[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
No. And I just know. [/quote]
OK then. But to me at least, if you can’t justify why you feel the need to attack someones religion, then you have NO credibility when talking about the subject. You hate Islam? Fine. Go bash it on a forum where they accept blind hate.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
No. And I just know.
OK then. But to me at least, if you can’t justify why you feel the need to attack someones religion, then you have NO credibility when talking about the subject. You hate Islam? Fine. Go bash it on a forum where they accept blind hate.[/quote]
Oh, I have credibility with quite a few people here. And I’ll be staying.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Oh, I have credibility with quite a few people here. And I’ll be staying. [/quote]
And yet you can’t answer a simple question?
[quote]Makavali wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Oh, I have credibility with quite a few people here. And I’ll be staying.
And yet you can’t answer a simple question?[/quote]
It’s not that I can’t answer a question, it’s that certain of your statements (i.e. “blind” hate, Islamophoboia, homophobia, “bigot”, “redneck”) have convinced me that you’re too far gone with PC religiousity for my time and effort. I could even point you to the spot(s) in the Qur’an where pederasty is smiled upon, but I don’t think it would be worth my while. If I was convinced our dialog was to be mutually beneficial on this thread, I might engage you. After your string of ad hominems, I don’t think I will.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
It’s not that I can’t answer a question, it’s that certain of your statements (i.e. “blind” hate, Islamophoboia, homophobia, “bigot”, “redneck”) have convinced me that you’re too far gone with PC religiousity for my time and effort. I could even point you to the spot(s) in the Qur’an where pederasty is smiled upon, but I don’t think it would be worth my while. If I was convinced our dialog was to be mutually beneficial on this thread, I might engage you. After your string of ad hominems, I don’t think I will. [/quote]
Please, show me these passages where it is supposedly encouraged. My statements are based on the fact that you keep trying to elude the question, and almost every thread or post you make will eventually end up as an Islam-bashing fest.
What do you have against Islam?
[quote]Makavali wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
I’m focused on how you never seem to answer why you love Islam so much.
You’ve never asked. And for the record, I don’t LOVE Islam, but I don’t hate it either. As far as I’m concerned, nearly all religions lead to the same end. [/quote]
That is so ignorant, all religions are not the same. They are considered different for a reason. There are different values and beliefs in the different religions.
[quote]
You on the other hand, go out of your way to make derogatory comments about Islam every chance you get. Care to explain?[/quote]
PRCaldude has been a wealth of information about aspects of Islam that most people are ignorant about. There is a real ugly side to Islam that most people do not know about. Educating people about that ugly side is not being derogatory it is being honest. Given the penchant of the PC brigade to lie to people about Islam, PRCaldude serves a good purpose here.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
That is so ignorant, all religions are not the same. They are considered different for a reason. There are different values and beliefs in the different religions.[/quote]
I did at no stage say they are the same. I said they end up at the same finish line.
So what you’re saying is offset lying with more lying? Why not get rid of the lying altogether? I am happy to learn about other religions, but I don’t tolerate any form of religion bashing from ANYONE. I don’t care if it’s not aimed at me, it’s uncalled for.
True, there is much about Islam that people are blind to, but a lot of Islam bashing seems to occur in non-Islam threads too.
Hell, I probably shouldn’t direct all of this at PRCalDude, but he is one of the people Ive noticed doing this as of late.
[quote]dk44 wrote:
Makavali wrote:
So you’re saying an animal can in fact give consent?
If they like peanut butter they will.[/quote]
LOL! I almost shit myself when I read this.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Sifu wrote:
That is so ignorant, all religions are not the same. They are considered different for a reason. There are different values and beliefs in the different religions.
I did at no stage say they are the same. I said they end up at the same finish line. [/quote]
No they don’t.
[quote]
PRCaldude has been a wealth of information about aspects of Islam that most people are ignorant about. There is a real ugly side to Islam that most people do not know about. Educating people about that ugly side is not being derogatory it is being honest. Given the penchant of the PC brigade to lie to people about Islam, PRCaldude serves a good purpose here.
