Louisiana To Privatize Public Schools

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
The inventors of formal geometry were polytheists… does that mean polytheism caused the invention of formal geometry, or even more absurdly, that ONLY polytheists could invent it?[/quote]

You understand the difference between develop and invent? My meme does not say invent.[/quote]

You don’t seem to understand. No single person or group invented the scientific method. It was developed over thousands of years, across several different societies by several different people belonging to several different religions.

99% of the heavy lifting was already done before 1170 ACE. Your pic is a gross misrepresentation of the truth.
[/quote]

Such is the case with any discipline but the fact remains that Grosseteste formalized it and until he did, it did not formally exist in that understanding. The pieces were there, but it means a whole lot more as an assemble formal methodology.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

I am a little split on the issue, mainly because my personal experience with private to public has been the opposite of what one would think. My experience with the public schools in my area have been top notch. Where as when I had my kids in the private school, I was very disappointed to say the least.
[/quote]

Can you go into more detail if you don’t mind?[/quote]

The schools where I live happen to be the best in the state. The private school we had them in had a horrible, lazy, administration who was behind on everything, especially math. In essence they didn’t really believe in teaching, they believed in shoving packets of paper in front of the kids all day everyday and that’s about it. They didn’t really follow the curriculum they were supposed to, they used the same shit every year for the last 20 years. The administration would ‘yes’ you to death and then do nothing. It was pathetic. That’s one school though, that’s not all of them. They had a pretty bad reputation until they finally ousted the principle… Now it seems they are rebounding, but the schools near me have been great so I have no need to revisit the private school.

The truth is, the community really does make the school. The comminity around here is forward thinking and involved and so are the schools. Funding is one thing, but you cannot fund a school to be awesome when the community it serves doesn’t value it and doesn’t give a shit.

[quote]pat wrote:

The schools where I live happen to be the best in the state.[/quote]

Pat, where in GA is that? Georgia is on our radar for possible relocation.

Feel free to PM if you don’t want to advertise your location.

thx

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

I am a little split on the issue, mainly because my personal experience with private to public has been the opposite of what one would think. My experience with the public schools in my area have been top notch. Where as when I had my kids in the private school, I was very disappointed to say the least.
[/quote]

Can you go into more detail if you don’t mind?[/quote]

The schools where I live happen to be the best in the state. The private school we had them in had a horrible, lazy, administration who was behind on everything, especially math. In essence they didn’t really believe in teaching, they believed in shoving packets of paper in front of the kids all day everyday and that’s about it. They didn’t really follow the curriculum they were supposed to, they used the same shit every year for the last 20 years. The administration would ‘yes’ you to death and then do nothing. It was pathetic. That’s one school though, that’s not all of them. They had a pretty bad reputation until they finally ousted the principle… Now it seems they are rebounding, but the schools near me have been great so I have no need to revisit the private school.

The truth is, the community really does make the school. The comminity around here is forward thinking and involved and so are the schools. Funding is one thing, but you cannot fund a school to be awesome when the community it serves doesn’t value it and doesn’t give a shit. [/quote]

It’s the same thing where I am at.

You have good districts and schools and shitty ones. We moved into this school district with the goal of our kids getting a good education from a forward thinking district that has a lot of the parents are very involved in it.

As an example my ex had our son in a “charter” school that was supposedly doing all these great things for him. Well we had a nice custody battle brought on by her and now he goes to the schools by my house. Funny thing that “Charter” school actually had him 3-4 grade levels behind! They were just penciling in his grades and moving him along so they could keep getting their check.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
What teachers really want to tell parents

[/quote]

Yep. Worst professional job I can imagine. I have 3 kids and I actively discourage them from my profession.

It worked – one is headed for ‘jet jockey’ school in Pensacola, the middle one wants to do Mech Eng at MIT, and the youngest (in middle school) want to own a restaurant. LOL![/quote]

I agree with HH on something… There must be a rip in the space-time continuum!

