What do you guys think should have happened? The pres. snaps his fingers and the disaster management fairies appear and make nicey nice? It’s a freakin disaster for God’s sake. Mobilizing thousands of people and all of the necessary resources doesn’t just happen immediately. Comparing it to 9/11 isn’t entirely fair either. In that event, the damage was confined to a few blocks, not a couple hundred square miles.
As far as the put up or shut up tough talk crowd goes, Are you there yet? What are you doing on an internet chat thread? You could be on your way there.
[quote]mindeffer01 wrote:
What do you guys think should have happened? The pres. snaps his fingers and the disaster management fairies appear and make nicey nice? It’s a freakin disaster for God’s sake. Mobilizing thousands of people and all of the necessary resources doesn’t just happen immediately. Comparing it to 9/11 isn’t entirely fair either. In that event, the damage was confined to a few blocks, not a couple hundred square miles.
As far as the put up or shut up tough talk crowd goes, Are you there yet? What are you doing on an internet chat thread? You could be on your way there. [/quote]
Have you been watching the news lately? They still don’t have the troops available in the numbers needed. How could that be if there was a plan in place?
Honestly, let’s look at this for a second. What is the worse case scenario involving “terrorists”? Biological warfare? An entire city becomes inhabitable? I mean, I thought of situations like that and I am sure others did as well. That is why some had gas masks ready just in case…so where are the troops?
The answer? We are spread too thin and have been for quite a while. You could look back through all of those political threads and many have said this for months, if not years, now. If we were attacked by ANY outside force right now, we would get our asses handed to us. If we can’t even mobilize and get men into an area like NO when needed in less than 72 hours, how the hell could we be prepared for a real attack?
We wouldn’t be. You can try to cover it up, down play it, and act as if there was nothing more we could do all you want to. If anything, we just got shown how ready we really are to play any type of game on our own soil. And that sucks.
I apologize in advance for this rant and I know I’m not doing anyone any good by writing this but maybe it will at least make me feel better.
Babies are dying of dehydration. People are starving and sick and desperate. Firsthand reports say that most of the people waiting at the convention centre and the superdome have been orderly and just waiting for help to arrive, but how many people do you watch die in front of your eyes before you loose your mind? I keep checking the news hoping that they have done something for these people, but each time its nothing, the situation just keeps getting worse and worse. I can’t watch this stuff anymore. Why are these people not getting help? What the hell is taking so long? How many more people are going to have to die?
I saw one story where a family who had been wandering around for days trying to get information about where to go, sleeping on the streets at night, finally in desperation stole a car, even piling another family in with them. The cops pulled the car over and arrested the father. They’re pulling the family out of the car and this tiny little toddler with no shoes and in nothing but a dipper gets out. The mother is begging the cops to just let them leave town. They have her husband in handcuffs. He’s just trying to save his family. Why couldn’t they just let them go? Where is the basic human compassion there?
I saw another story of this hysterical mother demonstrating for the camera how her little boy in her arms was not waking up, not responding. You could tell this little boy was probably going to die. It’s the sickest thing I’ve ever seen the way these people have been left for dead. I don’t believe for a second the situation couldn’t be better.
I’m sorry if I’ve offended anyone. I have no political position I’m trying to advance here. It’s just making me so sad and I can’t get these suffering people out of my mind. I can’t even sleep thinking about them.
now i am reading a report that is saying people are being raped, beaten, shot at, and people killing each other. why. if in such a bad situation, why would they make it worse for themselves.
Animals only behave for the sake of survival. They are not petty like humans. To use the word “animal” as a perjorative description of people is a gross misnomer.
Alright, I’m not interested in trying to say what should or shouldn’t have been done during this disaster or who’s fault it is. Maybe we can look ahead and figure out what should be done in the future?
[P.S. If you haven’t donated, go do that before bitching about anything!]
However, it seems to me that agencies responsible for handling disasters should have an ability to spot an impending disaster and then pre-ship thousands of pallets of food, water, first aid kits and perhaps blankets to pre-identified semi-secure locations for later distribution.
To try and stay apolitical, consider California. Some day the big one will hit. If you want to be prepared for an emergency, responsible agencies should have supplies stockpiled several hours away from the danger zone. They should have the authority to pre-ship material or pre-activate personnel for semi-predictable situations. Yes, it means money will be wasted at times.
Does that make sense? The biggies are food, drink and not freezing to death right? I’d imagine sanitation is another big one, but it’s much more difficult to stockpile a solution for that one - though not impossible.
Should, in the future, homeland security worry about more than just prevention of terrorist attacks, but also worry about disaster preparedness, in the event of massive attack or natural disaster, or is this area already looked after appropriately?
Maybe this needs a new thread?
[quote]mindeffer01 wrote:
What do you guys think should have happened? The pres. snaps his fingers and the disaster management fairies appear and make nicey nice? It’s a freakin disaster for God’s sake. Mobilizing thousands of people and all of the necessary resources doesn’t just happen immediately. Comparing it to 9/11 isn’t entirely fair either. In that event, the damage was confined to a few blocks, not a couple hundred square miles.
