Lowering E2 / Estradiol

Pharma / TRT Testosterone Replacement
1

There may be many posts on this topic and I’m possibly not looking in the right places however, please take a moment to review if you have the time.

Male, 5’ 10", age 50, 165lbs, 0.45ml Cypionate injections (glute) 2 x week. ~3 years. Diet good, no drugs / alcohol, no caffeine, no nicotine, no OTC meds, no meds, highly active daily (lifting, cardio work, boxing / training).

I’ve been experiencing increased anxiety and anger over the past year or so and I’m not absolutely sure whether this is TRT related. There are situational challenges in my life at the moment so those are also variables to consider.

My labs seem ok for Estradiol (still in range but I know that doesn’t really mean sh*t) and Testosterone above range but not by too much as I understand it. Markers and dates below.

I think maybe my Estrogen is too high? There are and have been periods / situations where I’ve felt overly emotional (ie. watching TV) and have cried or felt like crying and that’s not really me. And I’ve felt anger swell at times when I should have been able to stay calm. Not that it’s bad to feel those emotions but they seemed out of place and are affecting my well being.

I read (below) that stinging nettle reduces estrogen as I think this is the cause (not sure, that’s why I’m here asking). Maybe I’m not understanding this correctly or reading it incorrectly.

" The root extract reduces estrogen synthesis and thus the conversion of androgens to estrogens via blocking aromatase (Gansser and Spiteller, 1995)."

…but when I research nettle on this forum, it looks like it might increase estrogen. Anyway, I took it for a week and I’m not sure if I should take it any longer based on the outcome and what I’ve now read here.

If the consensus here is high Estrogen, does anyone have any ideas for natural things to try other than an AI to lower it? I thought I dialed in a long time ago but this year (2024) I’m not so sure. My T levels seem high enough and I don’t want to push any higher. Maybe I need to reduce (?)… ugh, but I don’t take that much, and of course I don’t want to go through a dial in adventure again but if I have to I will. Maybe I’ve never been “dialed” in. Possibly increase injection frequency?

I’ll be doing bloodwork again shortly if that’s of any value but I’ve felt pretty much the same since the last work up (below).

Thank you so much for your insights, experiences, and expertise should you have the time to post a reply.

** Ranges are Lifelabs - Ontario, Canada

Jul 13 2024
Estradiol - 133 pmol / l (Range <162)
Testosterone - 33.2 nmol / l (Range 8.4 - 28.8)
Free Testosterone - 690 pmol / l (Range 179 - 475)

Dec 9 2023
Estradiol - 80 pmol / l (don’t remember why it came down so much)
Testosterone - 39.9 nmol / l
Free Testosterone - 878 pmol / l

Jul 8 2023
Estradiol - 113 pmol / l
Testosterone - 33.1 nmol / l
Free Testosterone - 648 pmol / l

Jan 24 2023
Estradiol - 130 pmol / l
Testosterone - 35.1 nmol / l
Free Testosterone - 738 pmol / l

**Before starting TRT my Estradiol averaged around 74 pmol / l and Testosterone averaged 14 nmol / l, Free T averaged 204 nmol / l.

1 Like
2

We’re not going to be able to tell you much unless you include ranges ( Hi/Low) for your labs.
Is this Doctor prescribed TRT?

3

My error… ranges added to my original post.

Yes, doctor prescribed TRT.

Thank you

4

I think most side effects related to hormone use are mostly related to a disruption of homeostasis. Either by suddenly rising levels or lowering them. You seem to be pretty high on the FT side. but labs seem fairly stable, and I probably would look elsewhere.
Does your doctor Rx an AI for you?
You could also consider pulling some labs on some precursor hormones DHEA, Preg. Etc.

5

your free T seems extremly high? you are injecting 90mg/Tcyp 2x week which is 180mg/week - higher end but normal protocol.
what is your shbg?
is this a e2 sensitive test? anyways your E seems fairly normal, i run close to double that with no issues. I would def not play with AI.
I had weird symptoms with Tcyp (your range dosing), but everything improved going to daily Tprop. anxiety lowered which was an issue for me

6

Your Test is the issue. Not e2.

You’re above physiological ranges and getting amgry. No shit You’re putting too much in.

Likely the emotional bit is the fact you’re pinning twice a week so the phasing means e2 peaks when your test is at its lowest.