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
While I do not think this is going to work out very well for the taxpayers or the students, it is nice to see someone at least trying to seriously reform the education system. I am not too sure how I feel about taxpayer dollars being used to send students to private education centers. I know that I am not a fan of using taxpayer dollars to pay for tuition at religious institutions, but the more I think about it the less I like the idea of using tax dollars to send students to any kind of private schools. One of the main reasons that private schools exist is because the people who run them do not want to follow the standard educational guidelines, which is fine as far as it goes, but by doing so they forfeit government funding for their school. I think this should include allowing using taxpayer dollars to pay for tuition at those schools. If a parent would rather send their kids to a private school, fine. I am even okay with exempting them from paying taxes that would go towards paying for public schools, but if they can not afford it then it is not the responsibility of the community to send their kids to a private school.

Another major problem I have with this is the lack of a standard curriculum in private schools as well as the quality of the private schools who are willing to accept the most students. They tend to be the smaller and understaffed schools who are not any better then or even worse then public schools. The top schools are doing just fine and the $8000 or so dollars they would receive from the state would not even cover the cost of tuition there, so they lose money by accepting voucher students. Also, the schools that charge less then the $8000 or so that would normally go to paying for public schools have the right, according to this law, to claim up to that amount in unspecified fees. How much do you guys want to bet that nearly all of the schools are going to charge that amount?

Also, think about it financially. The article said that those who make up to $60,000 per year will get vouchers for full tuition and cost up to the $8,000 or so that would have gone to paying for a public education. The money that is used sending those kids to private school is taken from the funding for public schools. People who earn $60,000 or less do not pay $8,000 in education taxes. I make over twice that and I barely pay more then $10,000 per year. This means that a lot of people who pay less in taxes will take out more then they put in, meaning that either parents in income ranges higher then $60,000 will not get vouchers for $8,000, probably not even the amount they paid in taxes, and will have to pay out of pocket for private schools causing them to spend even more on education, or they will have to send their kids to the public schools who have lost most of their funding to sending low income students to private schools. I just do not see this working out very well.[/quote]

Accredited schools do have to follow a minimum standard for curriculum, so I really don’t see that as a worry. And this is Louisiana their school systems have been the asshole of school systems for decades. If this were going to be tried anywhere, Louisiana or Mississippi was the place to do it…[/quote]

Good to know and so true about it being the right place to do such an experiment. I heard horror stories about public education there when I went to Louisiana Tech University.

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
What teachers really want to tell parents

[/quote]

Yep. Worst professional job I can imagine. I have 3 kids and I actively discourage them from my profession.

It worked – one is headed for ‘jet jockey’ school in Pensacola, the middle one wants to do Mech Eng at MIT, and the youngest (in middle school) want to own a restaurant. LOL![/quote]

I agree with HH on something… There must be a rip in the space-time continuum![/quote]

It is truly horrible, especially in the inner-cities. Many of the kids have Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and are barely functional.

I know a woman who taught in Cleveland, in the ghetto. She had death threats constantly. One young man would masturbate in the back of the room and then come up to her desk to get a tissue to clean up (at least he cleaned it up). The girls who weren’t savages or in gangs were the only ones who ever paid any attention whatsoever.

One day at lunchtime she just got in her car and drove away, left teaching for good. Can we blame her?

[quote]kamui wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]LittleLifter wrote:
In other words as the poster above alluded to, they teach science, not creationism.[/quote]

K.[/quote]

Umm… the scientific method was developed over thousands of years beginning in ancient Greece. Think Aristotle.

Christianity was not responsible for modern science.[/quote]

Except that without the catholic church we would know nothing about Aristotle.
The knowledge,the texts, and the language itself has been preserved by catholics monks and would have been lost without them.
Actually, all this knowledge was almost forgotten circa 800 CE.
The Church saved it, inherited it and expanded on it.

You (and I) can think whatever you want about the Catholic Church, the above is still an historical fact.
[/quote]

I really liked how they burned Bruno at the stake for having the gall to disagree with their “science”.

jnd

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
What teachers really want to tell parents

[/quote]

Yep. Worst professional job I can imagine. I have 3 kids and I actively discourage them from my profession.

It worked – one is headed for ‘jet jockey’ school in Pensacola, the middle one wants to do Mech Eng at MIT, and the youngest (in middle school) want to own a restaurant. LOL![/quote]

I agree with HH on something… There must be a rip in the space-time continuum![/quote]

It is truly horrible, especially in the inner-cities. Many of the kids have Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and are barely functional.

