I eat 1.5lbs of 93% lean ground beef per day. I go WAY over the DV for cholesterol. Is this a bad thing? Should i change beef out with white meats? everywhere i look i see mixed reviews. Thanks!
Cholesterol is a funny thing. For some, diet can modulate it. For others, diet does not really have that big of an impact. Only some blood work to determine how much of an effect it has on you will answer your questions. There is NO single right answer for you. One person’s opinion or even blood work cannot be used as gospel for YOU.
In my humble opinion, getting protein from a variety of sources is optimal anyways. Relying on one source primarily isn’t a good thing (cue potential allergy discussions). For me, variety is beginning to mean not only sources, but “types” of protein such as whole protein sources (animal (beef, chicken, turkey, fish, etc)) meat for example, casein & whey (from protein powders), di/tri-peptides, and free form aminos.
This goes with carbs and fats as well.
Best of luck in your journey to discover what works best for YOU.
Thanks for the response. Going to get bloodwork done asap and hopefully will get answers.
Cholesterol DV is BS in my opinion.
google things like: the cholesterol myth
This is one of the first links that came up: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mercola/the-cholesterol-myth-that_b_676817.html
More important to not overdo it on the carbs (and take your Flameout :))
[quote]grippit wrote:
Cholesterol DV is BS in my opinion.
google things like: the cholesterol myth
This is one of the first links that came up: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mercola/the-cholesterol-myth-that_b_676817.html
More important to not overdo it on the carbs (and take your Flameout :))[/quote]
So true. Almost all cholesterol in your body is made by your body. It is so important to cellular health that nearly every cell can produce its own. It is also a precurser to every hormone. What messes up your cholesterol is transfats, hydrogenated oils, vegetable oils, and a high carb/sugar diet.
[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
[quote]grippit wrote:
Cholesterol DV is BS in my opinion.
google things like: the cholesterol myth
This is one of the first links that came up: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mercola/the-cholesterol-myth-that_b_676817.html
More important to not overdo it on the carbs (and take your Flameout :))[/quote]
So true. Almost all cholesterol in your body is made by your body. It is so important to cellular health that nearly every cell can produce its own. It is also a precurser to every hormone. What messes up your cholesterol is transfats, hydrogenated oils, vegetable oils, and a high carb/sugar diet. [/quote]
Right on! I think a lot of this cholesterol scare is left over from the FAT scare. I eat A LOT of fats and my cholesterol has always been great. It might have been a little over on the LDL a couple of times (I think LDL is the bad?) but my HDL is off the charts good.
Take it for what it’s worth.
But definitely get a variety in your diet.
Also extremely important to eat quality red meat, grass fed if possible, especially if it’s every day. Eating 1.5 pounds of hormone filled (and who knows what else), corn fed beef is not good for overall health and your organs, regardless of cholesterol, fat or macros.
Ecchastang is right on – there have been numerous studies showing that actual dietary cholesterol has minimal to no impact on serum cholesteol levels (with person-to-person variability, as would be expected). On the contrary, saturated fat and trans-fat intake is closely linked to LDL-C levels (the “bad” cholesterol). Replacing SF (and carbs) with MUFAs and PUFAs has been shown to be a strong tool in reducing serum cholesterol levels. For the data driven folks out there, check out these two rather prominent studies:
“Dietary lipids and blood cholesterol: quantitative meta-analysis of metabolic ward studies” by Robert Clarke et al
Results: Replacing 5% of calories as SF with PUFAs or MUFAs reduced TC by 15 mg/dL and 9 mg/dL, respectively.
“Effects of dietary fatty acids and carbohydrates on the ratio of serum total to HDL cholesterol and on serum lipids and apolipoproteins: a meta-analysis of 60 controlled trials” by Ronald Mensink et al
Results: Isoenergentic replacement of CHO with MUFAs or PUFAs reduced LDL cholesterol levels and INCREASED HDL cholesterol levels
These results really point to the TYPE of fat in the diet, and definitely NOT the amount. A low fat diet will most likely reduce HDL-C levels which is less than ideal. As someone with significant family history of CVD and early heart attack these concepts are ones I always abide by, even when bulking.
[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
[quote]grippit wrote:
Cholesterol DV is BS in my opinion.
google things like: the cholesterol myth
This is one of the first links that came up: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mercola/the-cholesterol-myth-that_b_676817.html
More important to not overdo it on the carbs (and take your Flameout :))[/quote]
So true. Almost all cholesterol in your body is made by your body. It is so important to cellular health that nearly every cell can produce its own. It is also a precurser to every hormone. What messes up your cholesterol is transfats, hydrogenated oils, vegetable oils, and a high carb/sugar diet. [/quote]
I would add to this that high blood cholesterol may simply be a sign of damage to blood vessel linings CAUSED by those 4 things you listed. Cholesterol may be incorporated into cell membranes to reinforce them from that damage.
I wont tell someone who eats a lot of sugar and omega 6s to eat lots of saturated fat, but if someone does not eat too much sugar or omega 6s, then the saturated fat/cholesterol content of their diet is not something that should be problematic, unless it is too low.
