[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I don’t know how you think, but why not go straight to “da man” with your stuff when only he can do anything about it? [/quote]
Do you ask other Christians to pray for you?
If so, why? Why not just go to “da man” with your problems? Other Christians apparently cant do anything for you.
If you dont, well damn, youre an oddity.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Oh, rly? I’d put the burden of proof on you, but that would be unfair to you prove a negative; however, I can put the burden of proof on you to prove where it says not to pray to Mary and the saints in heaven.[/quote]
What the fuck
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Oh, rly? I’d put the burden of proof on you, but that would be unfair to you prove a negative; however, I can put the burden of proof on you to prove where it says not to pray to Mary and the saints in heaven.[/quote]
What the fuck[/quote]
Yes a little confusing.
I’ll make it clearer. I am not going to ask him to prove that the Bible doesn’t say something (proving a negative, like proving unicorns don’t exist), because he would need to post the entire Bible. I am asking him to show me where the Bible says not to do something, so he only needs to post one verse or a section of the Bible, not the whole thing (like proving that the Bible says only the Bible can be used).
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Chris,
I went back to read the eternity you call a post on page 2. Throughout your endless drivel, you mention one thing regarding the Saints… That they can hear our prayers. Awesome! They can HEAR, but can they answer our prayers ? You typed up an Encyclopedia Brittanica worth of material proving my point. Thank you dear brother.
[/quote]
Yes, and that they offer our prayers to God. You left the second part out, that they offer them to God. So they do something about our prayers, they offer them to Jesus. Catholics, Orthodoxes, Greek Orthodoxes, Russian Orthodoxes do not believe that saints themselves have the power to do anything but ask Jesus to do something for us. You sure you read what I call a post on page two, because I addressed this specific point.
I am kind of doubting you read my, what I call, a post that is a Encyclopedia Britannica worth of information because I specifically addressed this topic.
With Jesus being the only mediator to God, the Father – how is that nullified by asking someone to pray for us?
[quote]
I don’t know how you think, but why not go straight to “da man” with your stuff when only he can do anything about it? [/quote]
I guess you didn’t read my Encyclopedia Britannica post, because I explained this specifically. The more righteous you are, the more your prayers are heard. Logically, those in Heaven are more righteous than me and others on earth, therefore when the saints in heaven pray their prayers will be answered more than mine. That is why tradition about Mary says that nothing will be denied to her by Jesus, because she is the most righteous saint and she is the Queen Mother.
I do go to God, if you read what I call a post on page two, I addressed this point. However, another point is that even though I pray with out ceasing. I can’t pray every second of the day, I wouldn’t be able to function academically. However, the saints in heaven can.
And, not sure why you are being crude with the Lord’s name.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Oh, rly? I’d put the burden of proof on you, but that would be unfair to you prove a negative; however, I can put the burden of proof on you to prove where it says not to pray to Mary and the saints in heaven.[/quote]
What the fuck[/quote]
Yes a little confusing.
I’ll make it clearer. I am not going to ask him to prove that the Bible doesn’t say something (proving a negative, like proving unicorns don’t exist), because he would need to post the entire Bible. I am asking him to show me where the Bible says not to do something, so he only needs to post one verse or a section of the Bible, not the whole thing (like proving that the Bible says only the Bible can be used).[/quote]
It’s not confusing, I was saying what the fuck at how much of a retard you can be.
[quote]DixiesFinest wrote:
<<< Take the challenge Tiribulus, on your own time. Think and pray on it. >>>[/quote]Like many catholics you seem a decent and sincere fella. You also are a rather recent entry into the fray here. Don’t take me as being insulting when I say that you underestimate some of us greatly if you really believe we’ve never seen every last bit of this before.
I read that whole page. I am afraid of nothing my friend. I hold none of the doctrinal myths about Rome listed there and have learned everything I know about the church from the church itself.
Allow me also to clarify what I said before. It’s the areas of doctrine that are uniquely RC that are heretical. Not everything ensconced in the “holy see” is either uniquely RC or heretical. I have no problem with infant baptism or, rightly understood, believing that the sacraments are efficacious in dispensing divine grace and power. I also agree with Rome on marriage (with 1 or 2 major nays) almost right down the line and it wouldn’t take much to tip me right into your camp even on contraception.
