OK The MRIs came back and no structural abnormailties so in regards to finding the problem Im back to sqaure one- The endocrinologists I think is opened to HCG treatment and thyroid- though he did not like the dessicated thyroid approach- I talked to him for over and hour spouting off everything Ive learned from posters and sites I was referred to… but he wants me to end all supps except protien and test again in 3 weeks just to see if levels rise- I hate waiting but the wiser side of me says this is the best thing to do- what do you guys think?
doctors are idiots.
doctors don’t have the live with their decisions (you do).
doctors don’t have to suffer for three more weeks (you do).
you are the customer.
this is your body.
did he give you a good compeling argument of what he hopes three more weeks will show him?
why does he feel dessicated thyroid is inferior (besides that the drug reps that sell him on T4 only told him it is bad boogydewoggety)
have you tested for your Cortisol or Reverse T3?
get what you can from this guy, but then go and try a doctor who knows what they are talking about.
I know, I know I was as upset as I could be to hear this- The wiser side of me agrees with waiting because this is like a last ditch effort do figure out what is long with my pituitary- His first suggestion was waiting two months which was not an option- we got down to three weeks- we will run all the tests again including cortisol-(although he said a 8am blood draw was more accurate than 24hr saliva)red flag–He also said dessicated was hard to regulate-red flag- and was promoting the synthsized shit- To me it seemed he really didnt know and pointed toward my previous keto diet- For the next three weeks he told me to cut out all supps except whey and see what the test come back at-
The anti aging MD ( at his clinic) i talked really knew his stuff- he agreed to write the scrips for the des thy and the HCG- the only draw back his they dont accept insurance-so I have to file myself- they may or may not cover all
My hope is that if I wait… the endo will agree to write the scrips and insurance will cover 100% I know what I want and I will not be swayed by his arguments- I would rather take advice from someone whos been in my position
I dont know if Im makin the right dec. - i know these drugs take time to work and I want to start feeling better now so Im stuck
Ok so its been a while but I finally started treatment. Took me a while to find a doc that had the correct mindset but I did. I wanted to get your guys opinion on the course of treatment. For the low Testosterone im on 500ui 3x a week(mon, wed, fri)-- and for the thyroid im on 1 grain of dessicated thyroid (1 cap a day)- I started this around DEC 20th, I think i can notice a change in overall feeling— I am not tired all the time and I seem to not need as much sleep as I used to. My low body temp has slightly risen. does this sound like a good course of action?
Ive heard with the thyroid meds, you usually start with an intro dose then raise it- on the current plan I am on 1 grain for the nxt 70 days–should I be concerned with increasing the dose
Also… I asked if i needed to take arimadex with the HCG just to be safe and the doc said that prolly would not be neccessary but what do you guys think? My estradiol was pretty low
if you have a doctor who will listen to you, treat your symptoms, and partner with you, then yes you are moving in the right direction.
willing to use HCG = +
prescribing dessicated thyroid = +
HCG only treatment works for some but not all. 500iu is a strong dose (the maximum for most before Lydeg cell desensitization becomes an issue).
yes most start at 1 grain (which =60mg right?) then increase every 30 days or so until hyperthyroid symptoms appear and then back off a level or two.
if you don’t have high estrogen symptoms or a blood test showing high estradiol, why would you want to start Arimidex?
check out stopthethyroidmadness for great thyroid information. you also really need to test your cortisol levels if you are taking thyroid meds.
what is your waking body temp?
what is your average daily temp?
what is your average daily temp day to day for a week?
Thnx for the qk rply
I havnt takn body temp in a while but I will start 2morrow-- The previous Doc ran cortisol blood test (not saliva) and he said that my levels were fine-I will check and see what the test numbers are exactly
Yeah it is 60mg for the thy
I mentioned arimidex because I wanted to make sure that I would not end up with an estro imbalance but it was prolly not worth worrying about.
Just to be on the safe side, since my hcg dose is high, are there any early signs of rising est levels that I can watch out for?
Also… how long would it take for my test levels to rise? (The goal being 800 to 1000L from 200L)
Is that just something that depends on how my body reacts to the hcg treatment?
[quote]Chaos6060 wrote:
Thnx for the qk rply
[/quote]
I just happen to check the board out after about a 30-day absence.
ahhhh!!! doctors saying “things are fine” is like fingernails down a chalkboard. NEVER just accept that from a doctor. Get the results in your own hands and double check everything.
8am results <15 indicate a possible problem.
fluctuating body temps within a day or from day to day indicate a possible problem.
questions are always good, and just because I have opinion on the matter doesn’t mean I am right.
[quote]Just to be on the safe side, since my hcg dose is high, are there any early signs of rising est levels that I can watch out for?
Also… how long would it take for my test levels to rise? (The goal being 800 to 1000L from 200L)
Is that just something that depends on how my body reacts to the hcg treatment?[/quote]
Not sure about those.
high estrogen = low libido, moody, uncontrollable emotions (i.e. - you find yourself crying about stupid things that never use to bother you.), water gain, swelling ankles, etc.
That hCG dose is high. From what we see here, E2 production in the testes will be high if the testes are LH/hCG responsive. Note that anastrozole/Arimidex can control peripheral T–>E2 but cannot control T–>E2 within the testes. We have seen high anastrozole doses not get the job done. Otherwise driving down peripheral T–>E2 to low levels may create unwanted effects in the brain; which is really not understood.