A lot of this is also genetic. Many people can “get away” with consuming much higher levels of SF and cholesterol without any abberations in their serum levels and/or risk of CVD. Some people have elevated cholesterol levels at baseline, and will need to be much more careful about what they eat in order to maintain and/or reduce their LDL.
CVD isn’t something to mess around with - obviously making gains and putting on muscle is a goal we all have, but poor choices can lead to a lot of problems later on in life if we aren’t careful.
IMO, the government recommendations for food have been more wrong than they have been right.
All fat was bad, 5-6 servings of carbs per day were good, artificial sweeteners are ok, long term aerobic cardio was the pinnacle for health and fitness, the list is nearly endless.
Problem is, I never found a single person who followed that regiment ^ that I envied or admired for physique or athleticism.
I remember having a physiology professor in college, who was a true lard ass. I’m not talking about pudgy, I am saying obese. Not obese according to the BMI, I mean “the guy hasn’t seen his feet in a decade” kind of obese.
Science has it’s place, no doubt about that, but I also look at what the guys who are swole and lean are doing. They may not have a dissertation to defend, they just got their Phd from life experience.
HEADS UP…As a male, your cardiovascular health (or lack there-of) will most likely be the way you DIE! This is not something to mess around with at all. Arterial plaque is irreversible.
I’m going to give you some bullet-points, but read the Great Cholesterol Myth by Jonny Bowden and Stephen Sinatra. They are the original debunkers of cholesterol-phobia.
Diet:
-They recommend 1-2 servings of red meat/week. Bowden says he suspects that more would be okay if it is grass fed.
-Sugar, especially fructose, will oxidize your LDL into pattern B.
-Dietary cholesterol not a big deal
-Try to avoid vegetable oils - omega3:omega6 ratio in your diet should be 1:1 to about 1:4… (this is extremely imbalanced in grain fed red meat BTW)
Blood work:
-Total cholesterol level… doesn’t matter one bit
-LDL level… matters but is not the end-all-be-all.
-LDL pattern B. Very important. Can be measured with a particle size test (not a standard blood test and must be requested)
-Triglycerides. Very important. (part of standard blood test)
-Triglyceride/HDL ratio (both in a standard blood test) - a good test for insulin resistance. A pretty good substitute for particle size test. Less than 3 is pretty good
[quote]Fezzik wrote:
-They recommend 1-2 servings of red meat/week. Bowden says he suspects that more would be okay if it is grass fed.
[/quote]
Kill me now.
Although I do mainly eat grass fed meat.
tweet
[quote]Fezzik wrote:
HEADS UP…As a male, your cardiovascular health (or lack there-of) will most likely be the way you DIE! This is not something to mess around with at all. Arterial plaque is irreversible.
I’m going to give you some bullet-points, but read the Great Cholesterol Myth by Jonny Bowden and Stephen Sinatra. They are the original debunkers of cholesterol-phobia.
Diet:
-They recommend 1-2 servings of red meat/week. Bowden says he suspects that more would be okay if it is grass fed.
-Sugar, especially fructose, will oxidize your LDL into pattern B.
-Dietary cholesterol not a big deal
-Try to avoid vegetable oils - omega3:omega6 ratio in your diet should be 1:1 to about 1:4… (this is extremely imbalanced in grain fed red meat BTW)
Blood work:
-Total cholesterol level… doesn’t matter one bit
-LDL level… matters but is not the end-all-be-all.
-LDL pattern B. Very important. Can be measured with a particle size test (not a standard blood test and must be requested)
-Triglycerides. Very important. (part of standard blood test)
-Triglyceride/HDL ratio (both in a standard blood test) - a good test for insulin resistance. A pretty good substitute for particle size test. Less than 3 is pretty good[/quote]
What do THEY think is the problem with red meat? The omega-6s? (even grain fed is mostly saturated anyway), the saturated fat? (I don’t believe there is any controlled evidence that saturated fat CAUSES CHD), plus you can get bison that has only 6-10 grams of fat per POUND, or is the something in the meat itself?
Maybe saturated longer chain fats do build coronary obstructions after the cellular damage has been done, primarily by omega-6s. Maybe fructose makes longer chain fatty acids more dangerous, but I think that if you limit fructose and PUFA’s to almost none, saturated fat is a non-contributor.
The problem with MOST red meat, like all food these days, is the quality and where it came from. The average ground beef or red meat in the grocery store was not grass fed, it was likely fed corn, grains (making the animals super fat and unhealthy), LOTS of antibiotics and hormones (that other countries outlaw, but we in the U.S. still use), got no exercise, and filled with preservatives. We are all made of what we eat, it goes into our organs, our muscles, our blood, etc., so now the meat you’re eating from that poor cow is filled is all that nasty stuff, bad quality meat that can really take a toll on your insides, many studies have shown the link between bad quality red meat and colon cancer specifically, heart disease, etc.
Organic, grass fed, free range beef is the closest thing we can get to being completely natural, the animals are fed what they’re meant to eat, get exercise and are healthy. So, if you can get the good quality meat, you can probably eat it more consistently. Personally, even with good quality, I prefer 2-3 servings a week, better safe than sorry! Just my opinion.