Zinc is your best natural aromatase inhibitor… but you dont need that.

I’d move to pinning e3d and a lower overall doseage.

7

Thx. I could check into Preg and DHEA. My GP / doctor just prescribes, the TRT clinic I attended set the script and dialed me in. So no AI unless I engage with the clinic again because my doctor won’t know what to do. And really I don’t want to add an AI if I don’t have to.

8

Thx.

Yes Free T looks high but I was told by the TRT clinic that Total Testosterone / Testosterone was the marker I needed to be focused on. Maybe I should be assuming that this Free T marker could now be an important part of the problem.

Last SHGB measure I did was in August 2022 - 35.2 nmol / l (Range 10 - 70)

thx for the advice on the tprop daily… I think I’m going to reduce my tcyp dosage, move to e2d, and see what happens. I’ve always read that tcyp is better for you than tprop but maybe that’s just a myth. I guess I’ll go there if I have to.

When I look at my estrogen / E2 it’s close to the high end of the range which makes me think it’s too high (for me)… especially versus my pre-TRT numbers. Maybe it’s the T to E ratio that’s more important rather than the number itself… not sure.

I was thinking I would take Estrohalt / DIM to see if I can bring estrogen down but I also don’t want to feel worse from lower estrogen if that’s possible… I mean I know it’s possible at the very low end but if I can get it down to 100 or somewhere close to that maybe that’s going to help.

9

This is what I’m thinking as well… I thought even maybe every 2 days but I should try e3d first and lower the dosage. That said, I’m not sure what that looks like (new lower dosage) and recommendations are welcome if anyone has any… maybe 0.45ml (current) to 0.40ml (new) or possibly lower although I don’t want to feel like a piece of crap (mentally / physically) during this transition if I can avoid it. Also, if I pin on Wednesday morning 8am at the lower dosage, when is the next pin e3d? would it be Saturday morning at the same time and then Tuesday morning at the same time?

It’s a little strange as it’s not a massive dosage (0.45ml) or anything like that and I’m not physically massive (5’10", 165)… I’m in good shape and fairly ripped. I lift 3-4 times a week, cardio and boxing / training fills in the other days and I alternate. Maybe I should take a day off every week… not sure if that matters or not.

10

…just wanted to add that I’m injecting 45mg tcyp 2x per week if that was a misunderstanding or error on my part. So total of 90mg per week. thx

11

yeah that is on the low side. I don’t recall the doc, but for guys with anxiety, magnesium+pregnenolone(100mg) is recommended. i started it and it seems to help. i also used to take DIM but found it worthless. you could experiment with an AI, to see if it makes any diff. but a low dose like 0.125mg Anastrazole 2x a week. i would not expect this to be the issue however.

12

Thank you all who responded and with advice / insights.

Since this morning (Wed) is my regular pin day, I’m going to start today with 0.38ml (vs. 0.45 original) and pin that e3d (mornings) instead of Wed mornings and Sat evenings (per the original TRT clinic protocol). This will lower a 6 week analysis period (Mon - Sun) from a total of 5.40ml to 5.32ml (0.08ml difference - 6wks). I will lower further after 6wks if there are no meaningful / noticeable changes.

I believe this is the right way to look at this but if anyone thinks it’s the wrong way to do the math, or I’m not going low enough or I’m going too low out of the gate, please reach out. For example, If I only drop to 0.40ml (vs 0.45) over a 6 week period (Mon - Sun) I end up taking more than I am now as a total; 5.60ml vs 5.40ml.

Cross my fingers it will reduce some emotional stuff, anger, and anxiety I’ve been experiencing. If I’m still experiencing the same challenges after 5-6 weeks, I may have to re-engage with the TRT clinic as I’m not sure I should go any lower than possibly 0.35ml without dosage guidance. Dialing in sucks or at least that was my original experience.

Comments / insights always welcomed.

13

Have you tried calcium d glutarate for lowering e2?

14

Not yet but it’s a good suggestion. I have some other things to try first including another supplement I purchased. I’m going to move to e3d with a slight reduction in dosage (0.45ml to 0.38ml) over the next few weeks and see if there’s a benefit. I’ll do bloodwork again around Jan 10th and see where I’m at.

thank you

15

So I actually lowered from 0.43ml (not 0.45ml as originally stated) Wednesday mornings and Saturday evenings to 0.40ml e3d. I made an error in the original communication, my bad.