I know a woman who taught in Cleveland, in the ghetto. She had death threats constantly. One young man would masturbate in the back of the room and then come up to her desk to get a tissue to clean up (at least he cleaned it up). The girls who weren’t savages or in gangs were the only ones who ever paid any attention whatsoever.

One day at lunchtime she just got in her car and drove away, left teaching for good. Can we blame her?
[/quote]

I know a little about the state of education because my mother works at what was once a decent public school. Now due to crumby administration and the area becoming a lower socio-economic bracket the place has gone downhill very fast.

The administration told her for one of her students who wasn’t putting any work in at all and just being a lazy shit to give the student one simple assignment and determine her entire grade based on that simple assignment. There aren’t any good alternatives for punishment. Administration never backs up the teachers. It’s pretty terrible and only getting worse.

Many of the people in the graduate program I was in were former teachers fed up with the crap. It’s no wonder too. Who’s going to put up with that crap when they go into a technical field or if they have a liberal arts degree go into social work? Also, the government in Texas is severely starving funds from schools and everyone points the finger at the teachers. It’s madness.

Just to add to the anecdotal pot:

We have outrageously good secular schools here, generally speaking, compared to American ones. I see fifth graders doing algebra and some chemistry and other hard science, and understanding it, and the math and science get very complex in many (not all) high schools. There’s a bit of a different system here, but a typical secular school education here will put that of a typical American one to absolute shame.

All that said, I’ll STILL be sending my boys to private schools when they reach that age (or, hopefully I’ll own my own private school at that point, that’s the plan, anyway), because the private schools here are that much better, far better, overall, than the secular schools.

English education at almost ALL secular schools (but not private) SUUUUUUUUCKS like you would just not believe. Which I don’t complain about too much, because it keeps me in business. (^^)b

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
The inventors of formal geometry were polytheists… does that mean polytheism caused the invention of formal geometry, or even more absurdly, that ONLY polytheists could invent it?[/quote]

You understand the difference between develop and invent? My meme does not say invent.[/quote]

You don’t seem to understand. [/quote]

O’rly?

I guess you don’t either, since I’ve still yet to say anyone invented the scientific method. YOU keep saying invented. So again, do you understand the difference between develop and invent?

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
For the record, I grew up in a smaller town (think regional schools) and the kids that went to the Catholic middle school did better in school than those of us that went to the public school. (Except of me of course ;))

The only differences from what I recall, in subject matter, is they had theoligy classes where they learned religious topics and I didn’t.

I have had “non-religious” family send their kids to the Catholic school, because kids perform better there and get a better education. (Not a single admin there gave two shits about the religious belief of the kids either to be honest. They preferred people believe, but didn’t shun anyone from an education.)

We also had our daughter at a Catholic hospital because the level of care there is far and above the non church affiliated hospitals in our immediate area. And neither my wife or I are particularly religious, nor did they care. (I believe in SOMETHING, just haven’t found a “system” I feel is right. So… I’m a heathen… haha)

As for the OP, I don’t feel I know enough to make an intelligent comment, so sorry for adding to the hijack…

EDIT: to v two[/quote]

No thank you for the input. Much appreciated.

[quote]jnd wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]LittleLifter wrote:
In other words as the poster above alluded to, they teach science, not creationism.[/quote]

K.[/quote]

Umm… the scientific method was developed over thousands of years beginning in ancient Greece. Think Aristotle.

Christianity was not responsible for modern science.[/quote]

Except that without the catholic church we would know nothing about Aristotle.
The knowledge,the texts, and the language itself has been preserved by catholics monks and would have been lost without them.
Actually, all this knowledge was almost forgotten circa 800 CE.
The Church saved it, inherited it and expanded on it.

You (and I) can think whatever you want about the Catholic Church, the above is still an historical fact.
[/quote]

I really liked how they burned Bruno at the stake for having the gall to disagree with their “science”.

jnd[/quote]

Yes, maybe they shouldn’t have burned him. However, he didn’t merely disagree with our “science.”

Loch Ness Monster used to debunk evolution in state-funded school

[quote]doogie wrote:

Loch Ness Monster used to debunk evolution in state-funded school[/quote]

NOOOOOOOOO!!!