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
What do THEY think is the problem with red meat? The omega-6s? (even grain fed is mostly saturated anyway), the saturated fat? (I don’t believe there is any controlled evidence that saturated fat CAUSES CHD), plus you can get bison that has only 6-10 grams of fat per POUND, or is the something in the meat itself?
Maybe saturated longer chain fats do build coronary obstructions after the cellular damage has been done, primarily by omega-6s. Maybe fructose makes longer chain fatty acids more dangerous, but I think that if you limit fructose and PUFA’s to almost none, saturated fat is a non-contributor. [/quote]
It’s been a while since I read it, but I think it is the omega-6s and the non-existent CLA and omega 3s. The writers actually advocate FOR saturated fat as a healthy source in general. It will raise LDL cholesterol but it will be the larger pattern-A subtype which is less problematic.
The problem with fructose is that it oxidizes LDL to create LDL pattern B (the smallest type) which is bad stuff. PUFAs from vegetable oils can be bad in excess, but they don’t have to be eliminated. Some PUFAs, like omega3s CLA or GLA, are pretty healthy.
Overall the problem with any of these is imbalance. Fructose only becomes bad in the context of a hypercaloric fattening diet. In a different context, say if you are working out really hard and multiple times per day, fructose is beneficial.
So to say whether 93% lean grain-fed beef will hurt OP, I don’t know. At 1.5 lbs that works out to ~50g of fat from beef per day which doesn’t sound excessive… especially with your daily Flameout.
But if it were me I’d keep an eye on it with blood work.
[quote]Fezzik wrote:
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
What do THEY think is the problem with red meat? The omega-6s? (even grain fed is mostly saturated anyway), the saturated fat? (I don’t believe there is any controlled evidence that saturated fat CAUSES CHD), plus you can get bison that has only 6-10 grams of fat per POUND, or is the something in the meat itself?
Maybe saturated longer chain fats do build coronary obstructions after the cellular damage has been done, primarily by omega-6s. Maybe fructose makes longer chain fatty acids more dangerous, but I think that if you limit fructose and PUFA’s to almost none, saturated fat is a non-contributor. [/quote]
It’s been a while since I read it, but I think it is the omega-6s and the non-existent CLA and omega 3s. The writers actually advocate FOR saturated fat as a healthy source in general. It will raise LDL cholesterol but it will be the larger pattern-A subtype which is less problematic.
The problem with fructose is that it oxidizes LDL to create LDL pattern B (the smallest type) which is bad stuff. PUFAs from vegetable oils can be bad in excess, but they don’t have to be eliminated. Some PUFAs, like omega3s CLA or GLA, are pretty healthy.
Overall the problem with any of these is imbalance. Fructose only becomes bad in the context of a hypercaloric fattening diet. In a different context, say if you are working out really hard and multiple times per day, fructose is beneficial.
So to say whether 93% lean grain-fed beef will hurt OP, I don’t know. At 1.5 lbs that works out to ~50g of fat from beef per day which doesn’t sound excessive… especially with your daily Flameout.
But if it were me I’d keep an eye on it with blood work.[/quote]
Omega-3s are “healthy” in a fairly tight window though. (and only made healthier because they negate some effects of high omega 6s. You could probably be receiving the full health benefit of PUFAs at 3-4 grams of omega 3s if you also have less than 7-10 grams of omega 6th a day.
And I get that fructose is fine to restore liver glycogen which means that for every calorie you burn from exercise you can probably take in half a cal of fructose, (150 grams if you burn 600 or example) but there is still a risk of overspill. Sans liver glycogen depletion there is evidence that about 25 grams of fructose (including half of your sucrose dose) is the level where it may start to have negative impact.
Aside from Cholesterol levels etc. Just based on pure efficiency and optimisation for building muscle, most red meats take anywhere up to 48 hours to completely digest. Have them in the AM and PM so that you get consistent protein being digested into your system. Personally my coach has me on this for my protein sources in each meal: Beef / Chicken / Chicken / Salmon / Chicken / Steak / Egg whites + Shake
Each food has a different amino acid breakdown, the more variety you get the wider spectrum of aminos your body will have giving a greater potential to build muscle, recover, get stronger etc.
Another thing about red meat and omega-6s is that if I am right, even grain fed beef has lower omega 6s than poultry or pork, primarily because beef is a ruminant. Most of its cals come from short chain fatty acids produced from fiber in the hindgut. Add in corn and you mess stuff up, but birds and pigs are eating like corn fed cows all the time.
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
Another thing about red meat and omega-6s is that if I am right, even grain fed beef has lower omega 6s than poultry or pork, primarily because beef is a ruminant. Most of its cals come from short chain fatty acids produced from fiber in the hindgut. Add in corn and you mess stuff up, but birds and pigs are eating like corn fed cows all the time.[/quote]
Does skinless chicken breast actually contain a high amount of omega-6s? There’s not much fat on it as is, it’s almost pure protein. I can’t imagine 8 oz. of skinless chicken breast that I broiled has more omega 6s than grain fed beef.