As far as the put up or shut up tough talk crowd goes, Are you there yet? What are you doing on an internet chat thread? You could be on your way there. [/quote]
he’s taking a long damn time to organize relief efforts, I’ll tell you that.
And you’re telling me to get there? Honey, I’m waiting on friends FROM there to come stay with us and we’re donating what we can, when we can. Besides that, I have a 3 yr old, a 5 yr old, and just miscarried, birthed a dead baby, in case you’re unaware of what a miscarriage really is.
I’m doing the best I can from where I am.
JPB, nicely done! Excellent post.
My husband wants to know why they can get news reporters in, but no refugees out.
[quote]WhiteLable412 wrote:
now i am reading a report that is saying people are being raped, beaten, shot at, and people killing each other. why. if in such a bad situation, why would they make it worse for themselves.[/quote]
Thanks for getting us back on topic maybe, which was…why the looting and lawlessness???
Its called EVIL!!..and if you don’t think evil is real, put yourself in the situation of someone who is raped…beaten…robbed or shot and then ask yourself how you would feel about the actions of the perps…Good…or evil???
If there is evil…then there is also good. The anti-religous may not want to admit either exists, but it is certainly evident in the current events down there. Its hard to imagine “God fearing” people commmiting these acts, but not hard at all to see “God haters” doing this.
Prof, you have a good point as far as the lack of preparation or plan goes, but what people are failing to acknowledge is that in situations like this, or a biological attack, or any other catastrophe, there is going to be a huge number of people that are just plain old fucked, and there is no imediate remedy. A plan can be in place that takes in to account every possable scenario to the letter,but when you have an entire region completely devestated, including the emergency response resources, there just isn’t much that can be done very quickly.
I mean realisticaly, if Pittsburgh gets chemicaly attacked tomorrow, the only preparation I see coming in handy is allready being at peace with the fact that I will be fucked. There is nowhere to go but up from there.
Goth, I wasn’t directing that personaly at you, sorry you identified it as such. You should feel good knowing that you are doing something to help aleviate some suffering.
But seriously, since you seem prety outspoken about it, why don’t you give us a plan that you think would have sped relief to these victims, including the number of people needed, the equipment and supplies, where they are, and how to get them to where they need to be. That way if this ever happens again, everything will be in order and can be done immediately.
[quote]mindeffer01 wrote:
Goth, I wasn’t directing that personaly at you, sorry you identified it as such. [/quote]
It’s not been a good week for me and then everyone is under stress from Katrina, be it missing loved ones or just concern for strangers.
[quote]
But seriously, since you seem prety outspoken about it, why don’t you give us a plan that you think would have sped relief to these victims, including the number of people needed, the equipment and supplies, where they are, and how to get them to where they need to be. That way if this ever happens again, everything will be in order and can be done immediately.[/quote]
no point in sitting here thinking about the “should have’s” when we really need to be thinking of the “let’s do” side of it.
This could have been more organized from the get-go. The pres needs to organize relief efforts instead of just talking about it. It’s been 5 days now. Those ppl are dying for NO REASON. Now, I understand they’re looting and trying to break down doors and stuff. The Nat’l Guard and police and whoever need to start rationing stuff out. Dead ppl should be piled over there. Ppl, make note of who your dead are. Living ppl should be over here. Families stay close, don’t lose track of each other. Trash needs it’s own pile. The authorities need to ration out water, then food. Equal portions to each individual. Mothers who can breastfeed, SHOULD. Their own babies and any out of formula.
It’s hot, it stinks, everyone’s filthy and needs to use the bathroom. Let’s calmly take ppl by rows of families to the busses (get more damn busses!), load 'em up, ship 'em out. Families ON THE SAME BUS to the SAME CITY.
YES, it can happen. If someone freaking organizes it.
its not about what should have been done, why no one did anything, and whose fault it was. What the piont is is that people should not be killing, raping, stealing from each other after such a disaster. the storm put the whole area in a big pile of shit. the way people are behaving is just throwing more and more shit on top of the pile.
[quote]WhiteLable412 wrote:
its not about what should have been done, why no one did anything, and whose fault it was. What the piont is is that people should not be killing, raping, stealing from each other after such a disaster. the storm put the whole area in a big pile of shit. the way people are behaving is just throwing more and more shit on top of the pile. [/quote]
Have you ever been in a situation close to this? I would LOVE to see how orderly you would be if you hadn’t eaten in days, hadn’t bathed in nearly a week and had people dying all around you. I would love to see how you wouldn’t try to get into a store and get something to eat.
The latest stories coming out are that most of those people are being orderly. The majority have waited patiently for help that hasn’t come yet. You have the nerve to bitch about the few that are causing problems? That takes highest priority in your mind?