So what you’re saying is offset lying with more lying? Why not get rid of the lying altogether? I am happy to learn about other religions, but I don’t tolerate any form of religion bashing from ANYONE. I don’t care if it’s not aimed at me, it’s uncalled for. [/quote]
No you accuse PRCaldude of predjudice because he points out aspects of Islam that make you uncomfortable. In reality you are the one who is trying to spread predjudice here by calling PRCaldude a predjudiced redneck.
[quote]
True, there is much about Islam that people are blind to, but a lot of Islam bashing seems to occur in non-Islam threads too.
Hell, I probably shouldn’t direct all of this at PRCalDude, but he is one of the people Ive noticed doing this as of late.[/quote]
Sure there is a certain disdain for Islam, but there is good reason. Many of our most cherished freedoms have been severely compromised because of Islam and the hatred and bigotry it teaches. People have been murdered because of islam. What do you expect people are going to think?
[quote]Sifu wrote:
No they don’t.[/quote]
You mean not everyone ends up meeting the big guy upstairs?
Within the context of an argument, it’s fine. Slipping in insults with every other post goes a bit far.
People have been murdered in the name of nearly all major religions. Freedoms have been compromised because of Christianity too.
ACTUAL Islam doesn’t preach hatred or bigotry. If you want to bring up that sort of thing, kindly reference a specific segment of Islam.
I’ll gladly join a Wahhabi bashing thread! 
[quote]Makavali wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
“Redneck prejudice?” I’m sure the irony of that statement is lost on you.
I’m more focused on how you never seem to answer why you hate Islam so much.[/quote]
I would think it is self evident from his posts. He takes the view that Osama’s brand of Islam is the real Islam and that more moderate versions are not supported by the Koran. I don’t know if he is entirely correct but he has many good points.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
No. And I just know.
OK then. But to me at least, if you can’t justify why you feel the need to attack someones religion, then you have NO credibility when talking about the subject. You hate Islam? Fine. Go bash it on a forum where they accept blind hate.[/quote]
Your mistake is you think Islam, Buddhism, and Protestantism are all the same. They are not. Don’t confuse the average person that happens to be born into a religion with the actual tenets of the religion.
People are generally born the same the world over but all cultures and religions are not equally benign.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
This goes on in Iraq also. [/quote]
Can you provide some evidence of this? I’m well aware it’s imbedded in Pushtun culture in Afghanistan, but it is something that runs counter to Islam, and, as your article noted, was supressed by the puritanical Taliban.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
ACTUAL Islam doesn’t preach hatred or bigotry. If you want to bring up that sort of thing, kindly reference a specific segment of Islam.
I’ll gladly join a Wahhabi bashing thread! :)[/quote]
I don’t have time to find a quote, so maybe someone could help out here, but the Koran talks about the people of the book who have been led astray ie Christians, and Jews, and tells Muslims not to trust them.
There’s probably a lot more, but Muslims will tell you the the quotes were taken out of context, and, or not translated correctly.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
You’re assuming that there is some objective code of values to which we can refer when judging if something is right or wrong. That IS warranted.
Now, religious people use the dictums from Holy Books as their objective code. Some people use a naturalist foundation, by giving a firm definition to what a human being is, and refer to that as a standard. Then there is the modern chic way, where one announces that majority opinion is the standard — if a majority of judges says its okay, then it must be right. If 51% of voters say its right, it must be. Another name for this is ‘politically correct’.
That’s the foundation of your argument. No one is harmed, the judges say its okay, so its alright. Is it? If 49% said it was correct, then it is not. Get out a few more voters, get it up to 51%, and now its moral?
So you’re saying an animal can in fact give consent? Or that a child can give INFORMED consent?
You have an interesting point, however. But if I may, I’ll state that the majority is generally very stupid, and I wouldn’t trust the opinion of the stupid.[/quote]
No. I’m not talking about any sort of consent. I’m simply stating that ‘right or wrong’ has to have something to use as a gauge, to determine what IS right or wrong. If we use opinion/mores/societal norms, then what is right or wrong is a function of what that society says it is.