Why? Because T concentrations inside the testes can be up to 80 times higher than serum levels. If you know how a competitive AI works, you will understand.
Im am still taking temps. for now looks like average waking is around 95 and afternoon is around 97…It is the winter and it been pretty damn cold for the past couple weeks so that may effect my b temp. Got the tesest from my doc concerning the cortisol-- we did a baseline (8am) then 30 min and 60 min cortisol stim test. here is the results
Baseline CORT 19.21 (4.30-22.40) ug/dl
CORT stim 30 min 23.70 " "
CORT stim 60 min 24.18 " "
you said <15 could be a problem- how would I know for sure? saliva test?
If there is a problem with CORT what could that cause?
On the other hand I feel fine- better mood outlook more energy ect. That could just be the hcg doing its job- but it is hard to tell if it is the hcg or the thy creating the better mood- I am still on 1 grain and my px has me to stay on 1 grain for 70 days- do you guys think I should inquire about increasing my thy dose until I feel hyperthy symptoms? 2 grains maybe (px is 70 1 grain caps 65mg)
another thing i noticed is shortly after beginning the thy meds my hands and feet coldness went away- since then the cold hands and feet r back (could be the weather)
(CORT TEST RESULTS ON PREVIOUS PAGE)
baseline cortisol results seem normal, but stim test does not.
per the wikipedia [quote]
Cortisol stimulation
In healthy individuals, the cortisol level should double from a baseline of 20-30 ug/dl within 60 minutes. For example, if the serum cortisol level was 25 ug/dl before the stimulation, it should reach at least 50 ug/dl.
Interpretation for primary adrenal insufficiency and Addison’s disease
The baseline cortisol level in people with adrenal insufficiency is usually near 15 ug/dl. An ACTH stimulation test that raises the cortisol concentration to 20 ug/dl would support the diagnosis of primary adrenal insufficiency.
[/quote]
what did your doc say?
a normal health body should be able to cope with changing weather conditions (assuming proper outerwear) without impacting core body temperature. If your body temp never rises above 98.0 then you still probably have a thyroid problem.
70 days seems way to long to stay on that low of a dose especially if your body temp is still that low. Stopthethyroidmadness site recommends one to two weeks between increases. doctors don’t have to suffer with the consequences of their decisions or live with hypo-symptoms for 2+ months while they inch up you dosage.
OK guys so guess what. Today I got back my initial lab results to see where my trt was going. NOT ONE IMPROVEMENT. The intitial trt plan was 1500mcgs per week with 1 grain thy. The results…test did not rise at all and tsh went up .1- NOW we are switching to t gel and 600 mcgs of HCG with 2 grains thy. LOL i been thinking the initial trt was woring because I had been experiencing beter moods. Me n the doc believe this is because the HCG I got is compounded with b12. SO i tried to continue dieting (obviously not knowing it was futile) eating strict and clean as shit and 90 mins fasted morning cardio and nothing. I am just thankful to finally get something I know will improve my situation- also doc wanted me to see a urologists to test for viable sperm- freeze if necessary. I aksed him why not cypionate and he though the gel would be better- no big needles and fluctuation of test levels, what u guys think?
Test-Cypionate is very reliable, little pain, and fluctuation is minimal if you’re injecting twice a week. The gel is unreliable in my opinion - it’s hard to tell how much you will absorb through your skin, how much rubs off into clothing, how much is diluted or removed through sweating, etc. The shot is perfectly reliable - you know how much you’re injecting so you exactly how much is going into your body.
After Reading through forums I agree, I emailed doc tonight to see if a change in scrip could be made even though he already sent the t gel order to the compound
SO… I did talk to the compounding pharm, I was concernd that this t gel would not be as effective as the inj cyp and he said that this gel is more effective than inj cyp. He said that it is a natural form of t (unlike that in androgel or testim). He cont. to say that this gel as penatration agents helping to absorb into the skin better. I aksed him about the differenc between inj cyp and this gel and he said that a larger portion of the t in cyp is more likely to be rendered useless with sbgh due to the massive introduction ( shooting 200 mg of test and forcing the body to deal with it all at once) than the t in the compunded gel, so the gel would end up giving me more free t thru a more even release (YAY). He also said that this form of t gel has a better release than inj cyp and does not have the drops in level that most injectors exp.
What do you guys think about these comments on the tgel vs the inj cyp\
BTW he also said most trts are now switching away from inj cyp to gels- and if in the case of a skin complication they would do test cyp sub q 3 x per week in stead of the old im 2x per week.
Your doctor is an idiot…
lol care to expound on that?
He told you that the “T” is somehow MORE NATURAL in one form versus the other…bullshit…once the esters and delivery mechanism are stripped away, it is all the same stuff
He discredited injections based on injecting 200 mg at a time, which is a retarded, outdated protocol…even IF you caused more T to be bound to SHBG by injecting that much (which I’m not even sure about) it is irrelevant because you would be dosing 2-3 times per week at a much smaller dosage…basically he just made up something based on ignorance and potential half truth than dealing with concerns directly…
You may be partly to blame in not explaining what you wanted to do, injection wise…
mmm that is a good point. I also have a low thy which I have read can decrease absorption through he skin even more. SO you think that this compounded t gel will not be as effective as I want it to be? I already have the t gel, do you think it is a big enough problem to call my doc and get him to change scrips to inj?