That’s a solid approach but has nothing to do with my question or this thread. Also you are very likely actually running a small calorie surplus. This is a common tactic for slow lean gains but it doesn’t mean calorie maintenance is a myth. Calorie maintenance is simply the calories that leave your body weight unchanged. It’s definitely a thing and if you want to gain weight consistently over time, you will definitely have to eat a calories surplus, even if it is a small one.
I’ve put more explanation into my thoughts previously, but my $0.02 on this topic:
$0.01: Maintenance calories are actually a range (rather than a discrete number)
$0.02: Set-point theory in bodybuilding is trying to extrapolate/ oversimplify the interaction of multiple variables relevant in a totally different pathology. My point here is spending a few weeks at some number of calories isn’t doing anything magical physiologically, but spending a few weeks finding your new maintenance after a diet is a worthwhile investment practically.
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Bingo!!!
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I’ll be waiting for your Master’s Thesis.
You’ll learn far more about your response to diets by doing them and using your knowledge of feedback. Establish some solid parameters and get to work.
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I started out at 160lbs bulked to 220lbs and dieted to 200lbs at 10% BF all natural and over 40 years old. I’ve got solid parameters, and experience with my bodies feedback already, thanks. I’ll be taking the same approach you mentioned, slower clean gains from here on after I run maintenance for a while to make sure the surplus I do eventually run, all be it small, doesn’t add any unnecessary fat. I posted here to get some feedback on a specific question from someone with expertise on the actual question I asked.
Just because you couldn’t answer my question (or really didn’t even try to but instead gave your own philosophy on a totally unrelated point) doesn’t mean you’ve got to be a small aleck.
I understand making slow changes over time to see how my body responds and the difference between a dirty bulk and slower cleaner gains over the long haul. Done all that, got the T-shirt, which is why I didn’t ask about any of those things.
Don’t be a jerk Nomad just because I responded with facts while you were telling stories and knowledge apparently hurts your feelings.
I have only one thing to offer this forum: My experiences since 1968 are the stories I tell. Further knowledge is of little pragmatic value to me at 76 years of age. I am just an old has been. I always say, “It is better to be a has been than a never was. You weigh my experience against your knowledge and do with it as you like. If you don’t value my experience that is perfectly fine. Many haven’t.
Regrettably, I have seen too much to have my feelings hurt. It just seemed to me that you asked for advice and when you weren’t satisfied with the answers and felt the need to tell us how much you know.
Knowledge about how to make physique goals doesn’t really do much for me. I am the old school of “the proof is in the pudding.” Post a pic and impress me.
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I’ve always been a proponent of the slow meticulous reverse diet approach. Once I hit my target with a cut, I’ll slowly add something like only 25 cal/week. I see it as a way of sort of decelerating the cut. I’ll notice that for a few weeks beyond my greatest deficit I’ll still be leaning out. It just gradually slows down. And I typically can return to my previous maintenance calories and even higher without adding any bodyfat back. I haven’t looked into any hard science to back up the approach, but I’ve always figured that these micro changes to your caloric intake are so small that your body almost “doesn’t even notice” and still thinks it’s the same as the previous week–like you’re tricking it into handling more calories.
So rather than cut phase → maintenance phase → bulk phase, which is a series of discrete jumps that your body has to adjust to, I just do a more continuous gradual climb of micro-adjustments. It’s truly the only approach in everything I’ve tried that I consider borderline magic. “Increase your calories by 800 and don’t gain any bodyfat!” Sounds like a scam, but it’s literally what I manage with every cut now 
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The fact you think you need to bulk suggests you’re not up to date on physiology / research… which is demonstrating one can gain in a deficit and at maintenance. Is it optimal? Remains to be seen, but bulking is unnecessary and not any more productive than maintenance or slightly above.
You’ve mentioned as well, and I totally agree, that the reverse can be true: don’t waste a month of your diet just slowly reducing your daily calories without any impact.
You are way more than that sir. I love reading your thoughts and knowledge based on years of ‘real’ experience and rarely find issue with anything you post. Not every one here is happy though, especially when they don’t get the exact answer to support their own theory. But as you say, that’s perfectly fine, play on.
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Sorry for being rude and disrespectful Nomad. Have a good one!
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So, no.
The biggest factor is always environmental.
It takes two to have a misunderstanding or dispute. I am most at blame.
This is a flaw of mine. The title of your thread has me feeling compelled to comment. While I never “bulked” or “cut” as it is usually used on T-Nation, or in any conversation I have had in the gym, I believe I had good enough genetics to have done that. But I have seen many others seem to be doing little more than spinning their wheels doing the “Bodybuilder’s Yo-Yo diet.”
IMO, the better your genetics, the better your chances of “bulking” and “cutting” with fairly good success. But without good genetics you are chasing a look, yet never seem to be getting much closer.
The bad thing about BB Yo-Yo diet, is that you get continuous positive feedback. (the scale is always moving in the direction you want) You feel like you are actually accomplishing your goal but find yourself dissatisfied with what you see in the mirror at the end of every cycle.
In keeping my bodyfat no more than 15%, I always looked good in the mirror. I could always see major body part separation. And sure, I was gifted with fairly good genetics, so you need to factor that in with my opinion.
IMO, a good rule of thumb for everyone: Your diet strategy should be such that you never get weaker on your major lifts. There is no “walking around” reason to lose bodyfat (because you already look good), so you should not be losing muscle.
There is a place for patience in bodybuilding.
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I do think that there’s value in bulking. I shared my experiences with it bulking from 169-232 over a two year timeframe. My old bodyweight set-point was about 175-180 and now I changed it to 205-210 at about the same Bodyfat or leaner. I didn’t rush the process and get too fat, it was very gradual. I stopped bulking once I got to the point where I went about 2 months without adding any additional bodyweight and I was tired of eating so much food.
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“I’ve read conflicting info from 4 weeks is a sufficient maintenance period to others who say it needs to last as long as the cut”
My understanding is that the “as long as the cut” recommendation is for scenarios where a break is needed between consecutive cut phases.