy?
[/quote]
Maybe. Assuming it was a premeditated attack the crash site is where they’re going to find solid evidence of where the missile came from through the distribution of wreckage. I’m not jumping to any conclusions at this point.
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
Locating the Black Box would be a start…[/quote]
An actual investigation by non-biased personnel would help as well. As it stands, I would not trust any investigation done by Ukraine, Russia, and/or Separatists.[/quote]
Yeah right. It was shot down in separatist territory where several other aircraft have been shot down recently and a Cossack bragged about shooting down a plane shortly after it happened then deleted his post when the shit hit the fan.[/quote]
Anonymous guy posts bullshit on the internet? It must be true then.[/quote]
What are you talking about? It was posted by Igor Strelkov, the separatist military commander on Twitter.
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
Locating the Black Box would be a start…[/quote]
An actual investigation by non-biased personnel would help as well. As it stands, I would not trust any investigation done by Ukraine, Russia, and/or Separatists.[/quote]
Yeah right. It was shot down in separatist territory where several other aircraft have been shot down recently and a Cossack bragged about shooting down a plane shortly after it happened then deleted his post when the shit hit the fan.[/quote]
Anonymous guy posts bullshit on the internet? It must be true then.[/quote]
Exactly. Terrorist groups claim credit for stuff they didn’t actually do all the time. As of right now, there is no real evidence to implicate anybody at all.
Now that that has been said, when people start trying to pass off conjecture and hypothetical scenarios as facts in order to compare my homeland to Nazis in a serious manner as happened a couple of posts above I think it is time for me to find a new place to post.
Take your pick
cui bono
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
Locating the Black Box would be a start…[/quote]
An actual investigation by non-biased personnel would help as well. As it stands, I would not trust any investigation done by Ukraine, Russia, and/or Separatists.[/quote]
Yeah right. It was shot down in separatist territory where several other aircraft have been shot down recently and a Cossack bragged about shooting down a plane shortly after it happened then deleted his post when the shit hit the fan.[/quote]
Anonymous guy posts bullshit on the internet? It must be true then.[/quote]
What are you talking about? It was posted by Igor Strelkov, the separatist military commander on Twitter.[/quote]
Do you honestly think a separatist military commander is going to fucking tweet about shooting down a commercial plane?
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
Locating the Black Box would be a start…[/quote]
An actual investigation by non-biased personnel would help as well. As it stands, I would not trust any investigation done by Ukraine, Russia, and/or Separatists.[/quote]
Yeah right. It was shot down in separatist territory where several other aircraft have been shot down recently and a Cossack bragged about shooting down a plane shortly after it happened then deleted his post when the shit hit the fan.[/quote]
Anonymous guy posts bullshit on the internet? It must be true then.[/quote]
What are you talking about? It was posted by Igor Strelkov, the separatist military commander on Twitter.[/quote]
Do you honestly think a separatist military commander is going to fucking tweet about shooting down a commercial plane?
[/quote]
No I don’t. Do you like to make dumb comments without even knowing anything about what you’re commenting on? They thought they’d shot down another Ukrainian military aircraft. When they realised they’d shot down a commercial airliner they removed the tweet. It was subsequently retrieved via google cache.
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
Exactly. Terrorist groups claim credit for stuff they didn’t actually do all the time. As of right now, there is no real evidence to implicate anybody at all.
[/quote]
Ha ha ha! Funny guy.
Ruskies smuggle launcher back to Russia:
[quote]
Now that that has been said, when people start trying to pass off conjecture and hypothetical scenarios as facts in order to compare my homeland to Nazis in a serious manner as happened a couple of posts above I think it is time for me to find a new place to post. [/quote]
How could anyone accuse the Russians of shooting down a commercial airliner?
