Earlier this week, I got my MAG-10 Legacy in the mail. And my wife being concerned about my health, asked me to go to our pharmacist and ask him if it would be o.k for me to take. FYI I take 20mg of Celexa a day. So I walk into the drug store and showed him the bottle. Although he did not say anything about the MAG-10 Legacy not being compatable with an ssri (celexa). He said he could not recommend me taking MAG-10 Legacy because he was afraid that one of the components may be another term for caffiene or ephedra, and thats how the suppliment could be dangerous. Keep in mind this was not some old man, he was fairly young. Apparently young and closed minded. Even I know there is no ephedra in MAG-10 Legacy. Hell it's been off the market for some time. I still plan on taking my MAG-10 Legacy. I'm a little concerned though, about people cosulting their Dr. or pharmacist on suppliments that they know nothing about. Here's a paradox, Biotest puts labels on their bottles about consulting a Dr. or pharmacist before taking the product. a little measure known as covering your ass (hey it has to be done). But in order for the healthcare worker to cover their ass, they most likely wont recommend taking something they don't know a lot about. If my pharmacist could have given me a bonafied reason not to take it, I would have taken his advice.
Yeah, well, thats how it goes most of the time.
Unless you get an open minded pharmacist or doctor, who thinks outside the box and educates themselves beyond the required standard information ya get the “I dunno what it is, so don’t do it approach.”
Going one step further, about the only way you’re ever gonna get a good recommendation regarding some more of the hardcore sports supplements is by having a doc who either lives the lifestyle himself (or herself) or at least makes an effort to know about it based on his clients needs.
Typical conflict between traditional medicine and the supplement world though.
What kinda pisses me off is the fact that instead of having the balls and being secure enough to tell you “Hey I really don’t know what these ingredients are, so I’m gonna recommend you take it to someone who does” he basically just tried to make some theoretical conjecture on what it might be, and wasn’t even close.
That’s crap.
To cover their a**, they seem like if they don’t know EVERYTHING about something, they highly recommend not to take it. There are trial lawyers all around waiting to sue someone.
[quote]naturalatlas82 wrote:
To cover their a**, they seem like if they don’t know EVERYTHING about something, they highly recommend not to take it. There are trial lawyers all around waiting to sue someone. [/quote]
I agree totally, I work in the healthcare field (RT). It is essential to cover your a** for the sake of trial lawyers. Although NewDamadge said it best about having the courage to admit that they may not be very knowledgable about a suppliment. Then reffering to me to someone who does.
[quote]NewDamage wrote:
instead of having the balls and being secure enough to tell you “Hey I really don’t know what these ingredients are, so I’m gonna recommend you take it to someone who does” he basically just tried to make some theoretical conjecture on what it might be, and wasn’t even close.
That’s crap.[/quote]
Well, the truth is, who the hell is he going to refer you to? A supplement specialist? They don’t make those. They don’t teach “supplements” in medical school, not to mention how new some of these substances actually are. Unless the doctor is an avid bodybuilder who follows this for his own benefit, chances are extremely slim that there is anyone to be referred to. I remember one of my professors (a doctor) in school going on one day in class about how creatine supplements caused kidney damage. This was a few years ago, but still, it suprised me how anything that is not completely understood is immediately villainized. The bottom line is, the pharmacist didn’t know and covered his own ass. You will probably see the same no matter where you go unless your doctor is a bodybuilder. You should be able to tell that upon the first meeting.
Well, it’s all left up to personal discretion and obviously whether or not they have the resources/time to even begin answering the question. In your case, the pharmacist, in most cases has three solid ways for obtaining information. Internet access on the job, CEC’s, and a journal subscription (e.g., US Pharmacist) which does its’ best to cover various areas. However, it’s important to realize that even with those potential resources, they have to be willing to seek a particular area out themselves. Now, as far as consulting the customer at the window, well, that would require that they had previously researched the particular compounds in supplements you’re asking about and it’s just not possible for them to cover every single one, especially many from Biotest. So, then you’re left asking them to run and find the answer right there and then. Well, one could say that they could use the Internet, but then the issue becomes whether or not they can trust the sources of information. Furthermore, the question of whether or not there may be a potential interaction is rarely stated between a given compound in a supplement and a particular drug, SO, they are then left to look for a mechanism of action, and then, at best, guesstimate if there may be any issues. While they’ve done this, 10,15, maybe even 20 minutes have passed and often times they may be the only pharmacist working…so in the mean time they have 10 people bitching about how they’ve been waiting 30 min for their prescription to be filled.
Now, as far as them referring you to someone who does know about those topics, as pointed out by others, they’re really limited.
My family members are certainly in the minority in terms of having someone to call who can quickly give them information.
My sister will often call while consulting with a customer and then read off each ingredient in a particular fat loss supplement or whatever the case may be and then I’ll let her know what the compounds are, their mechanism(s) of action and whether I think it’s even worth the money. From there she’ll ask me my overall opinion and then from that, issue a statement to the person as to whether she thinks there are any potential interactions.
Oh, the strangest I’ve ever had came from a customer asking my brother a question, or rather a series of bizarre questions. In short it went, “Cy, I have a guy here wanting to know if some of the exogenous testosterone he’s using for HRT will pass out of his semen and in to his wife and absorb through her vagina.” That itself wasn’t too bad of a question, but then the questions became, “also, it sounds like he wants to know how bioavailable glucosamine, flaxseed oil and vitamin C would be if he put them in to her vagina.”
Anyhow, my take home message is that even those that actively seek out information about various compounds in certain dietary supplements are still not going to be able to cover every single thing. Many could at least give you some basic information about glucosamine, vitamins/minerals, flax oil, fish oil, garlic, etc. But there’s just no way to expect someone who’s (in many cases) working 40 or 50 or even 60 hours per week or more and still wants to have a life outside of work, to know about everything.
X and Cy, very good points.
Why not just say “I’m not familiar enough with these to make any recommendation” instead of guessing? Sure its gonna be tough to find the resources right away to identify these compounds, God forbid the doctor say “Hey, let me check out this Biotest website and see if theres any information from the manufacturer themselves” Or “Hey, let me give this number a call, and I’ll get back to you in a few days.”
If this was my doc, I wouldn’t expect him to drop everything and search, but I’d appreciate it if he had the decency to tell me he was too unfamiliar with the ingredients to make any recommendations.
Doesn’t have to be immediate, but if this is steve’s personal physician, I would expect him to either 1) admit to not being familiar enough to recommend one way or the other 2) perhaps offer to gain a little information.
A pharmacist on the other hand, well, no hope there really. They get bombarded with this stuff at the window and theres little chance you’ll get much info outta them in regards to something like MAG-10, just lack of available info.
But I would hope your doctor would at least avoid saying something like “Well one of those things might be another name for ephedra or caffeine.” What?
My whole point was, the doc didn’t know what these compounds were, and threw out a lame “it might be ephedra or caffeine” instead of just saying “I don’t know what these are, bring me some more information on them if possible. Until then, I’d recommend against it.”
On what NewDamage wrote:
Yes, I completely understand you there and it’s a good point. The only thing I would add in terms of them simply saying they don’t know it is that if you stopped at them and then began taking the supplement and as it turns out for example, it raises blood pressure and the medication you’re taking does as well…then let’s say you have a stroke. So from that aspect, you have to respect what they are doing.
But yes, the last thing you said, with them requesting more information and in the mean time, recommending that one not take it, that’s a better approach.
That again, goes back to the individuals personal discretion.