The point is I don’t reject anything because the RCC teaches it. Roman theology proper is right on and no I don’t believe you have more than one God or that you worship Mary or the saints in the same manner as God himself. My knowledge of your theology did not come from cheap dishonest or ignorant propaganda. I abhor such practices even when perpetrated against a church I also abhor. Which I hasten to add is not the same as viewing it’s every single member as especially evil or even as absolutely or necessarily lost.
Trust me my views here are much more considered than you may have been led to believe is possible for an anti papist such as myself.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]DixiesFinest wrote:
<<< Take the challenge Tiribulus, on your own time. Think and pray on it. >>>[/quote]Like many catholics you seem a decent and sincere fella. You also are a rather recent entry into the fray here. Don’t take me as being insulting when I say that you underestimate some of us greatly if you really believe we’ve never seen every last bit of this before.
I read that whole page. I am afraid of nothing my friend. I hold none of the doctrinal myths about Rome listed there and have learned everything I know about the church from the church itself.
Allow me also to clarify what I said before. It’s the areas of doctrine that are uniquely RC that are heretical. Not everything ensconced in the “holy see” is either uniquely RC or heretical. I have no problem with infant baptism or, rightly understood, believing that the sacraments are efficacious in dispensing divine grace and power. I also agree with Rome on marriage (with 1 or 2 major nays) almost right down the line and it wouldn’t take much to tip me right into your camp even on contraception.
The point is I don’t reject anything because the RCC teaches it. Roman theology proper is right on and no I don’t believe you have more than one God or that you worship Mary or the saints in the same manner as God himself. My knowledge of your theology did not come from cheap dishonest or ignorant propaganda. I abhor such practices even when perpetrated against a church I also abhor. Which I hasten to add is not the same as viewing it’s every single member as especially evil or even as absolutely or necessarily lost.
Trust me my views here are much more considered than you may have been led to believe is possible for an anti papist such as myself. [/quote]
Fair enough, I just saw your age (no insult meant by that), its apparent you have been considering this stuff longer than most people I debate with.
I always offer that page to people because it is surprising (to me at least) how many have NOT considered much of what is written there (you obviously being one who has).
[quote]DixiesFinest wrote:
<<< Fair enough, I just saw your age (no insult meant by that), its apparent you have been considering this stuff longer than most people I debate with.
I always offer that page to people because it is surprising (to me at least) how many have NOT considered much of what is written there (you obviously being one who has). [/quote]And fair enough back at ya. Let me just say that despite what Pat thinks (yes Pat it still bothers me) I will never hate you or any other member of your church. I would save Benedict XVI’s life if the necessity arose.
I do not and cannot accept the RCC as what she claims to be.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Oh, rly? I’d put the burden of proof on you, but that would be unfair to you prove a negative; however, I can put the burden of proof on you to prove where it says not to pray to Mary and the saints in heaven.[/quote]
What the fuck[/quote]
Yes a little confusing.
I’ll make it clearer. I am not going to ask him to prove that the Bible doesn’t say something (proving a negative, like proving unicorns don’t exist), because he would need to post the entire Bible. I am asking him to show me where the Bible says not to do something, so he only needs to post one verse or a section of the Bible, not the whole thing (like proving that the Bible says only the Bible can be used).[/quote]
It’s not confusing, I was saying what the fuck at how much of a retard you can be.[/quote]
Because I ask him to prove his claim, I am a retard?
[quote]DixiesFinest wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I don’t know how you think, but why not go straight to “da man” with your stuff when only he can do anything about it? [/quote]
Do you ask other Christians to pray for you?
If so, why? Why not just go to “da man” with your problems? Other Christians apparently cant do anything for you.
If you dont, well damn, youre an oddity.[/quote]
No, I don’t ask people to pray for me. I am not the kind of person to impose, but if someone chose to pray for me, it would be because they wanted to, not because I asked them to.
Yes I am an oddity.
Chris, who judges this “righteousness” you speak of? The more righteous you are, the more your prayers are heard? Do you have a verse to back this up?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
God answer the prayers of the righteous in particular, James says, “The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects. Elijah was a man of like nature with ourselves and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. Then he prayed again and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth its fruit” (Jas. 5:16-18). Those Christians in Heaven are more righteous since they are perfect in God’s presence than anyone on earth as Hebrew 12:22-23 says, “But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect.” so their prayers are more effective.
[/quote]
Yeah, I posted it in my Encyclopedia Britannica post. You sure you read it in its entirety?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Oh, rly? I’d put the burden of proof on you, but that would be unfair to you prove a negative; however, I can put the burden of proof on you to prove where it says not to pray to Mary and the saints in heaven.[/quote]
What the fuck[/quote]
Yes a little confusing.