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
Locating the Black Box would be a start…[/quote]
An actual investigation by non-biased personnel would help as well. As it stands, I would not trust any investigation done by Ukraine, Russia, and/or Separatists.[/quote]
Yeah right. It was shot down in separatist territory where several other aircraft have been shot down recently and a Cossack bragged about shooting down a plane shortly after it happened then deleted his post when the shit hit the fan.[/quote]
Anonymous guy posts bullshit on the internet? It must be true then.[/quote]
What are you talking about? It was posted by Irgo Strelkov, the separatist military commander on Twitter.[/quote]
Do you honestly think a separatist military commander is going to fucking tweet about shooting down a commercial plane?
[/quote]
Maybe, if he didn’t know it was a commercial plane. But who knows at this point.
As an aside, the guy looks like Jim Dangle from Reno 911.
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
It just boils down whatever slant whichever media outlet wants to put on it at this point.
[/quote]
see my post on page 1. The news is there for entertainment, not information.
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
Locating the Black Box would be a start…[/quote]
An actual investigation by non-biased personnel would help as well. As it stands, I would not trust any investigation done by Ukraine, Russia, and/or Separatists.[/quote]
Yeah right. It was shot down in separatist territory where several other aircraft have been shot down recently and a Cossack bragged about shooting down a plane shortly after it happened then deleted his post when the shit hit the fan.[/quote]
Anonymous guy posts bullshit on the internet? It must be true then.[/quote]
Exactly. Terrorist groups claim credit for stuff they didn’t actually do all the time. As of right now, there is no real evidence to implicate anybody at all.
Now that that has been said, when people start trying to pass off conjecture and hypothetical scenarios as facts in order to compare my homeland to Nazis in a serious manner as happened a couple of posts above I think it is time for me to find a new place to post. [/quote]
Sorry if I offended you; certainly wasn’t my intent. And I have enjoyed your posts on life in the USSR.
That said, I don’t think the parallel between Germany/Czechoslovakia or Germany/Poland in the 30’s and Russia/Ukraine today is at all far fetched. No, I don’t think Russia is going to go on to kill six million Jews, and I think it would be wrong to call Russians Nazis, but I do think the specific similarities are illuminating - even crucial - and can reasonably be brought up. Germany used the significant German minorities in smaller, neighbouring countries as a means of undermining and swallowing those countries, step by step (take a chunk, wait 6-12 months… take another, wait a bit more…). Russia is doing the same with the Russian population of the Ukraine. The Crimea was the first step, now the pressure is moving north. (It’s not for no reason that NATO has been doing some muted sabre-rattling WRT the Baltic States, all of which have significant Russian populations.) To say this is not to say that Russians are Nazis.
What is the motive for Russia or Ukraine to shoot down a commercial plane?
[quote]Aggv wrote:
What is the motive for Russia or Ukraine to shoot down a commercial plane? [/quote]
None. This is pretty simple stuff. The Russian separatists have been shooting down Ukrainian military aircraft. They shot down a commercial airliner by mistake thinking it was a Ukrainian military aircraft.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
Locating the Black Box would be a start…[/quote]
An actual investigation by non-biased personnel would help as well. As it stands, I would not trust any investigation done by Ukraine, Russia, and/or Separatists.[/quote]
Yeah right. It was shot down in separatist territory where several other aircraft have been shot down recently and a Cossack bragged about shooting down a plane shortly after it happened then deleted his post when the shit hit the fan.[/quote]
Anonymous guy posts bullshit on the internet? It must be true then.[/quote]
What are you talking about? It was posted by Igor Strelkov, the separatist military commander on Twitter.[/quote]
Do you honestly think a separatist military commander is going to fucking tweet about shooting down a commercial plane?
[/quote]
No I don’t. Do you like to make dumb comments without even knowing anything about what you’re commenting on? They thought they’d shot down another Ukrainian military aircraft. When they realised they’d shot down a commercial airliner they removed the tweet. It was subsequently retrieved via google cache.[/quote]
You believed every word of it.
You referred to the guy as “a Cossack” then acted like me calling him anonymous was ignorance. Meanwhile, you’re googling like your life depended on it in between posts to win an e-argument.