American kids aren’t getting educated because their parents lack discipline. Read Tiger Mom.

School and education should be the primary focus in a person’s youth.

Hello,

this is certainly an interesting discussion. For what its worth, I considered teaching. I manage the finances for a Special Ed department (in excess of 100 million dollars) in a large urban public school. Suffice to say, I have also learned alot about Special Education (which is usually a nebulous issue to most) in the process, as well as alot about public school finances and issues.

There is no doubt that while cost per students has risen, returns to educational achievement have not. This is an issue as complex and interwoven as the economy itself and a very important one to me.

There are good and bad schools within our district, a myriad of opportunities for interesting learning, as well as those for malfeasance. I can tell you about kids getting a great hands on science curriculum or special ed services because of the scale of resources we have, and I can tell you about gang violence, beaurocracy, crack addicted parents, kids succeeding despite the odds, wonderful leaders and educators, and terrible ones.

Special education in large districts, transportation costs, capital and infrastructure, and rising benefit costs are the main causes of budget difficulties. Many of these in special ed are rooted in legalities such as inclusion (which in my opinion is a good idea, but a failed one). The litigious nature of society also increases the cost of education when the district loses in court. Kids are then sent to expensive schools at a cost far exceeding that of education in district. Sometimes this is beneficial for the child, sometimes not needed.

I have seen alot of waste as well, and easily trimmed millions of dollars from the Spec Ed budget with very little impact on the qualitative aspect of education. It takes ingenuity and balls to do this in a status quo environment such as this.

Charter schools and vouchers are one solution, but they are not a be all end all. Their is nepotism and misuse of funds in this as well, all while diverting resources (now un-reimbursed) to these institutions away from public ed. Alot of times this leaves public schools with special needs populations only while normal ed kids go to the private schools. This exacerbates costs. I can tell you about charter schools closing because they were counting kids that were fry cooks at mcdonalds as “career training”

The socio-economic issues in an urban environment also stimulate the debate as to who knows best, the parents or the educators. Alot of parents are very uneducated and drug addicted and not fit for deciding things for a child. And I could say the opposite elsewhere, but the attitude towards education in this country is alot different than when immigrants initially came here en masse with a strong sense of the value in education.

I think its a bold initiative for LA and I hope it succeeds with the intended result but we cant look at every option with rose tinted glasses. I think alot of charter schools that follow a teach for america/ Kipp model are able to achieve better results because of the increased flexibility and lack of the same cost drivers I have previously mentioned.

Pay for performance has its merits and drawbacks, as does standardized testing. I am of the opinion that critical thinking skills are sorely lacking in most public school curriculum however. I think public/private/magnet and charter schools can all operate together and ideally cooperate…though the funding would be a highly contentious arena.

I could go on and on but I think thats enough for now.

[quote]666Rich wrote:
Pay for performance has its merits and drawbacks, as does standardized testing. I am of the opinion that critical thinking skills are sorely lacking in most public school curriculum however. [/quote]

Now what good can come from teaching the tax-cows to think?

Rep. Valarie Hodges, R-Watson, says she had no idea that Gov. Bobby Jindal?s overhaul of the state?s educational system might mean taxpayer support of Muslim schools.
?I actually support funding for teaching the fundamentals of America?s Founding Fathers? religion, which is Christianity, in public schools or private schools,? the District 64 Representative said Monday.
?
?Unfortunately it will not be limited to the Founders? religion,? Hodges said. ?We need to insure that it does not open the door to fund radical Islam schools. There are a thousand Muslim schools that have sprung up recently. I do not support using public funds for teaching Islam anywhere here in Louisiana.?

Wait, we?re teaching the ?Founders? religion?? I can?t wait to see those Deistic schools popping up everywhere?

Some legislators aren?t comfortable funding Muslim schools. What?s to be done? How about not establishing these programs in the first place? Let Muslims fund Muslim schools. Let Catholics fund Catholics ones. Let fundamentalist Protestants pay for the conservative Christian academies and so on.

UNFUCKING BELIEVABLE

So no one wants to talk about this after the comments made by Valarie Hodges?

Question: Do you still want this to happen now that radical islamic schools are popping up?