I’ll make it clearer. I am not going to ask him to prove that the Bible doesn’t say something (proving a negative, like proving unicorns don’t exist), because he would need to post the entire Bible. I am asking him to show me where the Bible says not to do something, so he only needs to post one verse or a section of the Bible, not the whole thing (like proving that the Bible says only the Bible can be used).[/quote]
It’s not confusing, I was saying what the fuck at how much of a retard you can be.[/quote]
Because I ask him to prove his claim, I am a retard?[/quote]
Fairies exist, and so do Unicorns. They don’t you say? Prove it.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Oh, rly? I’d put the burden of proof on you, but that would be unfair to you prove a negative; however, I can put the burden of proof on you to prove where it says not to pray to Mary and the saints in heaven.[/quote]
What the fuck[/quote]
Yes a little confusing.
I’ll make it clearer. I am not going to ask him to prove that the Bible doesn’t say something (proving a negative, like proving unicorns don’t exist), because he would need to post the entire Bible. I am asking him to show me where the Bible says not to do something, so he only needs to post one verse or a section of the Bible, not the whole thing (like proving that the Bible says only the Bible can be used).[/quote]
It’s not confusing, I was saying what the fuck at how much of a retard you can be.[/quote]
Because I ask him to prove his claim, I am a retard?[/quote]
Fairies exist, and so do Unicorns. They don’t you say? Prove it.[/quote]
No, I am not asking him to prove a negative. I am asking him to show me a verse in the Bible that says not to pray to Saints. It will only take an online Bible and a search function.
If A, then B.
A = Bible has a verse that says praying to saints is wrong.
B = Catholics should not pray to saints.
You are asking me to prove a negative.
So praying to Saints is just made up like transubstantiation. Fuck, at least other Christians have the stones to stick to just the Bible.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
So praying to Saints is just made up like transubstantiation. Fuck, at least other Christians have the stones to stick to just the Bible.[/quote]
You’re like a stoned kid getting into a conversation he knows nothing about. The bible is a development from Christianity, not the otheway around.
Go rant at your hindu mother. I mean, if you really need to belittle, you got easy pickings at home. And hey, at least you actually know something about the religion. Lastly, maybe we’d all benefit if she put you over her knee in response.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
So praying to Saints is just made up like transubstantiation. Fuck, at least other Christians have the stones to stick to just the Bible.[/quote]
Wow, I should pay up for you the $72 it cost to take a unit in logic.
You guys seem to know your stuff so, can someone please explain something to me that has been buggin me for a while?
Why on earth would ANYONE in their right mind believe that Mary was virgin? Seriously, is it because she SAID she was? Was there an ancient gynecologist back then that VERIFIED it? And wasn’t she like… MARRIED when Jesus was born? (did she have sex AFTER he was born? if so, did this not “compromise” her purity in the eyes of some?)
I mean if someone made that claim today, would you believe them? Why should we believe it back then? It seems to me that a SHIT TON of that religion is pinned to (in MY mind) a rather dubious “fact”…
By the way, I think Jesus was a cool guy and don’t take anything away from him - he showed GREAT courage. I would follow his example even if his mom and dad had sex…
I mean, all this stuff is based on shit that NO ONE CAN PROVE, yet many of you argue about it like it happened right in front of you and you witnessed it personally…
Please, ENLIGHTEN me…
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
You guys seem to know your stuff so, can someone please explain something to me that has been buggin me for a while?
Why on earth would ANYONE in their right mind believe that Mary was virgin? Seriously, is it because she SAID she was? Was there an ancient gynecologist back then that VERIFIED it? And wasn’t she like… MARRIED when Jesus was born? (did she have sex AFTER he was born? if so, did this not “compromise” her purity in the eyes of some?)
I mean if someone made that claim today, would you believe them? Why should we believe it back then? It seems to me that a SHIT TON of that religion is pinned to (in MY mind) a rather dubious “fact”…
By the way, I think Jesus was a cool guy and don’t take anything away from him - he showed GREAT courage. I would follow his example even if his mom and dad had sex…
I mean, all this stuff is based on shit that NO ONE CAN PROVE, yet many of you argue about it like it happened right in front of you and you witnessed it personally…
Please, ENLIGHTEN me…[/quote]
How the fuck did we go from Immigration and crime to the Bible …A Fucking-GAIN!
Might as well argue about abortion!