[quote]rainjack wrote:
For a person that hates Jesus and the whole christianity thing so much - you certainly like to wear your judges robe an awful lot. But that’s fine with me - judge all you want. Your judgement holds no sway with me.[/quote]
Hates Jesus? Oh, tex, that’s classic. I never said I hated Jesus. I like Jesus. I think he had a lot of great things to say.
My problem is with people who call themselves Christians, but don’t act it.
[quote]
But it is certainly a nice straw-man diversion ffrom the actual topic at hand. Bravo. [/quote]
I’m sorry, what was I straw-manning from? The topic was looting. I’m against it.
[quote]
What is pissing me off is the fact that your criticisms are doing absolutely no good right now. [/quote]
Ahhh, unlike your thoughtful missives.
Btw, examining a present situation and discussing what has gone wrong is often a very good way to plan for the future. It’s not an attack on your president… though it might well turn into that. I suspect his dismal performance over the last few days may well usher in a very, very long lame duck period for GWB.
[quote]PtrDR wrote:
WhiteLable412 wrote:
now i am reading a report that is saying people are being raped, beaten, shot at, and people killing each other. why. if in such a bad situation, why would they make it worse for themselves.
Thanks for getting us back on topic maybe, which was…why the looting and lawlessness???
Its called EVIL!!..and if you don’t think evil is real, put yourself in the situation of someone who is raped…beaten…robbed or shot and then ask yourself how you would feel about the actions of the perps…Good…or evil???
If there is evil…then there is also good. The anti-religous may not want to admit either exists, but it is certainly evident in the current events down there. Its hard to imagine “God fearing” people commmiting these acts, but not hard at all to see “God haters” doing this.[/quote]
Not at all over here, us Godfearing Protestants put paid to 50.000 witches some time ago, while equally God-fearing Cathilics limited themselves to 5000 heretics. God-fearing Orthodox convinced many of the Jews of Russia to move to the US in the 19th century. Hell, even OBL sees himself as divinely inspired. This stuff is in all of us and very close to the surface. The frightful thing is that we have no trouble accomodating it with deep faith. How many in a 1920’s lynch-mod were not comfortable showing up in a Church the following day?
Please note that this is not an anti-relgion rant, but an observation on the weakness of man.
[quote]These state and local leaders are incompetent, stupid, mostly uneducated political hacks . . . but that’s the Big Easy.
[/quote]
Let’s not forget “corrupt.” The town is legendary for that.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
There is NOTHING that could have been done to prevent this tragedy. Not the President. Not FEMA. Not the entire Congressional Black Caucus.
[/quote]
Congretional Black Caucus? Niiice touch there, tex.
Meanwhile, this is from the dailykos.com blog/website:
According to the New Orleans Times-Picayune, June 8, 2004, money earmarked for shoring up levees and pumps was diverted by this administration to the war against terror.
“It appears that the money has been moved in the president’s budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that’s the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can’t be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us.” – Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana;
From the same blog:
Louisiana National Guard Equipment in Iraq
The war in Iraq may also play a role in the recovery and cleanup of the hurricane. Earlier this month the Louisiana National Guard publicly complained that too much of its equipment was in Iraq. The local ABC news affiliate reported dozens of high water vehicles, Humvees, refuelers and generators are now abroad.
And this tidbit from the Houston Chronicle from 2001.
KEEPING ITS HEAD ABOVE WATER
New Orleans faces doomsday scenario
By ERIC BERGER
New Orleans is sinking.
And its main buffer from a hurricane, the protective Mississippi River delta, is quickly eroding away, leaving the historic city perilously close to disaster.
So vulnerable, in fact, that earlier this year the Federal Emergency Management Agency ranked the potential damage to New Orleans as among the three likeliest, most castastrophic disasters facing this country.
The other two? A massive earthquake in San Francisco, and, almost prophetically, a terrorist attack on New York City.
The New Orleans hurricane scenario may be the deadliest of all.
In the face of an approaching storm, scientists say, the city’s less-than-adequate evacuation routes would strand 250,000 people or more, and probably kill one of 10 left behind as the city drowned under 20 feet of water. Thousands of refugees could land in Houston.
Economically, the toll would be shattering…
http://www.hurricane.lsu.edu/_in_the_news/houston.htm
I guess it’s kind of like a whole “Bin Laden Determined to Attack in the U.S.” Nobody could have seen that coming or prevented it either. And we should all just rally around the flag and shut our goshdurn mouths.
There is one question that I would like to raise:
Did the wide availability of guns to private citizens (even in shops to be broken into) help looters to become a greater threat?
I would think that if it’s the authorities only who were armed, it might be easier to demonstrate the necessary strength to uphold public order.
Any thoughts?
[quote]makkun wrote:
There is one question that I would like to raise:
Did the wide availability of guns to private citizens (even in shops to be broken into) help looters to become a greater threat?
I would think that if it’s the authorities only who were armed, it might be easier to demonstrate the necessary strength to uphold public order.
Any thoughts?[/quote]
It’s a moot question. The cat is out of the bag in that regard. There are so many guns floating around in private hands in the US that hardcore regulation or an outright ban would be completely unfeasible.