I just had my bloodwork done which was scheduled by the doctor and the result was higher for all three main markers which is not what I was looking for… I want to lower all three as I think everything is too high for TRT… and I can feel it, the anxiety is not good and that’s feeding some situational depression and some fatigue, poor sleep. And it sucks big time. Everything I do is clean from what I put into my body perspective.

So now I have to reduce further and I’m thinking of going down to 0.35ml E3D. I really need to feel meaningful differences if that’s possible and as soon as possible. Is that too much of a drop from 0.40ml or should I stick at 0.38ml which is what I pinned today? All insights / comments / help are welcome (ty for your time).

Jan 10, 2024
Estradiol - 145 pmol / l (Range <162)
Testosterone - 37.2 nmol / l (Range 8.4 - 28.8)
Free Testosterone - 715 pmol / l (Range 179 - 475)

Jul 13 2024
Estradiol - 133 pmol / l (Range <162)
Testosterone - 33.2 nmol / l (Range 8.4 - 28.8)
Free Testosterone - 690 pmol / l (Range 179 - 475)

Dec 9 2023
Estradiol - 80 pmol / l (don’t remember why it came down so much)
Testosterone - 39.9 nmol / l
Free Testosterone - 878 pmol / l

Jul 8 2023
Estradiol - 113 pmol / l
Testosterone - 33.1 nmol / l
Free Testosterone - 648 pmol / l

Jan 24 2023
Estradiol - 130 pmol / l
Testosterone - 35.1 nmol / l
Free Testosterone - 738 pmol / l

16

Those numbers still seem very high for what you’re injecting. Are you sure the testC vial you’re using isn’t actually 200mg /ml?

17

Hi there… this is what I’m using below. For my new protocol Dec 10th I was filling the syringe to the 0.40ml line E3D (ie. Mon, Thur, Sun, etc…) from the original protocol 0.43ml line every Wed morning and Saturday evening.

I think it’s correct so I’m wondering if I’m maybe producing T on my own somehow or the dosage and therefore levels were too high from the beginning. And / or E3D increased frequency and therefore more T in my body at the 0.40ml dosage. Which I believe to be the case now as the calculation over an 8 week period is as follows: old protocol 0.43ml Wed / Sat total 6.88ml, new protocol 0.40ml E3D total 7.2ml. If I stick with my most recent move down to 0.38ml E3D (I’ve only pinned this once) total is 6.84ml and if I move down again to 0.35ml E3D total is 6.30ml. I just don’t know if moving down in large increments (ie. to 0.35ml) is going to cause me more issues than I’m already experiencing before I level out. Possibly there’s no avoiding that and I just have to try and see what happens.

These are seemingly small dosages compared to what most people take (I think?) so I don’t know why my levels are so high or why I seem to be experiencing ongoing fatigue, anxiety, and depression. That said, there’s been situational challenges in my life lately (laid off job, father passed) that are contributors to poor mental health. But putting that aside, the overall the goal is to not be supraphysical any longer which I’ve learned is not where I should be and where I should be is just above the high end of the Total T and Free T ranges. And under the Estradiol range; but not clear as to what the ideal is for Estradiol.

I’ll probably reach out to the men’s clinic where I started this TRT treatment and see if I can get additional guidance there. Although I always check in here because I know there’s lots to be gained from people who’ve already gone through some of this.

Also wondering if maybe I should re-post this as a new topic in this forum to get more eyes on it or if people can see the updates I make. Probably not top of mind ie. everyone’s TRT challenges every day… lol.

IMG_1450
IMG_1450480×640 96.5 KB

18

Weird one. Other than making sure your blood’s drawn at a true trough (ie, right before next jab), and that it’s not a finger prick test, i’m not sure how that amount’s giving you such high levels. Maybe you’re just a hyper responder - i’ve read about people getting average numbers on high amounts, so i guess it can happen the other way round too.

19

Thx. Yes I’ve done all my blood work on the scheduled pin day before I injected.

So at this point I don’t see options other than continuing to lower the dosage in intervals and see what happens. Right now I’m going to stick at 0.38ml E3D until I can get another consult with the men’s clinic. I think that’s the best I can do at this point unless someone educated enough here says it shouldn’t be a problem going down further to 0.35ml E3D. But I guess TRT is so individual that nobody really knows unless you try it yourself.

1 Like