I assume you pay taxes. Is your consent required? No. Why not? It’s your money, you earned it. Why does anyone have the right to demand a portion of your earnings? Answer: You have to pay because society SAYS you must. If you claim to have a ‘right’ to your money, you are using something other than societal norms to claim that right. Your society says that you are a slave and a free man, at the same time and in the same respect. So be it.
So, if society says that children and animals may be abused, then (according to the modern view of morality) it is perfectly moral to do so. The rights of individuals (or anyone) are subject to voting and majority rule.
[quote]beebuddy wrote:
Headhunter if you keep going you might reach epic troll status. I have to say, you’re coming close already.[/quote]
There are different kinds of trolling; to troll just to make people mad or insult someone is bad, and I have been a little guilty of that in the past. The majority of my ‘trolling’ however is because I like to hash out my ideas — other people cause me to think, and I hopefully inspire a little thought in others. I’m a teacher and part of my function is to examine every thought, no matter how ridiculous, and then encourage thought.
So, in a sense, I thank you for the compliment!
[quote]
Can you provide some evidence of this? I’m well aware it’s imbedded in Pushtun culture in Afghanistan, but it is something that runs counter to Islam, and, as your article noted, was supressed by the puritanical Taliban.[/quote]
This Taliban?
http://link.brightcove.com/services/
link/bcpid271557392/bctid1151557602
http://hotair.com/archives/2007/08/23/
video-how-gay-is-the-taliban/
It goes counter to Islam, huh?
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/16.htm
Ask a soldier about man-love Thursdays. But pederasty is also endemic to Arab culture:
http://mitchormike.blogspot.com/2005
/11/islamabad-queer-as-allah.html
You should read up on what the Ottoman sultan wanted to do with the Count’s sons when he conquered Constantinople in 1453.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
beebuddy wrote:
Headhunter if you keep going you might reach epic troll status. I have to say, you’re coming close already.
There are different kinds of trolling; to troll just to make people mad or insult someone is bad, and I have been a little guilty of that in the past.
The majority of my ‘trolling’ however is because I like to hash out my ideas — other people cause me to think, and I hopefully inspire a little thought in others. I’m a teacher and part of my function is to examine every thought, no matter how ridiculous, and then encourage thought.
So, in a sense, I thank you for the compliment!
[/quote]
I think you’re just fucking with people. If you actually don’t understand that fucking a little boy or girl before they are ready is bad because it HURTS them then you need to go think alone in a corner about what it would feel like to be raped in the ass by a much larger man.
If you don’t understand that beating the shit out of animals is wrong because it HURTS them then you are fucked.
[quote]beebuddy wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
beebuddy wrote:
Headhunter if you keep going you might reach epic troll status. I have to say, you’re coming close already.
There are different kinds of trolling; to troll just to make people mad or insult someone is bad, and I have been a little guilty of that in the past.
The majority of my ‘trolling’ however is because I like to hash out my ideas — other people cause me to think, and I hopefully inspire a little thought in others. I’m a teacher and part of my function is to examine every thought, no matter how ridiculous, and then encourage thought.
So, in a sense, I thank you for the compliment!
I think you’re just fucking with people. If you actually don’t understand that fucking a little boy or girl before they are ready is bad because it HURTS them then you need to go think alone in a corner about what it would feel like to be raped in the ass by a much larger man.
If you don’t understand that beating the shit out of animals is wrong because it HURTS them then you are fucked.
[/quote]
No one is disputing that it hurts them. The subject is if those things are moral.
It used to be considered moral by Hindus to burn widows alive on a funeral pyre. The society said it was moral and that the wife’s pain was irrelevant.
If morality is decided by common acclaim, then the British had no moral authority to interfere — the morality of the Hindus and the British would be equal and relative to their respective societies.
If you lose your home to the IRS, does your discomfort matter? Not in the least. Society decides what is right and wrong.
When you claim that something is wrong, what impels you to make the claim? I’m curious.
You must think your audience is one of those that believes that ancient Hindus weren’t savages. Perhaps you have mistaken us for people who see the nobility in the ritual slaughter performed by the Incan people in praise of their non-existent sun god?
Have you made this mistake?